Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[JudyBolton]

Great. With the looting and now possible identity theft since the area is not secured. *inside voice*

I actually heard someone from the NTSB saying they certainly hoped no one would try to "tamper" with the black box - try to open it - or try to examine it without knowing what they were doing as they could lose all of the information....The way people are allowed access to the site - it makes you wonder if it will be found at all....

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The number of Australian's killed just went up to 28 and there may be more, this is because permanent residents may have been travelling on passports from their country of origin

 

[RT51]

I actually heard someone from the NTSB saying they certainly hoped no one would try to "tamper" with the black box - try to open it - or try to examine it without knowing what they were doing as they could lose all of the information....The way people are allowed access to the site - it makes you wonder if it will be found at all....

Supposedly it was found and brought to Russia which is another whole issue. I think Malaysia should have gotten it as it was their aircraft. (By the way, they are orange or red, not black. Don't know where the "black" originated from.

 

[MsFacetious]

I am also anxiously waiting to find out if any families that lost people on MH370 also lost people on MH17...

 

[gitana1]

I think the Ukrainian military plane shot down by rebels earlier this week has a lot to do with this. I think it was a mistake by separatists who thought it was Ukrainian military.

I believe Putin ordered each attack (not exactly what he wanted in this crash, but still the person who gave the orders) It's my belief that Putin was amping up the attacks on Ukrainian military to try and goad them into war. I think today's shot was supposed to be a Ukrainian military plane and mistaken identity caused it. If that's true then the order for today backfired hugely on Putin. It's brought closer scrutiny to the rebel/Russian relationship.

Russia isn't helping themselves by taking the BB and not letting anyone else look at it.

100% agree with you.

"Stupid statement by Russian president saying Russia is not involved ... trying to distance himself from attack. Under Ukraine Govt ... of course it is, and Ukraine is part of Russia" ... Aussie commentary on Ch 7 news

Suggesting Putin will not be invited to next G-20 meeting.

It sickened me that the winter Oympics were hosted by Russia and now the World Cup next time around? No way.

The Russians have been arming the pro Russian separatists in Ukraine. Putin is up to his neck in this.

Yup.

Which is exactly why I think we should be more reticent about getting involved at all.

Agreed.

(Gitana, just for clarity's sake, I did say "accidentally" in my post...I'm sure you simply missed that word. I was referring to the Vincennes' accidental shooting down of an Iranian airline...and I recall something about Russia shooting down a Korean jet...both of those were deemed 'accidental', and it is possible that today's catastrophe will end up being an accident, inasmuch as it's a missed target sort of thing.

Best-
Herding Cats)

Got it. I did miss that!

Gosh! I'm not accusing him of any of that! I'm not a supporter, and I haven't really had a President I was really ALL in favor of since Clinton (and that didn't work out too well) but I'm not a member/supporter of either party. I frankly think they both suck. I'm an Independent (social liberal, financial conservative, so neither party wants me.) Nevertheless, I do think in the Presidency you have to make a choice of being more involved in domestic or international issues. I mean, that's my opinion, and you're welcome to it, but you don't have to accept it, you know? <3

I understand what you're saying.

Hearing from reporter on the scene search and rescue on the scene and do not appear to have a clue as to how to proceed.

I really hope this isn;t true. But it wouldn;t surprise me. Holland should be in on the recovery efforts and investigation, IMO.

Oh those poor families. The reporter just said there are skeletons. Why would there be skeletons so soon. Maybe some were burned? Oh my, this is just awful. jmo

I accidentally saw footage and what I saw was definitely not skeletons. I wish I could unsee what I saw.

Pro-Russian separatist commander Igor &#8216;The Terrible&#8217; Strelkov allegedly appears on mobile phone video of MH17 crash saying: &#8216;That was a blast&#8217;


http://www.news.com.au/world/prorus...that-was-a-blast/story-fndir2ev-1226993406156

Dead man walking.

Perhaps this is vicious but I hope he's a dead man walking. Disgusting. I;m so angry.

I need a hug.

