Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[SouthAussie]

Lots of planes fly that route. Sorry there is no way one can blame MAL on this.

I don't think anyone is trying to directly blame MAS, they did not say hey ho, here we are, try to shoot us down. As you say, other airlines also continued to fly over that airspace despite the warnings. But it certainly would have benefited 289 people if more airlines erred on the side of caution and avoided the area - as a number of airlines have done for months.

 

[time]

I do. They should not have been flying over Ukraine. Plain and simple.

I agree... I think all planes should have been told to stay out of there, but it's also each country and airlines responsibility to be informed on the dangers. It seems to me they were just saying, well, lots of planes fly over there and none have been hit yet! Count me out of that!

 

[time]

That's BS. Plain and simple. That's like blaming the sex victim because she dressed too sexy.

It's not the MAL executives who were killed? It was innocent people who would not even know they could be in danger. And, I don't see your analogy as working in this case.

 

[wb180]

I don't think anyone is trying to blame MAS .. as you say, other airlines also continued to fly over that airspace despite the warnings. But it certainly would have benefited 289 people if more airlines erred on the side of caution and avoided the area - as a number of airlines have done for months.

It would have benefited 289 people if the rebels knew what the hell they were shooting. There are lots of live conflicts in the world if people actually realise this.

 

[CARIIS]

You guys gave me the link to watch cnn live on computer am so grateful before the link my cable provider kept saying we dont have that yet and xxxx.

Anyone know how to get ABC live streaming in America - I too am tiring of Cnn - lost a lot of respect during the 370 stuff, IMO, you know who is great on CNN 9=11 AM Est is Carol Costello she asks inteligent questions, does not put up with BS etc

 

[2rose]

Lots of planes fly that route. Sorry there is no way one can blame MAL on this.

I wasn't putting blame for the accident on Malaysia Airlines. My message was
written to comment on descisions that a pilot does OR does not have control over.
There are many small contributing factors that go into any accident.

 

[wb180]

It's not the MAL executives who were killed? It was innocent people who would not even know they could be in danger. And, I don't see your analogy as working in this case.

The analogy is blaming the victim.

 

[inthedark14]

Let’s pretend that they say ok everyone can come in. Can the roads handle big cranes? Big oversize load 24 wheelers? Tankers to fuel the heavy equipment . Where do staff sleep eat etc.? Can the roads handle the 24 wheelers going back down the road loaded with tons of destroyed aircraft on them. They move at what 8 mph-that quite a haul..

So in reality if they let anything “in” it seems like they are going to be pretty limited in terms of where they go from there. And in missile attack stuff they really need a hefty portion of the aircraft to do testing to determine “explosion” stuff . Residue fragments from the warhead etc.

The world is angry – but then does it become moot if they let “people” in. After all the contamination even experts limited to only on site work – that data is , in itself , going to be limited in information. I know it rained earlier today from the really good journalist that has been there from the beginning. That messes stuff up too. He also said flies are starting to swarm the bodies.

I would think organs “alone” would be subject to decomp faster than a reasonable intact body. Lots of talk about loved ones wanting proper burials – we don’t know what numbers yet, but there are a lots of folks where there is nothing left to put in a coffin.

It is going to be hard to determine a heart lying in the middle of a field belongs where……

And then, we reality we kind of know “what” happened…

For Pan Am 103 (bomb in plane) In total 4 million pieces of wreckage were collected and registered on computer files. More than 10,000 pieces of debris were retrieved, tagged and entered into a computer tracking system.


For TWA what they did was stunning:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_800

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103#Investigation

Some pics Of Pan AM 103:

notice all the support stuff needed on site.

Big hanger needed




putting a baggage container back together in a HUGE warehouse

.

Quite a mess……………….

Well they will be doing the investigation in the city of Kharkiv, which is the second biggest city in Ukraine. It is likely that there would be warehouses and/or hangers large enough to handle the the investigation.

The ministry also said that the investigation would be based in Kharkiv.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/18/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-passenger-published-video-board-doomed-jet-take-off_n_5598230.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ir=UK#194_rebels-provide-limited-access-investigators-to-to-crash-site

As for the ability of trucks and equipment getting to the site of the crash. I have to opine that due to the fact of the nearby mine (is it a coal mine?), at least some trucks will be able to get through to the site. Perhaps not 24 wheel trucks, but certainly trucks large enough to haul the equipment needed and the wreckage of the plane. If all else fails, there is most likely a rail system running to the mine.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[gngr~snap]

Video that combines the Plush Toy Monkey (at the beginning) and what looks like the OSCE.

