Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[fruity]

Can someone give me a bag so I can put it over my head? I am ashamed to admit that I haven't been following the situation in Russia very closely. I know what is happening but I don't know details. Is there an unbiased "things you really should educate yourself about, you dumb bum" site I can read to get the background etc?

Zero excuses for being ignorant, I've been more interested in other things.

 

[mck16]

These trained monkeys pointed a very dangerous missile launcher toward the sky and pushed the button


totally agree

-I think they messed up casue they are not really trained (earlier post) with link. There are three components to the system. The most important ones the idiots did not have so they just went for it and here we are with 300 people destroyed.

Like IMO, they did not say lets shoot a commerical aircraft they just did not know how to operate it correctly. And it is a heat seeking missle, so if we pretend there was a milittary aircraft in the area (lower altitufe?) the morons thoght lets get that, but the missle tracked on the heat being generated by the 777.

WHich in another context makes sense, I am not sure, but I think it might be safe to say that there probably isnt a military aircraft in a third world setting is flying these huge military aircraft that would exceed the heat of the 777 huge engines, so it makes sense that the heat seeking missle locked on the 777 engine output heatwise. Just imo

I agree. And that is my point. If they have this kind of power in their hands wouldn't you think they would be trained properly? I am sorry, but I think they are just cowboys brought in from the farms and stuck a weapon in their hands. It to me is very scary. They really have no regard for life. mine, yours, and probably their own men. jmo

 

[ArianeEmory]

http://gizmodo.com/a-tweetbot-caught-the-russian-govt-editing-flight-mh17-1607483459

Remember @CongressEdits, the tweetbot that alerts whenever a Wikipedia article is edited from a government IP address? There's a Russian version now, and it just uncovered some pretty drastic edits to a Wikipedia article that mentions Flight MH17, originating from a Russian government IP address.

More at link, including the edits.

@fruity, until I saw the article above I would have recommended wikipedia. *facepalm*

 

[jellybeanz]

NYT Graphics @nytgraphics
Updated map shows launch area of missile that shot down Flight 17, according to U.S. official: http://nyti.ms/1yCUaos

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=05d_1405623670 This video was uploaded very soon after the incident.

 

[CARIIS]

[SIZE=+1]Soil temperature and moisture content are very important factors affecting decomposition rates. At favorable moisture conditions, increasing temperature results in an exponential increase in decomposition rates

Hummm:
[SIZE=+1]The mean residence time of forest floor organic matter and its nutrients for contrasting forest types is shown[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

http://lawr.ucdavis.edu/classes/ssc219/biogeo/decomp.htm

The rate of decay within the human body after death is normally split into two distinct categories. These are:

• Autolysis: A process of self-digestion where the body's enzymes contained within cells begin to go into a post death meltdown. The process can be speeded up by extreme heat and likewise slowed down by extreme cold.
• Putrefaction: Bacteria that escape from the body's intestinal tract after the deceased has died are released into the body and begin the process of literally melting the body down.

after the first 36 hours the neck, the abdomen, the shoulders and the head begin to turn a discoloured green. This is then followed by bloating – an accumulation of gas that is produced by bacteria toiling away within the deceased. This bloating is most visible around the face where the eyes and the tongue protrude as the gas inside pushes them forward.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/the-rate-of-decay-in-a-corpse.html

 

[sorrell skye]

http://gizmodo.com/a-tweetbot-caught-the-russian-govt-editing-flight-mh17-1607483459



More at link, including the edits.

@fruity, until I saw the article above I would have recommended wikipedia. *facepalm*

I haven't checked the English version yet, but this article says the bot noted a change on a Russian language version.

It appears that an internet user from within the All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VGTRK) changed a Russian language version of a page listing civil aviation accidents to say that "The plane [flight MH17] was shot down by Ukrainian soldiers".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...overnment-edits-Wikipedia-on-flight-MH17.html

The English version may still be okay.

ETA: I just checked the English version and it appears accurate.

 

[CARIIS]

http://gizmodo.com/a-tweetbot-caught-the-russian-govt-editing-flight-mh17-1607483459



More at link, including the edits.