:grouphug:

Somebody said earlier that Fox News was showing pictures of the crash site with bodies. I tried to avoid looking at any pictures. Someone posted a link and the first several pictures show no bodies, unfortunately the last one did. I was disgusted and flipped away from it as fast as I could. Then I scrolled back and stared at it just wondering why was that guy there? I mean there are so many good people in the world. I believe they outnumber the bad heavily and yet we can't seem to get the drive to take these responsibilities and ignore them. JMO I'm just as guilty as everyone else. :sigh:

Steely, you are one of the coolest people I know.

These do look very clean and intact. Not sure what to make of it.

I think the people were blown out of the sky and fell to their deaths. What I saw looked like severe car accident victims. Just mangled with no burning. That may be because many were thrown clear, I;m sure, of the burning parts of the wreckage. Passports are paper so they would not be destroyed by a fall. Those that were catapulted by the force of the explosion, away from the burning wreckage, and that weren't subsumed by the main part of the explosion, could easily remain clean and intact.

 

[gitana1]

This family wanted to get on the plane, but there was only one seat left, so they had to catch a later flight.

http://abc7.com/news/family-of-3-narrowly-avoids-boarding-malaysia-airlines-flight-/196820/

They are very lucky. I hate it though, when people who survive such a tragedy say it;s because God was watching over them. What about the rest of the passengers? The babies on that plane? Was God not watching over them?

In other news, Malaysian Air is going to go bankrupt now, I think. They are going to lose so much business.

 

[kimi_SFC]

I am also anxiously waiting to find out if any families that lost people on MH370 also lost people on MH17...

:hug:

raying:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SouthAussie]

Prime Minister just having another presser ... he is not accepting that Russia has no blame in this. Russian ambassador has tried to blame Ukraine, the Ukraine is trying to blame Russia. AFP (Australian Federal Police) enroute to the area. Seems that this is going to be bigger than Ben-Hur.

PM: There can be no excuses, no buck-passing, no blame-shifting. There has to be absolute full cooperation with an impartial inquiry #MH17

Tony Abbott says Russian ambassador's initial response to #mh17 was 'deeply, deeply unsatisfactory'

PM Abbott: This is not an accident, it is a crime #MH17

http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...raine-near-russian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html

 

[newone]

In other news, Malaysian Air is going to go bankrupt now, I think. They are going to lose so much business.

snipped by me

I agree


other Asian route carriers had avoided Ukraine completely since March this year.


"South Korea's two main airlines, Korean Air and Asiana, as well as Australia's Qantas and Taiwan's China Airlines said they had all rerouted flights from as early as the beginning of March when Russian troops moved into Crimea."

- See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/as...iers-quit-ukraine-airspa#sthash.Uwcvwqsf.dpuf

 

[MsFacetious]

I wish they'd stop calling it a "plane crash."
It wasn't a plane crash, it was a terrorist attack. :twocents:

 

[SouthAussie]

Australian freelance journalist Denjen Doroschenko visited the scene of the crash and says separatists were patrolling the site, where bodies lay in a field among strewn luggage and wreckage from the plane. He said there was no sign of investigators.

"(There are) Ukrainians and the separatists who are walking around with guns trying to control the whole situation, but they're just sitting around and they've just done an emu parade through the field," he told ABC News 24.

"Every time they see a body they put a white flag on it and they keep on walking.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37npsodE9

 

[Brightbird]

Prime Minister just having another presser ... he is not accepting that Russia has no blame in this. Russian ambassador has tried to blame Ukraine, the Ukraine is trying to blame Russia. AFP (Australian Federal Police) enroute to the area. Seems that this is going to be bigger than Ben-Hur.

I'm actually a bit uncomfortable that Abbott is using such strong language and blaming Russia all ready. No one else seems to be, not so directly, or I've missed it if they are.

 

[zwiebel]

Just hearing on BBC radio news that Putin's telephoned the Dutch Prime Minister and called for 'a thorough and unbiased investigation'.

There was also an interview with a Ukrainian Gov minister who said they want to do everything they can but the area is controlled by Russia, and they can't get in there. His phone was ringing off the hook during the interview, so I didn't catch his name.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm actually a bit uncomfortable that Abbott is using such strong language and blaming Russia all ready. No one else seems to be, not so directly, or I've missed it if they are.

Yes, he is definitely drawing a line in the sand. Very strong words ... Russian-backed rebels using Russian weapons ... and he has warned Russia that they must not hinder investigations.

