Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

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Russia Today is reporting an Israeli citizen is also among the victims. First report I've seen of that. They are linking this FB with the notification but I'm not on FB so can't see if that's correct.

https://www.facebook.com/GraceGospelEurope

'Russian airlines have decided to stop regular flights to eastern Ukrainian cities of Dnepropetrovsk and Odessa on July 18-20, reports Russia’s Air Service. The flights were stopped due to the recent downing of a Malaysian plane over Ukraine.'

Also reporting 95 rescuers and 18 vehicles now working to recover remains. They have linked to the last video shot of passengers on the aircraft.

http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/

*Just heard on BBC radio a family with a 3 and 5 year old were among the victims. :(
 
I am betting both the US and Australia know exactly who fired it. Let's hope the US doesn't "lose" the infomation during a hard drive crash. Putin will deny as usual. Our "leader" was busy getting a hamburger in Deleware.

When asked by Charlie Rose about responding to potential Russian involvement in the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, Hillary Clinton shifted the focus to Europe. The former Secretary of State laid out a three-step approach for European action, including tougher sanctions.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/hilla...ntial-russian-involvement-in-malaysian-crash/

Thanks SA for the Aussie news & Z- the European, and everyone providing information from all over! Always interesting.:loveyou:
 
Russia Today is reporting an Israeli citizen is also among the victims. First report I've seen of that. They are linking this FB with the notification but I'm not on FB so can't see if that's correct.

https://www.facebook.com/GraceGospelEurope

'Russian airlines have decided to stop regular flights to eastern Ukrainian cities of Dnepropetrovsk and Odessa on July 18-20, reports Russia’s Air Service. The flights were stopped due to the recent downing of a Malaysian plane over Ukraine.'

Also reporting 95 rescuers and 18 vehicles now working to recover remains. They have linked to the last video shot of passengers on the aircraft.

http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/

*Just heard on BBC radio a family with a 3 and 5 year old were among the victims. :(
https://m.facebook.com/GraceGospelEurope?_rdr

"they say life is short - yes it is true - today 17-7-2014 our son Ithamar was in the crashed malaysia airlines"

This is the Facebook for the father of:

Ithamar Dovnon - 27yrs
 
One of the stewardeses who was supposed to work the MH370 trip
swapped shifts with a co-worker who wanted to go to Beijing ...
so the co-worker disappeared with MH370.

The surviving stewardesss had a husband Sanjid Singh
who was also a flight attendant with Malaysia Airlines.
In order to return home, he swapped shifts to get on MH17 & thus perished.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ines-flight-mh17/story-fniztvng-1226993206649
 
One of the stewardeses who was supposed to work the MH370 trip
swapped shifts with a co-worker who wanted to go to Beijing ...
so the co-worker disappeared with MH370.

The surviving stewardesss had a husband Sanjid Singh
who was also a flight attendant with Malaysia Airlines.
In order to return home, he swapped shifts to get on MH17 & thus perished.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ines-flight-mh17/story-fniztvng-1226993206649


Whoa! Bless her heart!
[emoji102]
 
I am betting both the US and Australia know exactly who fired it. Let's hope the US doesn't "lose" the infomation during a hard drive crash. Putin will deny as usual. Our "leader" was busy getting a hamburger in Deleware

Thanks SA for the Aussie news & Z- the European, and everyone providing information from all over! Always interesting.:loveyou:

Seriously? You think the president is just fooling around having fun and doesn't care about this? Come on, people. That's just not reasonable. No president would act that way and none are able to. Being president is an all time consuming, 24 hour a day job. There is no time off. They are always on call, always being briefed and always making decisions during waking hours. All of them. Even the ones we didn't vote for.

These aren't teenaged fast food workers who get to that level of government. Only super hard workers get there.
 
Initial reports suggesting a missile fired by pro-Russian separatists downed the plane might have been denied by the rebels.

But the Daily Mail carries the transcript of a YouTube video on which, it says, the men "cheered the destruction of what they thought was a military aircraft". The Guardian details another audio recording during which two separatists appear to realise their error, with one commenting: "They found the first body. It's a civilian. I mean, it's definitely a civilian aircraft."