@fruity, until I saw the article above I would have recommended wikipedia. *facepalm*

wow -its all out of control

 

[mck16]

[SIZE=+1]Soil temperature and moisture content are very important factors affecting decomposition rates. At favorable moisture conditions, increasing temperature results in an exponential increase in decomposition rates

T
Hummm:
[SIZE=+1]The mean residence time of forest floor organic matter and its nutrients for contrasting forest types is shown[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

http://lawr.ucdavis.edu/classes/ssc219/biogeo/decomp.htm

The rate of decay within the human body after death is normally split into two distinct categories. These are:

• Autolysis: A process of self-digestion where the body's enzymes contained within cells begin to go into a post death meltdown. The process can be speeded up by extreme heat and likewise slowed down by extreme cold.
• Putrefaction: Bacteria that escape from the body's intestinal tract after the deceased has died are released into the body and begin the process of literally melting the body down.

after the first 36 hours the neck, the abdomen, the shoulders and the head begin to turn a discoloured green. This is then followed by bloating – an accumulation of gas that is produced by bacteria toiling away within the deceased. This bloating is most visible around the face where the eyes and the tongue protrude as the gas inside pushes them forward.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/the-rate-of-decay-in-a-corpse.html

This whole thing is sickening. I just can't believe it. If something like this happened in the U.S. it would be major. I can't imagine how those people feel with their family members laying in a field. Not discounting what they wen through before they landed in those fields. I am beyond grief. This is deplorable.

 

[panthera]

MH17 passenger list by PatrickHatch

A full list of passengers aboard Malaysian Airlines flight 17 has emerged.

The list, posted on Dutch website Geenstijl, gives the names and seat numbers of those on the doomed flight and shows there were three infants aboard.


http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37s8O1qyK

:rose: raying:

ETA: There are 2 more pages of this list. They can be viewed at the 9:05 post at the link.

From the same link, and directly above the passenger list....

Tragedy has struck George and Irene Burrows twice.
They lost their son Rodney and his wife Mary on MH370 when it disappeared in March.
Now, with the downing of MH17, they have lost their step-granddaugher, Maree Rizk, from Sunbury, 40 kilometres north-west of Melbourne.

"But at least we know what has happened. It's the not knowing that's the worst."


Heartbreaking.
:cry:

 

[2rose]

Deleted link not working right. Stupid yahoo.
:fence:

I don't know which links you are referring to ... But SouthAussie, I tried clicking
on 2 of your links & they didn't work. I can tell you how to fix the problem.

Websleuths truncates long urls. So when you copy a whole message
which includes an url in it, you will only get the part of the url which shows.

If you want to copy the WHOLE url so that it works properly, point to the web address, then right click on it & choose "copy link location" ... this will copy the whole address no matter how long it is.

 

[CARIIS]

"A woman in a black sweater top lay on her back, blood streaming from her face, her left arm raised as if signalling someone," wrote Sabrine Tavernise, a New York Times correspondent.




"Another victim, naked except for a black bra, lay on the field, her grey hair mixing with the green grasses, one leg broken and her body torn.

"A young boy, who looked to be around 10 years old, lay on his side in a red T-shirt that read 'Don't Panic'."

"Many of the victims were still in their seat belts and attached to pieces of the plane," Ms Tavernise continued. "One man, still in his socks, but without pants [trousers], lay akimbo on the field, his right arm placed on his stomach, as if in repose.

"A young man in blue shorts, wearing red Nike sneakers, lay with his arms and legs splayed outward, clutching his iPhone."


"Dogs barked in the distance and the air was filled with a bitter smell," wrote Ms Tavernise. "As dark descended on the field ... a light rain began to fall, casting a funereal pall over a scene of almost unspeakable horror."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...et-first-arrivals-at-Ukraine-crash-scene.html

When you Goggle MAL 17 you get:
About 7,720,000 results

[h=3][/h]

 

[CARIIS]

This whole thing is sickening. I just can't believe it. If something like this happened in the U.S. it would be major. I can't imagine how those people feel with their family members laying in a field. Not discounting what they wen through before they landed in those fields. I am beyond grief. This is deplorable.

It just seems like the world is going mad. The last 3 months are unreal its pathetic...................

