Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #3

[InVinoVeritas]

I highly doubt she’d have gone. Unless they offered to take her to her Mum?
I think it’s probable NQ displays ASD features though and would have a pre discussed routine to help anxieties.
When you wake, come to our room. Toilet. Breakfast etc. IF she has and it’s jmo, she’d have not deviated willingly,

It's a shame we don't know more about how this family holidayed generally. As several posters have pointed out, The Dusun is slightly off radar. I've travelled a lot, through India and South East Asia, but for the moment [I have a 4 year old] my holidays are focused on child friendly activities. I imagine this family are very confident travellers, as SQ was happy to make the long flight alone with 3 children. The Dusun is certainly marketed as a tropical retreat rather than luxurious, as many of the Trip Advisor posts indicate Sora House was in a shabby state with kitchen cabinets falling off, geckos, and even rats [May 2019]. Perhaps Nora wasn't comfortable with large groups and noise ... hence choosing a quiet remote destination; although had they accounted for the jungle noises?

I really think there is some mileage in the following:

1. Nora was disoriented and alarmed by a gecko or rat in Sora House, and panicked. Yes, she could've woken her parents or siblings, but we don't know what her normal reaction would be; especially if she was frightened and in flight mode.

2. Nora woke completely disoriented and scared of/excited by the jungle noises, and thought she needed to "get home"/explore.

3. Did Nora think she was getting up to go to the toilet and got lost?

4. Nora was enticed to play, perhaps with one of the staff's children she may have met the day before [remember, the Dusun website says local staff can bring their children to work at the weekends] and they innocently took her to the waterfall? It would be their back garden, after all ....

5. As previously suggested, did the other siblings remain in the cabin all night, or did they too wake early in the morning and are now too scared to say anything? Perhaps Nora was pestering them about the waterfall.

 

[Njust1]

Yeah, and she seems like a healthy sized kid in the photos, so I can’t imagine an intruder whisking her away while she was asleep. If she had balance and mobility issues if someone woke her up and tried to get her out of her room suddenly, she’s likely to be even more off balance when she is still groggy from sleep.

Something I read said she was sleeping upstairs... does anyone know if that is correct? If so how would she climb out the window?

I think she woke up and went off on her own.

The villa has a mezzanine floor upstairs where she slept with her siblings. The parents slept downstairs - in fact, just next to the spiral staircase, is the door to their bedroom. The window is also downstairs. I am amazed that no one heard anything !

Were they all on medication (for jetlag) or something?

 

[Chiatos]

HKL senior pathologist arrives to lead post-mortem on Nora Quoirin’s body (VIDEO) | Malay Mail

Lawyer Sankara N. Nair was also seen arriving at the hospital before making his way to the forensics unit.

When asked about his presence, the lawyer told reporters he was representing the Quoirins here.

 

[cocomisty]

Rest in peace Nora poor girl
Hoping it was accidental and nothing more sinister
Thinking of her family at this time

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Just gone 7am here in the uk, hoping for news soon. If we're on tenterhooks, imagine how her parents must be suffering

tenterhooks? Is that kind of like on pins and needles?

 

[InVinoVeritas]

The villa has a mezzanine floor upstairs where she slept with her siblings. The parents slept downstairs - in fact, just next to the spiral staircase, is the door to their bedroom. The window is also downstairs. I am amazed that no one heard anything !

Were they all on medication (for jetlag) or something?

But with jungle noises? And presumably people get up to go to the toilet during the night?
What did they do on previous holidays with jet lag and night times? I imagine in a "normal" scenario the tv would be on, so activities seem limited. Perhaps Nora had been awake for hours ....

 

[Stanly]

tenterhooks? Is that kind of like on pins and needles?

By the mid-18th century, the phrase "on tenterhooks" came to mean being in a state of tension, uneasiness, anxiety, or suspense, i.e. figuratively stretched like the cloth on the tenter.

 

[MsFacetious]

Twitter

A postmortem to determine Nora Quoirin’s cause of death was scheduled for 10am this morning. Police are due to update media at 5pm. Criminal investigators have been at the area where her body was found and the results will inform what they do next

 

[Luwin]

tenterhooks? Is that kind of like on pins and needles?

The phrase "on tenterhooks" means "waiting nervously for something to happen." ... The phrase compares the tenseness of the fabric to the feeling of being very tense. When someone is in a state of uneasiness or suspense, you might say that person is ontenterhooks. We're on the edge of our seats to learn more.

 

[Elgana]

tenterhooks? Is that kind of like on pins and needles?

It's just an odd british phrase meaning feeling on edge whilst waiting for something to happen, or being held in suspense.

 

[Njust1]

But with jungle noises? And presumably people get up to go to the toilet during the night?
What did they do on previous holidays with jet lag and night times? I imagine in a "normal" scenario the tv would be on, so activities seem limited. Perhaps Nora had been awake for hours ....

Yeah, my kids are always awake at night in Asia when we just arrived from Europe because their bodies are still on European time..

 

[imstilla.grandma]

By the mid-18th century, the phrase "on tenterhooks" came to mean being in a state of tension, uneasiness, anxiety, or suspense, i.e. figuratively stretched like the cloth on the tenter.

Okay. Thanks. But what is a tenter?

 

[InVinoVeritas]

Yeah, my kids are always awake at night in Asia when we just arrived from Europe because their bodies are still on European time..

MQ wouldn’t have suffered so badly with jet lag as she only travelled from Aus, so she would’ve been on a normal time zone. I wonder if Nora took any regular medication and if the timings had been skewed by the jet lag so a normal bedtime dose was missed?

