Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[maureen718]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/wor...ficial-says/m1sQJvByNCi7Vn5ncwEAjL/story.html
I just saw this

 

[HMSHood]

2014 is a very bad year for Malaysia Airlines.

100 Worst Aviation Disasters
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/worst100.htm

MH17 is the 8th worst, while 9/11 is the worst.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

AVIATION safety authorities in Europe and the United States had warned airlines about flying above or near the Ukraine airspace where Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down overnight.
.....

The UK’s Civil Aviation Authority posted a notice on June 14 urging carriers to avoid flying over Crimea and southern Ukraine due to safety concerns.

Airlines were asked not to fly over Crimea, the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov due to the potential for conflicting air traffic control instructions between Ukrainian and Russian authorities. “Operations are normal in all other Ukrainian FIRs [flight information regions],” however, the CAA notice added that UK airlines flying into the Dnepropetrovsk flight region, which includes Donetsk where flight MH17 went down, should “review current security/threat information”.

FGS

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-ukraine-airspace/story-fnizu68q-1226993168587

 

[jjenny]

[h=1]Pro-Russian separatist commander Igor ‘The Terrible’ Strelkov allegedly appears on mobile phone video of MH17 crash saying: ‘That was a blast’[/h]
http://www.news.com.au/world/prorus...that-was-a-blast/story-fndir2ev-1226993406156

Dead man walking.

No one actually appears on that video. All you can hear is some voices. You don't see anyone. It appears to be some sort of village and village people are talking about plane going down. So for them to be claiming it's Strelkov is absurd.

 

[mnegri1973]

I still do not understand why there are still unknowns on if US citizens were on the flight. The airline would have records of all passengers and would know their country origins. I had to show my passport when boarding for an international flight while boarding on US soil. So how can we still not know if Americans were on the plane.

I can't remember any other airline crashes were it's taken this long to find this info out.

Confused.......

~Mel


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Mrs G Norris]

No one actually appears on that video. All you can hear is some voices. You don't see anyone. It appears to be some sort of village and village people are talking about plane going down. So for them to be claiming it's Strelkov is absurd.

Lucky he boasted about it on social media too then

Shortly after the passenger plane was downed, Strelkov — seen smirking in propaganda photos — tweeted a boastful message claiming responsibility.

At the time, he apparently believed he had shot down an Antonov-26 military plane of the Ukrainian air force, saying it landed near a mine named Progress.

His chilling message read: ‘In the area Torez we just hit down An-26, it’s lying somewhere in the mine “Progress”.

“We warned you — do not fly in “our sky”. And here is the video confirmation of the “bird dropping”.

“Bird fell near the mine, the residential sector was not disturbed. Civilians are not injured.” Later as the horror became clear, the tweet was deleted.

____

From same link.

 

[gitana1]

I mistrust the coincidence stuff. Every day is the anniversary of something.

I agree. There is no reason Malaysia would be targeted by Russia or Ukraine. Malaysia and Russia seem to have pretty good relations. It seems clear this was the work of someone involved in the Ukranian/Russian crisis which has nothing to do with Malaysia. Generally, terrorists pick symbolic targets, like American airlines, because it has the name "American" in it. And Pan Am, which was the largest US international carrier for a long time. I think this was probably a matter of mistaking the plane for the enemy.

I also see no connection to the missing Malaysian flight, unless some kind of negligence on the part of the airline is to blame, such as knowingly flying a bit too close to a volatile area in this case and another form of negligence in the other case.

Coincidences do occur. All the time. I mean, math ensures that they will occur. But if negligence is part of the cause here, coincidence is out the door.

And I can guarantee you that people will be very, very wary of flying a Malaysian air flight. I wouldn't. Corruption in Malaysia is practically part of the national identity. That doesn't make me confident in any industry connected to it, especially one that has had two such catastrophic events in such a short amount of time.

