Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[Steely Dan]

"Meanwhile, Kyiv’s determination to defeat the rebels will not only be strengthened, it is likely to be blessed by the West. It’s not inconceivable that we will not only see Western MREs (meals, easy to eat) and body armor being deployed, but even Western leal weapons, trainers and even special forces.

Without Moscow’s support, the insurgency cannot last for that long. That is not to say that when it goes down, it will go down easy. If anything, the opposite is true as they may no longer have the option of finding sanctuary in Russia. Fighters with their backs to the wall are always dangerous.


Read more: http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/reasons-why-malaysian-airlines-mh17-was-probably-shot-down-by-a-rebel-missile-and-why-this-mean-the-rebels-have-lost/#ixzz37nFvdgOS"

BBM

O/T Just something I saw on the History Channel many months ago about the Revolutionary war. A general was greatly outnumbered by British troops so he lined his men up, literally against a wall. This not only kept them from running away, but also made them fight harder. He said after the battle that he knew men fighting for their very lives will fight harder. IIRC.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Here is a screencap of the deleted posts where Igor Girkin, aka Strelkov claimed victory before deleting it. ​http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ader-claimed-responsibility-for-downing-mh17/



“In the vicinity of Torez, we just downed a plane, an AN-26. It is lying somewhere in the Progress Mine. We have issued warnings not to fly in our airspace. We have video confirming. The bird fell on a waste heap. Residential areas were not hit. Civilians were not injured.”

He included two videos of the falling plane, this was done before media reports emerged that the plane was civilian.

 

[geevee]

I did see a photo of a pile earlier but it was hours ago. I want to say it was perhaps 30-40 of them.

I saw that photo too and wondered why there were so many grouped together, seemingly unmarred.

 

[Amee]

Russian news footage taken from the crash site shows passports on the ground among the wreckage of MH17

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Airlines-MH17-shot-Ukraine.html#ixzz37nJCzL59

 

[Steely Dan]

I also can't believe that people are just walking all over the crash site on some of the videos I've seen ( some I wish I could "unsee" ) Just taking pictures & video, not wearing any protective gear etc.

I feel so sorry for the families who's pics of their deceased loved ones being slashed all over the internet. Humans disgust me sometimes :-(

Somebody said earlier that Fox News was showing pictures of the crash site with bodies. I tried to avoid looking at any pictures. Someone posted a link and the first several pictures show no bodies, unfortunately the last one did. I was disgusted and flipped away from it as fast as I could. Then I scrolled back and stared at it just wondering why was that guy there? I mean there are so many good people in the world. I believe they outnumber the bad heavily and yet we can't seem to get the drive to take these responsibilities and ignore them. JMO I'm just as guilty as everyone else. :sigh:

 

[ElleElle]

No .. they wouldn't have been taken by staff, they would have been in online baggage or like you said your purse. They were filmed at the crash site by people who were looking for documentation of who was onboard the plane. All you'd have to do is look for handbags / small online bags and look for the passports inside if you were on the scene.

Great. With the looting and now possible identity theft since the area is not secured. *inside voice*

 

[keyleigh]

BBM ~ Thank you Gitana. As much as my mind does mental gymnastics, MAS either has bad luck, negligence, or a combination of both.

I had a knee/jerk reaction earlier, but now I can think about this in a logical manner, and this makes sense.

Me too. Initial reaction was that it was connected. That was as it was breaking news here at 3 am. Now, no connection. Just incredibly bad luck.

 

[ElleElle]

Somebody said earlier that Fox News was showing pictures of the crash site with bodies. I tried to avoid looking at any pictures. Someone posted a link and the first several pictures show no bodies, unfortunately the last one did. I was disgusted and flipped away from it as fast as I could. Then I scrolled back and stared at it just wondering why was that guy there? I mean there are so many good people in the world. I believe they outnumber the bad heavily and yet we can't seem to get the drive to take these responsibilities and ignore them. JMO I'm just as guilty as everyone else. :sigh:

Since gore does not bother me, I was amazed on how the deceased were clean and intact. I really, really hope it was a quick one for those poor souls. :angel:

 

[zwiebel]

'Authorities have updated the death toll to 298 people killed when Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, near the Russian border, reportedly to include three infants not counted earlier.
That number includes people from: Netherlands 154, Malaysia 43 (including 15 crew & 2 infants), Australia 27, Indonesia 12 (including 1 infant), United Kingdom 9, Germany 4, Belgium 4, Philippines 3, Canada 1, New Zealand 1. There are still 40 unverified nationalities.'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-ukraine-live#block-53c867d1e4b01dcef5b4b5a9

The 3 babies were not included earlier as they didn't have their own seats, so were missed.

 

[gngr~snap]

Great. With the looting and not possible identity theft since the area is not secured. *inside voice*

I think there is looting too. I believe they were told to find all the passports that they could. They will need them to identify a few of the people. There were reports that passports were landing on the roofs of houses. The reporter in the scene right now says that absolutely no one is looting the bodies. He says some are turned inside out, they aren't going through their pockets or taking things from the bodies.
Umm? Cause they did that yesterday?? I saw the pictures. Some people didn't even have any clothes on. They were either burned off or blown off. I am pretty sure there were a few people that were not touched. It was clear to me they must have fallen/traveled a good distance and hit really hard. I am confident these people I am referring to were not conscious when they were falling.
Like someone else said I didn't see any O2 masks or tubing anywhere! Did it melt? I thought I'd see someone wearing one, but no.