 

[Luwin]

Okay. Thanks. But what is a tenter?

a framework on which fabric can be held taut for drying or other treatment during manufacture.

 

[TristanP]

Disclaimer: i am not blaming anyone.

I’m curious about why people do not suspect it was a/the parent(s). Typically that is our first theory and it’s most often correct. Given that a stranger abduction is incredibly rare, why does that seem to be the theory here? Is it because they were in a foreign country on a great vacation that they aren’t suspected? Or because she had special needs that they wouldn’t have done it?

That’s an easy one: the parents appear to be wealthy.

It’s unfortunate because I doubt the autopsy is going to provide any solid answers because she has likely decomposed quite a lot, and in intense heat and humidity.

I think this is really a case of the most simple explanation being correct: she wandered out of the house, got lost, and perished in the jungle. I fully believe her parents when they say it would be completely out of character for her to wander, but they were in a new place after a long day of traveling, and I think she simply did something they never expected she would do and it had a tragic ending.

Her family and loved ones must all be in such a state of shock and disbelief.

 

[monkey222]

Can't get past the bare feet in a jungle. I can see walking as far as 20 yds, max, maybe. No way over a mile. Something very wrong.

 

[Njust1]

Whew! Thank Goodness you had more common sense than these parents! /s

Or was there some other point you were making with that line, other than (not so) veiled criticism for their choice of vacation destinations?

No criticism on their choice. I’d love to go to the Dusun but my kid would be too much work in such an environment.

 

[SOMETHINGWILLDO]

To say anyone is xenophobic is a massive dramatisation of what is being said. Common sense will tell you that no country, especially one that relies on tourism funds so much, will want a child holidaymaker murder on their hands. It’s for that very reason plus lack of ANY evidence that they grasped onto the missing person tag for so long, no one would want to cause a knee jerk reaction unnecessarily, especially when eyes from Britain, Ireland and France are watching the case unfold.

Take Tunisia for eg, the ISIS attack in Sousse took the country to their knees, countries wouldn’t put flights on or offer holiday packages for a long time, countless hotels closed, thousands left unemployed, the place was barren because of that incident. It is fair to make judgment that there could be a possibility that the Malaysian government/police will want to keep this as under wraps as they can within reason, luckily there are representatives from various countries over there who will hopefully oversee proceedings.

IMO, and it’s only MO, I believe there are only 2 options in this case:

The first one being that Nora left the room herself, no one would be concerned about her making her way downstairs to use the bathroom, I believe she then left, got lost and ended up having a terrible accident.

If it turns out that there’s a form of foul play involved I do not believe that she was abducted from the room, they had only arrived that day, not enough time to allow a perpetrator to scope the situation, their habits etc. A perpetrator runs a massive risk of being caught when not prepared. I believe if some harm has came to Nora at the hands of someone else that this could only of happened when she was wandering about the forest unaccompanied and it was an opportunist situation.

Someone mentioned Alisha McFall earlier as a comparison - yes, she was taken from her grandparents home without anyone being alerted but remember, she was taken by a family friend (I use that term lightly), who knew the family dynamics and their routine, it wasn’t an opportunist abduction.

 

[Safeguard]

A

No criticism on their choice. I’d love to go to the Dusun but my kid would be too much work in such an environment.

Ah. I could have sworn you said it wasn't "safe" to bring a special needs child there. Hmmm.

 

[Njust1]

To say anyone is xenophobic is a massive dramatisation of what is being said. Common sense will tell you that no country, especially one that relies on tourism funds so much, will want a child holidaymaker murder on their hands. It’s for that very reason plus lack of ANY evidence that they grasped onto the missing person tag for so long, no one would want to cause a knee jerk reaction unnecessarily, especially when eyes from Britain, Ireland and France are watching the case unfold.

Take Tunisia for eg, the ISIS attack in Sousse took the country to their knees, countries wouldn’t put flights on or offer holiday packages for a long time, countless hotels closed, thousands left unemployed, the place was barren because of that incident. It is fair to make judgment that there could be a possibility that the Malaysian government/police will want to keep this as under wraps as they can within reason, luckily there are representatives from various countries over there who will hopefully oversee proceedings.

IMO, and it’s only MO, I believe there are only 2 options in this case:

The first one being that Nora left the room herself, no one would be concerned about her making her way downstairs to use the bathroom, I believe she then left, got lost and ended up having a terrible accident.

If it turns out that there’s a form of foul play involved I do not believe that she was abducted from the room, they had only arrived that day, not enough time to allow a perpetrator to scope the situation, their habits etc. A perpetrator runs a massive risk of being caught when not prepared. I believe if some harm has came to Nora at the hands of someone else that this could only of happened when she was wandering about the forest unaccompanied and it was an opportunist situation.

Someone mentioned Alisha McFall earlier as a comparison - yes, she was taken from her grandparents home without anyone being alerted but remember, she was taken by a family friend (I use that term lightly), who knew the family dynamics and their routine, it wasn’t an opportunist abduction.

Have you been toMalaysia?

Kids are missing on holidays in Greece (Ben Needham), Portugal (Madeleine McCann), Aruba ... etc etc but that didn’t destroy tourism. Tunisia and Malaysia may be both classified as 3rd world but culturally and infact geographically super different, let alone people’s attitude to tourism. Malaysia also has other sources of income (and oil too) and not subsisting solely on tourism to try and cover up crimes committed on foreign nationals , just to preserve it. Of course, any country would not want to damage its reputation, so I guess that’s what the Malaysians are striving for. MOO