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-the-papers-28360336

_76342438_wreckage.jpg
 
I haven't read through the whole thread, but I did see someone mention coincidences with anniversaries. Yesterday was also the 96th anniversary of the murder of Tsar Nicholas II and his family. I'm sure it is just a coincidence, but I immediately thought of it when I heard about the crash. (History buff here.)
 
The Netherlands have lost at least 173 people in this crash and their PM is totally invisible.
He spoke with Putin by phone, and he says the same as Putin: investigation is going to be complicated and should be objective blablabla.
Shame on you, Mark Rutte. You are a disgrace to your country and unfit to lead!

173 people from Holland lost, all civilized nations are demanding JUSTICE but has anyone heard anything from Mark Rutte???

The Dutch Government has a long history of letting commercial interests and international trade prevail over literally everything.
 
Apologies for my failure to read the thread as it has developed - I may be raising things that have already been said...


My first impressions:

I think there is more to this than is being reported - There are many procedures and basic operating expectations/requirements that have either been completely neglected and/or ignored for this to have happend. That being said, whilst I don't discount the possibility that someone handed a complete idiot the keys to one of the worlds most highly capable SAM systems without even questioning the Vodka on his breath before signing off, I have a hard time believing that a crew who's sole job is to operate a Surface to Air Missile system that shoots down aircraft would have failed at even the most basic of aircraft recognition checks and then go on to confirm the launch without requesting an IDENT for confirmation... especially in such a busy airspace by an aircraft that was flying 2000ft into the commercial operations lanes....

They should have had PLENTY if procedures had been followed by the moron with the itchy trigger finger with the SAM system... The transponder would have been set to say, 1200 (normal operations civillian flight) and broadcasting to all threat assessment systems (which this SAM system would have as part of its built ins) and even if there had been any confusion, question or failure of this intial identification of the aircraft in question, common sense and weapons systems procedures of operation 101 would logically ask for a confirmation of target before launch if there was any doubt at all about what they were about to shoot down.

A basic IDENT request by whoever was in charge of overseeing the battlefield and the airspace overhead would have again stopped this. And IDENT is where the 777 crew would be asked to identify as "FRIEND OR FOE" by sqawking their response confirmation ID back... and its almost inconcievable to even the most basic of reasoning that they have failed to do this... another failsafe completely ignored or not even conidered...

So those two basic checks on their own should have stopped this happening... then there is the question of why someone who was operating a surface to air missile system of that level of capability even passed his basic aircraft recognition test before he was handed the keys... *advertiser censored*... its pretty easy to break this down and see why this is pretty important... you operate a surface to air missile system... your sole job and requirement is to shoot down aircraft... It probably stands to reason that you brush up on your ID skills so you know what your aiming at.... and learn to count to at least 4... because it would have been clearly visable to anyone who had been to Spec Savers that the contrails of a 777 are developing from two engines, unlike the Antonov they are claiming, which has 4 engines.

Then there was the altitude they were flying at... 2000ft above the hard deck for commercial airliners (so they were in the approved safe zone) and crusing at a constand speed with no directional changes... and whilst I bet the muppet who pressed the big red button and took on the burden of ending 240 or so innocent human lives is probably sitting there this evening saying to himself "*advertiser censored*... shoulda gone to Spec Savers!", its all a bit suspect to me that without even going into the detailed safe engagement procedures that should/MUST be followed, one could now see how unlikely, almost impossible an accidental shoot down would be.

The MAL crew and passengers would have had zero warning without the aforementioned procedures and comminications. They would have been watching their in flight movie on one of those ****** old back of headrest screens and chowing down a second round of Chicken Satay one second and then gone the next... the exposive decompression of the cabin at that altitude would have sucked the air from their lungs and knocked em out cold in less than half a second.... there are no threat warning systems fitted to most commercial airliners...
 
I haven't read through the whole thread, but I did see someone mention coincidences with anniversaries. Yesterday was also the 96th anniversary of the murder of Tsar Nicholas II and his family. I'm sure it is just a coincidence, but I immediately thought of it when I heard about the crash. (History buff here.)


very interesting coincidence -- thanks for that your interest in history will be an asset here

welcome to WS

:welcome6:[
 
On a side note - I'm waiting for the conspiracy theories to emerge that this was the planned "disposal" of the 777-200 airframe (MRO) that was previously flown as MH370 *rolls eyes*:drumroll:
 
I have no proof for this but I live quite near to an airbase in the UK which has a significant population of US service people and families. I feel over the last 24 hours that there has been a significant increase in military aircraft activity which I can see (in the sky) and hear from my house.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Apologies for my failure to read the thread as it has developed - I may be raising things that have already been said...


My first impressions:

I think there is more to this than is being reported - There are many procedures and basic operating expectations/requirements that have either been completely neglected and/or ignored for this to have happend. That being said, whilst I don't discount the possibility that someone handed a complete idiot the keys to one of the worlds most highly capable SAM systems without even questioning the Vodka on his breath before signing off, I have a hard time believing that a crew who's sole job is to operate a Surface to Air Missile system that shoots down aircraft would have failed at even the most basic of aircraft recognition checks and then go on to confirm the launch without requesting an IDENT for confirmation... especially in such a busy airspace by an aircraft that was flying 2000ft into the commercial operations lanes....

They should have had PLENTY if procedures had been followed by the moron with the itchy trigger finger with the SAM system... The transponder would have been set to say, 1200 (normal operations civillian flight) and broadcasting to all threat assessment systems (which this SAM system would have as part of its built ins) and even if there had been any confusion, question or failure of this intial identification of the aircraft in question, common sense and weapons systems procedures of operation 101 would logically ask for a confirmation of target before launch if there was any doubt at all about what they were about to shoot down.

A basic IDENT request by whoever was in charge of overseeing the battlefield and the airspace overhead would have again stopped this. And IDENT is where the 777 crew would be asked to identify as "FRIEND OR FOE" by sqawking their response confirmation ID back... and its almost inconcievable to even the most basic of reasoning that they have failed to do this... another failsafe completely ignored or not even conidered...

So those two basic checks on their own should have stopped this happening... then there is the question of why someone who was operating a surface to air missile system of that level of capability even passed his basic aircraft recognition test before he was handed the keys... *advertiser censored*... its pretty easy to break this down and see why this is pretty important... you operate a surface to air missile system... your sole job and requirement is to shoot down aircraft... It probably stands to reason that you brush up on your ID skills so you know what your aiming at.... and learn to count to at least 4... because it would have been clearly visable to anyone who had been to Spec Savers that the contrails of a 777 are developing from two engines, unlike the Antonov they are claiming, which has 4 engines.

Then there was the altitude they were flying at... 2000ft above the hard deck for commercial airliners (so they were in the approved safe zone) and crusing at a constand speed with no directional changes... and whilst I bet the muppet who pressed the big red button and took on the burden of ending 240 or so innocent human lives is probably sitting there this evening saying to himself "*advertiser censored*... shoulda gone to Spec Savers!", its all a bit suspect to me that without even going into the detailed safe engagement procedures that should/MUST be followed, one could now see how unlikely, almost impossible an accidental shoot down would be.

The MAL crew and passengers would have had zero warning without the aforementioned procedures and comminications. They would have been watching their in flight movie on one of those ****** old back of headrest screens and chowing down a second round of Chicken Satay one second and then gone the next... the exposive decompression of the cabin at that altitude would have sucked the air from their lungs and knocked em out cold in less than half a second.... there are no threat warning systems fitted to most commercial airliners...



Good to see you checking in here ...your contributions help us understand the technical aspects.

..the BBM part is reassuring in that the passengers would have expired quickly and hopefully had little or no time to suffer.
 
Crime scene photos
 

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Apologies for my failure to read the thread as it has developed - I may be raising things that have already been said...


My first impressions:

I think there is more to this than is being reported - There are many procedures and basic operating expectations/requirements that have either been completely neglected and/or ignored for this to have happend. That being said, whilst I don't discount the possibility that someone handed a complete idiot the keys to one of the worlds most highly capable SAM systems without even questioning the Vodka on his breath before signing off, I have a hard time believing that a crew who's sole job is to operate a Surface to Air Missile system that shoots down aircraft would have failed at even the most basic of aircraft recognition checks and then go on to confirm the launch without requesting an IDENT for confirmation... especially in such a busy airspace by an aircraft that was flying 2000ft into the commercial operations lanes....

They should have had PLENTY if procedures had been followed by the moron with the itchy trigger finger with the SAM system... The transponder would have been set to say, 1200 (normal operations civillian flight) and broadcasting to all threat assessment systems (which this SAM system would have as part of its built ins) and even if there had been any confusion, question or failure of this intial identification of the aircraft in question, common sense and weapons systems procedures of operation 101 would logically ask for a confirmation of target before launch if there was any doubt at all about what they were about to shoot down.

A basic IDENT request by whoever was in charge of overseeing the battlefield and the airspace overhead would have again stopped this. And IDENT is where the 777 crew would be asked to identify as "FRIEND OR FOE" by sqawking their response confirmation ID back... and its almost inconcievable to even the most basic of reasoning that they have failed to do this... another failsafe completely ignored or not even conidered...

So those two basic checks on their own should have stopped this happening... then there is the question of why someone who was operating a surface to air missile system of that level of capability even passed his basic aircraft recognition test before he was handed the keys... *advertiser censored*... its pretty easy to break this down and see why this is pretty important... you operate a surface to air missile system... your sole job and requirement is to shoot down aircraft... It probably stands to reason that you brush up on your ID skills so you know what your aiming at.... and learn to count to at least 4... because it would have been clearly visable to anyone who had been to Spec Savers that the contrails of a 777 are developing from two engines, unlike the Antonov they are claiming, which has 4 engines.

Then there was the altitude they were flying at... 2000ft above the hard deck for commercial airliners (so they were in the approved safe zone) and crusing at a constand speed with no directional changes... and whilst I bet the muppet who pressed the big red button and took on the burden of ending 240 or so innocent human lives is probably sitting there this evening saying to himself "*advertiser censored*... shoulda gone to Spec Savers!", its all a bit suspect to me that without even going into the detailed safe engagement procedures that should/MUST be followed, one could now see how unlikely, almost impossible an accidental shoot down would be.

The MAL crew and passengers would have had zero warning without the aforementioned procedures and comminications. They would have been watching their in flight movie on one of those ****** old back of headrest screens and chowing down a second round of Chicken Satay one second and then gone the next... the exposive decompression of the cabin at that altitude would have sucked the air from their lungs and knocked em out cold in less than half a second.... there are no threat warning systems fitted to most commercial airliners...



Good to see you checking in here ...your contributions help us understand the technical aspects.

..the BBM part is reassuring in that the passengers would have expired quickly and hopefully had little or no time to suffer.

Amen to that! Seeing a few of them and realizing that their heads ended up so deep in the dirt, it bothered me. I hoped that they were unconscious as they fell from the sky.
 
Second black box recovered in Malaysian plane crash
Dozens of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 passengers remain unverified; 2nd flight recorder recovered

U.S. President Barack Obama, who spoke to Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte as well as other leaders, said evidence from the crash must remain in Ukraine so international investigators have a chance to look at all of it, officials said.

"The president and prime minister (Rutte) agreed on the need to assure immediate access to the site of the incident to international investigators in order to facilitate the recovery of remains and to carry out a thorough investigation," the White House said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-malaysia-plane-ukraine-20140717,0,3092919.story
 
On a side note - I'm waiting for the conspiracy theories to emerge that this was the planned "disposal" of the 777-200 airframe (MRO) that was previously flown as MH370 *rolls eyes*:drumroll:

Hahaha I was on the ABC facebook page this morning and believe me there were lots of conspiracy theories being branded about, most of course were that this was the US to start a war with Russia....one said over shale oil in the Ukraine which had recently knocked back allowing international companies coming in to find it (or similar) and yes one guy said that we had all been fooled and this was a plane being flown remotely and was the MH370....he was deadly serious...
 
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