 

[inthedark14]

I don't know which links you are referring to ... But SouthAussie, I tried clicking
on 2 of your links & they didn't work. I can tell you how to fix the problem.

Websleuths truncates long urls. So when you copy a whole message
which includes an url in it, you will only get the part of the url which shows.

If you want to copy the WHOLE url so that it works properly, point to the web address, then right click on it & choose "copy link location" ... this will copy the whole address no matter how long it is.

Ok, I was trying to repost a link I posted yesterday in post #478 of this thread. Here is the link again:

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/airlin...fter-malaysian-plane-is-shot-92072525482.html

ETA that totally worked, thanks for teaching me something 2rose!

 

[SouthAussie]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...r-mh370-vanished/story-fnizu68q-1226992900778


It certainly looks as though someone with a twitchy trigger finger committed this crime.

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

The ABC freelance reporter was John Wendle. See this report:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/malaysia-airline-plane-downed-ukraine-witness-bodies/story?id=24607366

Thank you.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't know which links you are referring to ... But SouthAussie, I tried clicking
on 2 of your links & they didn't work. I can tell you how to fix the problem.

Websleuths truncates long urls. So when you copy a whole message
which includes an url in it, you will only get the part of the url which shows.

If you want to copy the WHOLE url so that it works properly, point to the web address, then right click on it & choose "copy link location" ... this will copy the whole address no matter how long it is.

Oops, sorry 2rose. Next time I'll check that the links work! Going back now to try to fix ..... and thanks for the tip :seeya:

 

[i.b.nora]

On June 30th, General Philip Breedlove, Commander of NATO in Europe spoke to or at the Pentagon press core and spoke of the fact that NATO had observed big surface to air missiles in the eastern Ukraine area and that the Separatists were being trained by Russians on how to use them.


https://mobile.twitter.com/PMBreedlove

Looking forward to speaking w/ Pentagon press today to discuss Russian/Ukraine crisis, Resolute Support mission, & @NATO future.
3:07am - 30 Jun

and

https://mobile.twitter.com/US_EUCOM/status/483654810374508545

Gen @PMBreedlove talks with Pgon Press live today@1915CET/1:30pmEDT pentagonchannel.mil pic.twitter.com/LVUoDCvpGH
9:43am - 30 Jun 14

Rachel Maddow talked about this tonight on her show and aired a clip from the press conference. The conference was on June 30th. On Monday, July 14, a Ukrainian military plane was shot down.

 

[redheadedgal]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101845738

They should not have been flying over Ukraine. Plain and simple.

I don't think anyone is trying to directly blame MAS, they did not say hey ho, here we are, try to shoot us down. As you say, other airlines also continued to fly over that airspace despite the warnings. But it certainly would have benefited 289 people if more airlines erred on the side of caution and avoided the area - as a number of airlines have done for months.

I agree... I think all planes should have been told to stay out of there, but it's also each country and airlines responsibility to be informed on the dangers. It seems to me they were just saying, well, lots of planes fly over there and none have been hit yet! Count me out of that!

again, from the article elley herself quoted:

It is not unusual that a commercial airplane would be flying over an embattled country like Ukraine, said aviation consultant David Fuscus, president of Xenophon Strategies, because airlines often rely on being high enough to avoid most dangers.

"Would planes have been routed over Iraq and Iran during the Iraq/Iran war? The answer is no. But over Ukraine and Russia at this point? There was probably nothing that was done to avoid flying routes over the area," Fuscus said.

 

[2rose]

<MH370 had one pilot & one co-pilot ... does anyone know why MH17 had 2 pilots & 2 co-pilots ?>

I do not recall the exact times (varies by country) but all flights over X amount of hours have two crews. One does the takeoff and landing and in the middle the other set comes up and lets the other two lie down for a certain amount of time

Thanks for your reply ... I am now thinking it is likely to be whatever the country
considers a normal work shift ... such as 8 hours typically. MH370 was a 6 hour flight.
Do you know how long the MH17 flight was supposed to normally be ?

 

[Snick1946]

I know this will sound insane and I know for a number of reasons it cannot be done but.. if those bodies are still out there with nothing being done in 48 more hours I would love to see contingents of armed soldiers from the Netherlands and Australia shoot their way in there and collect them.