 

[gngr~snap]

[ORIGINAL] Last Video Footage Taken On Flight MH1…: http://youtu.be/mhJHfP3WOhA

Last footage of flight before it took off.
Posted to Instagram with a message...
"In the name of God ... feeling a bit nervous."

 

[gngr~snap]

Australian freelance journalist Denjen Doroschenko visited the scene of the crash and says separatists were patrolling the site, where bodies lay in a field among strewn luggage and wreckage from the plane. He said there was no sign of investigators.

"(There are) Ukrainians and the separatists who are walking around with guns trying to control the whole situation, but they're just sitting around and they've just done an emu parade through the field," he told ABC News 24.

"Every time they see a body they put a white flag on it and they keep on walking.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37npsodE9

Form your link, 5:37am
A central Queensland family has been hit by both Malaysia Airlines' tragedies this year, reports
SMH Crime Editor Nick Ralston.
http://m.smh.com.au/world/malaysia-...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37npsodE9

 

[zwiebel]

I think the call from Putin may have been because the Dutch have just issued this statement:

'Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans has insisted that Dutch forensics teams should have unrestricted and safe access to the site in East Ukraine where Malaysian air flight MH 17 crashed yesterday.'

'A press release from Foreign Affairs said Timmermans has offered the services of the Dutch National Team Forensic Research LTFO....He and his Ukrainian counterpart Pavlo Klimkin (Foreign Affairs) have agreed that rescue workers should have unhindered access and that the site should remain intact for the investigation'

http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/07/18/dutch-want-unrestricted-access-crash-site/

King Willem-Alexander has issued a short statement via the Netherlands embassy in Washington.

http://dc.the-netherlands.org/news/2014/07/statement-king-willem-alexander.html

 

[gngr~snap]

I am also anxiously waiting to find out if any families that lost people on MH370 also lost people on MH17...

Irene and George Burrows, from Biloela, are still mourning their son Rodney and his wifeMary who were on Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, which disappeared without trace over the southern Indian Ocean in March.

They are now grieving for another family member with their step-granddaughter Maree Rizk and her husband Albert from Sunbury near Melbourne among the Australians on flight MH17.
http://m.smh.com.au/world/malaysia-...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37npsodE9

 

[AlwaysShocked]

The best on-site reports are coming from an American-born independent journalist name Noah Sneider who is there on the ground and reporting via telephone to CNN. He sounds fairly young and is obviously not experienced at reporting from a disaster site. Last night his voice was quaking with emotion as he spoke.

This evening he sounded more composed. Probably now over the initial shock of it. He said he slept in his vehicle alongside the road last night because he thought if he left the scene he would never get back in.

What he is reporting is that this is in a very isolated area. It is just a field in a rural area. Sounds similar to the Flight 93 plane from 9/11 in it being kind of out in the middle of nowhere. But the big difference is that even out in the middle of nowhere here in the U.S. we have the resources to have fire departments, ambulances, search and rescue, etc. And it does not take us long to mobilize in the event of a disaster.

He said the rebels are the ones "in charge" at the site - at least in terms of guarding the road, but there is nothing organized as to guarding a perimeter or doing a grid search or any of that kind of thing. He said people are just tramping around. That local citizens are coming to help. That bodies and body parts are being put under a white tent. That a stick with a white piece of cloth on it is being placed where a body or body part was located.

Somebody fired the missile at the plane. Either the Ukranian rebel forces or the Soviet military. A U.S. military commentator on CCNN has stated that you don't just "fire off" one of these tracking missiles, that it takes a highly trained team to do it. And that such training "would not take just a week".

Mr. Putin will attempt to distance himself from this incident, of course. Whether he can or cannot remains to be seen.

And just to set the record straight: The Korean passenger plane that was shot down in 1983 was no accident. It was deliberately shot down by a Russian fighter jet that had been scrambled when the plane unknowingly came into Russian air space. The Russians began following it and upon orders from higher up it was shot down. This was acknowledged by the Russians long after the fact, not at the time. At the time they denied everything.

 

[2rose]

Supposedly it was found and brought to Russia which is another whole issue. I think Malaysia should have gotten it as it was their aircraft.

I think there might be some confusion about the black box. Lately there have been 3 downed planes in the Ukraine. I think that the black box which was sent to Russia might have been from the earlier cargo plane hit by a missle.