 

[maureen718]

http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-plane-crash-white-house-obama-statement-2014-7

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Ukrainian Official Says 23 Americans Were Aboard Malaysia Flight MH17; Obama Still Checking as Bodies Lay Scattered on Scene

A Ukrainian official said 23 Americans were aboard Malaysia Flight MH17, reportedly shot down in the troubled Donetsk region of the Ukraine near the Russian border Thursday. President Barack Obama said, however, that the U.S. is still checking to see if any Americans were among the 295 people killed on the doomed flight.

Obama is still checking as bodies lay scattered on scene. That is par for the course, in my opinion.

ETA Link - http://www.christianpost.com/news/u...king-as-bodies-lay-scattered-on-scene-123492/

 

[jjenny]

Ukrainian Official Says 23 Americans Were Aboard Malaysia Flight MH17; Obama Still Checking as Bodies Lay Scattered on Scene

A Ukrainian official said 23 Americans were aboard Malaysia Flight MH17, reportedly shot down in the troubled Donetsk region of the Ukraine near the Russian border Thursday. President Barack Obama said, however, that the U.S. is still checking to see if any Americans were among the 295 people killed on the doomed flight.

Obama is still checking as bodies lay scattered on scene. That is par for the course, in my opinion.

They could be notifying relatives first.

 

[Amee]

2:13pm:

SMH reporter Eryk Bagshaw has spoken to aviation expert Peter Marossizeky from Aerospace Development.

Mr Marossizeky believes the missile fired at MH17 was deliberately targeted at the civilian aircraft.

Surface-to-air missiles are some of the most sophisticated in the world, and are worth millions of dollars, he said.

Typically they are restricted to military use. Flight MH17 was flying at 33,0000 feet - the SAM is one of the only missiles capable of hitting targets about 10,000 feet.

"Anything above 10,000 feet would impossible except for a sophisticated SAM," said Mr Marossizeky

"You would have to program it to lock on,” said Mr Marossizeky. "It would be highly unlikely that it would be confused with a military plane."

The transponder on the plane gives out a signature and any missile equipment that locks onto it would know that it is a civilian aircraft.
Mr Marossizeky downplayed the danger of the flight path.

"I would be surprised if it was considered a dangerous area [by the International air transport association], when you’re flying above 10,000 feet you don’t encounter anything dangerous on the ground."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37n4rR2bO

 

[ArianeEmory]

I suppose it may be too much to ask that we rise above petty partisan politics for this? There's a whole Political Pavilion for that. I understand that the political stakes here couldn't be higher, but using it as a one-off for cheap shots at the US president doesn't really advance the conversation. MOO

 

[Dr. Know?]

This is where myself as a southwest American will bow out. Lot's of news and hope there's a lot more asap. Go EU, report the news. tia

Again Rip Flight MH17. unbelievable to read about this tradgedy caused by ignorance. jmo

 

[gitana1]

Gitana, no one can blame you for being afraid, it is terrifying! But given the revelations of history: how could we have lived with ourselves as a nation if we had refused to enter WWII and then later found out the full extent of the death camps?? How could we ever again hold up our heads as a nation that proclaims its love of human rights?

Please know that I am not saying we should jump into an armed conflict at this time, but you know, I don't think, I really don't think, we can stand aside forever.

I'm with you. But we are not in the same situation as then. WWII was a just war on the allies side. We are not at war now, should do everything we can to avoid it and I fear our involvement in this can only escalate things.

This is the nuclear age and Putin is a nut. I think we need to be very careful.

 

[ElleElle]

If that tape is accurate, then it's very clear that it was an oops. They had no clue that passenger planes could be flying in that air space and assumed it to be a military plane.

Correct. But, weren't they 1000 feet above the no fly zone? Any, I mean ANY airliner could have and been in that corridor. This is NOT a coincidence in my trustful gut.

JMO

 

[Steely Dan]

So far I haven't seen anything suggesting there were any citizens from the USA on the flight, although there are 41 people who haven't been assigned a nationality.