[video=youtu;xLdRBaL4-wU]http://youtu.be/xLdRBaL4-wU[/video]

The pictures that were published about the militia showing a Plush Monkey were not what they seemed.
Video shows a circle of journalists, and lots of cameras.
Captain puts the plush toy back, takes off his cap and makes the sign of the cross.
All while holding his weapon like a baby in his other arm.

I was hoping it went like this!


All posts are MOO.

 

[SouthAussie]

It would have benefited 289 people if the rebels knew what the hell they were shooting. There are lots of live conflicts in the world if people actually realise this.

I understand your point, but because there are cowboy rebels in that area .. all the more reason to avoid it IMO.



Mr Bartsch said that while bodies like the International Air Transport Association issued advisories and warnings from time to time, incidents like MH17 “really hit home that it is up to individual airlines to continually monitor and assess the risk on a daily basis”.

Ultimately it was up to the airlines themselves to determine whether potential hazards on their routes were within “an acceptable level of safety”, he said.

Mr Bartsch said there had been instances, such as a volcano eruption in Chile, when Australian airlines had chosen not to fly even though the airspace was declared safe by authorities.

“You can use the analogy of a policeman can’t be there to tell you when to cross the road and when not to,” he said. “It is up to the individual, in the case of airlines, to make that assessment.”


http://www.smh.com.au/business/avia...ons-flights-ukraine-route-20140718-zuilw.html

 

[time]

The analogy is blaming the victim.

To me, the victims are the people who are dead.... I am not convinced Malaysian Airlines and it's higher ups are a victim yet.

 

[newone]

The analogy is blaming the victim.

The true victims here are the passengers and crew NOT MAL

 

[gngr~snap]

You guys gave me the link to watch cnn live on computer am so grateful before the link my cable provider kept saying we dont have that yet and xxxx.

Anyone know how to get ABC live streaming in America - I too am tiring of Cnn - lost a lot of respect during the 370 stuff, IMO, you know who is great on CNN 9=11 AM Est is Carol Costello she asks inteligent questions, does not put up with BS etc

http://www.stream2watch.me/live-tv/abc-live-stream

??? I don't know if it works, says I need a player.

All posts are MOO.

 

[CARIIS]

MH370 had one pilot & one co-pilot ... does anyone know why MH17 had 2 pilots & 2 co-pilots ?

I do not recall the exact times (varies by country) but all flights over X amount of hours have two crews. One does the takeoff and landing and in the middle the other set comes up and lets the other two lie down for a certain amount of time

 

[newone]

No **** Sherlock. But blaming MAL on this is BS.

don't know who this is but

the airlines get to chose the safest route and others have been diverting for some time now including Singapore Airlines and Asiana

 

[mck16]

don't know who this is but

the airlines get to chose the safest route and others have been diverting for some time now including Singapore Airlines and Asiana

They have said over and over the captain selects the flight path. jmo

 

[Lyra500]

don't know who this is but

the airlines get to chose the safest route and others have been diverting for some time now including Singapore Airlines and Asiana

I think this is incorrect. BBC News 24 showed a radar map earlier this evening (UK time) - they said that it could just as easily have been another plane shot down and they specifically said that a Singapore Airlines plane had passed very close to the spot where MH17 was shot down shortly before (or after) - can't remember which. They definitely said SA and they mentioned another airline which I am afraid I cannot recall right now.

This is a link to a Reuters article dated Friday 18th July:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-route-idUSKBN0FN0VB20140718

(Reuters) - Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said on Friday that the national airline took no undue risk in flying over Ukraine, a route he stressed was approved by the UN International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) and widely used by other airlines.

He said 15 out of 16 airlines in the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines flew the same route, as did many European carriers.

"In the hours before the incident, a number of other passenger aircraft from different carriers used the same route," he said. "There were no last minute instructions given to the pilots of MH17 to change the route of the flight."

 

[wb180]

BBC News 24 showed a radar map earlier this evening (UK time) - they said that it could just as easily have been another plane shot down and they specifically said that a Singapore Airlines plane had passed very close to the spot where MH17 was shot down shortly before (or after) - can't remember which. They definitely said SA and they mentioned another airline which I am afraid I cannot recall right now.

If people actually knew how common it is for planes to fly over conflict areas, they won't be saying all this bs about MAL. It is about probability.

 

[inthedark14]

Deleted link not working right. Stupid yahoo.

:fence:

 

[panthera]

I wasn't putting blame for the accident on Malaysia Airlines. My message was
written to comment on descisions that a pilot does OR does not have control over.
There are many small contributing factors that go into any accident.

What accident? The downing of MH17 appears to be a deliberate act of terrorism, not an "accident".



MOO