All posts are MOO.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This is interesting .. you can see a bit of the two video's in this image of the original post ..

Do you all think this is the one on the left?

Trees to left match preview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH8qr24LDQ0

Couldn't find the second one anywhere .. seems a shame they weren't captured, or maybe they'll come up again later on.

 

[jjenny]

Here is a screencap of the deleted posts where Igor Girkin, aka Strelkov claimed victory before deleting it. ​http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ader-claimed-responsibility-for-downing-mh17/

View attachment 55066

“In the vicinity of Torez, we just downed a plane, an AN-26. It is lying somewhere in the Progress Mine. We have issued warnings not to fly in our airspace. We have video confirming. The bird fell on a waste heap. Residential areas were not hit. Civilians were not injured.”

He included two videos of the falling plane, this was done before media reports emerged that the plane was civilian.

That's a bad translation. He doesn't exactly claim "we" just downed a plane. He claims that the plain was shot down.

“In Torez An-26 was shot down, its crashes are lying somewhere near the coal mine “Progress,” read the tweet, obtained by FoxNews.com and translated into English. "We have warned everyone: do not fly in our skies.”
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/18/malaysia-airlines-passenger-jet-shot-down-over-ukraine/

 

[Amee]

2:25pm: Malaysia's The Star news website reports that an entire family perished on board the ill-fated Flight MH17.

The family of six were from Kuching, and were on their way back to Malaysia from Kazakhstan, transiting via Amsterdam.

Tambi Jiee, 49, from Kampung Gobielt, was with his wife Ariza Ghazalee, 47, and four children - Mohd Afif, 19, Mohd Afzal, 17, Marsha Azmeena, 15, and Mohd Afruz, 13.

The family were returning from Kazakhstan, where Tambi, a Shell employee, had been working for about three years.

Their eldest was a student at Taylor's College in Kuala Lumpur while the three other children were studying in Kazakhstan.

The family were coming back to Malaysia for good.

Ariza had taken early retirement to accompany her husband to Kazakhstan.

She was an avid social media user. Before boarding MH17, she uploaded photos of their packed bags on Facebook and Twitter.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37nQINBiE

so so sad

 

[Mrs G Norris]

That's a bad translation. He doesn't exactly claim "we" just downed a plane. He claims that the plain was shot down.

“In Torez An-26 was shot down, its crashes are lying somewhere near the coal mine “Progress,” read the tweet, obtained by FoxNews.com and translated into English. "We have warned everyone: do not fly in our skies.”
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/18/malaysia-airlines-passenger-jet-shot-down-over-ukraine/

Come on .. what about the rest of the post with accompanying videos? Regardless, it will all come out in the next few days, I don't think we'll be waiting forever to have all the details on this one.

 

[zwiebel]

I saw video of the men (looked like civilians) who were collecting the passports here. There was also a soldier who opened a passport for the camera, so that it was clearly obvious what the name of that person was. Please be careful if you look at the link, some of the footage and photos are very graphic.

I was very sad to see that no-one seemed to have bags for bodies or parts. It will be really important for loved ones to have the remains of the victims brought home, even if they are only partial. But I fear it won't happen as that would need careful collection and sorting through all the burnt debris, to find them. It really didn't look as though that was happening.

http://lifenews.ru/

 

[jjenny]

Come on .. what about the rest of the post with accompanying videos?

The rest of the post? The plane was shot down, somebody videotaped it. It doesn't prove who shot it down, does it? Although he seems to imply that he did it, he doesn't claim he did it.

 

[jjenny]

I saw video of the men (looked like civilians) who were collecting the passports here. There was also a soldier who opened a passport for the camera, so that it was clearly obvious what the name of that person was. Please be careful if you look at the link, some of the footage and photos are very graphic.

I was very sad to see that no-one seemed to have bags for bodies or parts. It will be really important for loved ones to have the remains of the victims brought home, even if they are only partial. But I fear it won't happen as that would need careful collection and sorting through all the burnt debris, to find them. It really didn't look as though that was happening.

http://lifenews.ru/

These do look very clean and intact. Not sure what to make of it.

 

[MsFacetious]

It looks like rescue people are there and the area is being guarded:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live

http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/...region=lede-package&WT.nav=lede-package&_r=2&

 

[RT51]

Because it happened in a remote area, the site was not secured off the bat except by rebels. Villagers were rifling through the belongings. In the US, all cities/towns (no matter how small) are trained in how to handle a disaster such as this. (Believe me, I know as I've had to take the training) IMO, this whole investigation will be a cluster ****** due to the contamination of the site from the get go.

Also, IMO, the reason why we haven't been officially told how many Americans were on board, is because the US wants to discreetly inform family before it is announced.

And my last IMO, at 33,000 feet, once the skin of the aircraft was punctured by the missile, everyone pretty much passed away immediately, and therefore did not suffer (I can only hope!) Some of the pictures really did me in, although I am trained to handle such a scene, I haven't had to yet, and I hope I never have to!

 

[zwiebel]

This family wanted to get on the plane, but there was only one seat left, so they had to catch a later flight.

http://abc7.com/news/family-of-3-narrowly-avoids-boarding-malaysia-airlines-flight-/196820/