There were 23 American passengers. http://www.businessinsider.com/us-citizens-reportedly-dead-in-malaysia-airlines-crash-2014-7

[h=1]Pro-Russian separatist commander Igor ‘The Terrible’ Strelkov allegedly appears on mobile phone video of MH17 crash saying: ‘That was a blast’[/h]
http://www.news.com.au/world/prorus...that-was-a-blast/story-fndir2ev-1226993406156

Dead man walking.

No one actually appears on that video. All you can hear is some voices. You don't see anyone. It appears to be some sort of village and village people are talking about plane going down. So for them to be claiming it's Strelkov is absurd.

Lucky he boasted about it on social media too then

Shortly after the passenger plane was downed, Strelkov — seen smirking in propaganda photos — tweeted a boastful message claiming responsibility.

At the time, he apparently believed he had shot down an Antonov-26 military plane of the Ukrainian air force, saying it landed near a mine named Progress.

His chilling message read: ‘In the area Torez we just hit down An-26, it’s lying somewhere in the mine “Progress”.

“We warned you — do not fly in “our sky”. And here is the video confirmation of the “bird dropping”.

“Bird fell near the mine, the residential sector was not disturbed. Civilians are not injured.” Later as the horror became clear, the tweet was deleted.

____

From same link.

http://www.news.com.au/world/prorus...that-was-a-blast/story-fndir2ev-1226993406156

Thanks I had copied that same part of the article, but I'll use yours.

I still think the footage needs to be more thoroughly vetted, but I'd say it's 75% that it's real.

If it's real then it backs my suspicion that it was mistaken identity. With all due respect to the families of the deceased, this may be a good thing. I posted earlier that I thought this would bring closer scrutiny to the Russia/Ukraine crisis. Now other nations are probably reporting more in depth about the Russian/Ukraine conflict. I think that might spurn the world against Russia now and make it harder for Putin to move forward.

I'm hoping that the UN sends peacekeeping forces to the border and separatist strongholds now. If that happens, it may end up saving more lives and an entire country in the long run. JMO

 

[ArianeEmory]

Sorry if repost, new to me including video footage of debris falling from smoke cloud.


http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/...region=lede-package&WT.nav=lede-package&_r=2&

 

[ElleElle]

I think the Ukrainian military plane shot down by rebels earlier this week has a lot to do with this. I think it was a mistake by separatists who thought it was Ukrainian military.

I believe Putin ordered each attack (not exactly what he wanted in this crash, but still the person who gave the orders) It's my belief that Putin was amping up the attacks on Ukrainian military to try and goad them into war. I think today's shot was supposed to be a Ukrainian military plane and mistaken identity caused it. If that's true then the order for today backfired hugely on Putin. It's brought closer scrutiny to the rebel/Russian relationship.

Russia isn't helping themselves by taking the BB and not letting anyone else look at it.

BBM ~ And when we thought Malaysia was secretive?

How can someone miss a commercial vs. military aircraft in this day and age? My other hunch is the MAS colors may have something to do with it?

Here is the supposed weapon:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/BUK_file2.jpg

 

[Steely Dan]

I suppose it may be too much to ask that we rise above petty partisan politics for this? There's a whole Political Pavilion for that. I understand that the political stakes here couldn't be higher, but using it as a one-off for cheap shots at the US president doesn't really advance the conversation. MOO

:goodpost:

 

[Minette]

I'm not, I hope no one thinks I'm using this horrible event to push any political agenda. I mean, for one thing, I don't even know what agenda I have, other than, 'terrorists suck, they can't be tolerated.' I'm scared, this stuff is scary, I hope we come down on the right side of history, I don't know if we will. How will we EVER know until later? Until then, I'll just be on the side of 'you don't shoot civilian planes out of the sky or otherwise use them for terroristic purposes.' That's all I've got.

I know the pieces fit 'cause I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame, it doesn't mean I don't desire to
Point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over.
To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication