Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

[InVinoVeritas]

6.06am in the UK so a bit of sleuthing before getting ready ...
Ok so up until this point in her life, Nora’s parents say she would never have gone off alone. Had they been to the jungle before? Nora, despite her limitations, was 15, and at some age she may indeed have acted differently.
Imagine if she hadn’t slept because of the jet lag or the insects ... would it have been a “crime” for her to get out of the window and play outside or explore?
Why was the first presumption that it was a crime? She might’ve been playing a short distance from the house.
I still believe she went out by herself, but I’m not sure what happened after that ...
I hope the police are talking to the shamans in great detail ....

 

[Seni]

Three kids, one is handicapped traveling an 18 hour flight, the the drive to the resort in a taxi, maybe stopped for groceries, language barrier, new time zone. Of course, jet lag, even if you take away the kids.

8 AM in Malaysia is 1 AM in the UK. So dad was up at 1am UK time.....uh....

And, the first day is the worst.

Jmo

OK, Thanks,

What I meant was how can a witness observe someone else's jet lag? Someone they don't know, haven't talked too? Or shared a bedroom with?

 

[Kaykedi]

Thank you for checking!

Agree, the anonymous witness is unreliable, plus how can this person know they were suffering from jet lag?

There is a chance that the family were jetlagged as they will have been up for the best part of a day by the time they checked into their accommodation in Malaysia

 

[Simply Southern]

I thought her husband was French. Maybe he still has citizenship.

The attorney clarified what he said because initially the media completely misinterpreted him. (they tend to do that a lot)
He said they were asking for a criminal investigation. Imo

Well, I wish he had given his name.

We all know where that leads.

I thought France had boots in the ground, already. That's the folks I'd like to hear from.

JMO

 

[Seni]

There is a chance that the family were jetlagged as they will have been up for the best part of a day by the time they checked into their accommodation in Malaysia

Obviously, apart from the mother who flew in from Singapore.

My question is : how can a total stranger, observing from some distance state that the family were suffering from jet lag?

 

[MsBetsy]

Yeah, I thought about them threatening her too, but her parents make it sound like she has very little ability to comprehend anything and lacks communication skills in general. So I just don’t know. Is the family making her sound worse off than she actually was and she really can understand things quite well? I wish we had a better understanding of her physical and cognitive limitations.

No, her mother said she does not understand concepts, not that she has little ability to comprehend anything.
As I understand it, Nora was on about a first grade reading level.
She loved to play cat Bingo and tell jokes. She loved to wear clever shirts and bright colors.

She would have a good grasp on what is appropriate or what is not appropriate to do or say. It would have been taught to her at school on a daily basis when she was younger.
She would have understood a lot of things. She obviously had a sense of humor and the ability to tell jokes so she sounds to me like she was very high functioning considering her disability.

I've had students with similar disabilities who were nowhere near as high functioning and that's a reflection of the quality of services her parents have obviously provided for her.
Not every parent does that.
They seem like they are compassionate and dedicated.

I think her mother's description sounds accurate to what she would have been capable of.
She would have needed assistance with daily living skills and had to rely on her parents to do what many can do on their own. So she was not independent. She didn't even go out in their garden by herself.

But yes, she would have understood it if someone said to her, don't make any noise or something bad will happen to your parents. Imo

 

[Simply Southern]

OK, Thanks,

What I meant was how can a witness observe someone else's jet lag? Someone they don't know, haven't talked too? Or shared a bedroom with?

I think if they knew they were from UK they may have realized the time difference. We did. Its just an assumption, maybe they looked haggard and tired.

I thought the Dutch couples house was above Nora's. Maybe they could look down on them.

 

[Kubirai]

Ok so up until this point in her life, Nora’s parents say she would never have gone off alone. Had they been to the jungle before?
...
I still believe she went out by herself, but I’m not sure what happened after that ...
I hope the police are talking to the shamans in great detail ....

Malaysian police should be asking French police to contact Nora's teachers and neighbors to determine her actual physical and cognitive abilities. No shamans necessary.

That open window is key evidence, assuming it was NOT left open the night before. The culprit really wants French police to think he/she came through the window. But why?

 

[Kaykedi]

Obviously, apart from the mother who flew in from Singapore.

My question is : how can a total stranger, observing from some distance state that the family were suffering from jet lag?

They can't. They may be drawing from their own experience of flying long haul?

 

[Simply Southern]

When sunrise is around 7AM, local "dawn" prayer finishes by 6AM. When we were kids, we used to go exploring before sunrise.

I bet it is beautiful when the sun rises. I love the mountain visas at rise and sunset.

Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

Obviously, apart from the mother who flew in from Singapore.

My question is : how can a total stranger, observing from some distance state that the family were suffering from jet lag?

She wouldn't have known a thing about them except for what she observed, and much of that was just based on her opinion.
We have no way of knowing how accurate her account was. Imo

 

[SuperTmo]

I don't think he said they were upset that they were searching. He said he was confused as to why police claimed to the media that it was not an abduction case when they told the family it was both a missing persons and an abduction case from the start. The family was obviously upset about this, as valuable time may have been wasted in the beginning.

Either way, it is obviously a criminal investigation and now we know they have been working both angles from the beginning. Imo

I wonder if they have had any success with the fingerprints and the cell phone triangulation data.

We are probably talking about different statements. Here is one article that is part of Matthew Searle’s statement that I read. The original article I read was more detailed but I am still looking for it. This to me IMO says that they are frustrated because they didn’t believe she would be out in the forest and feel they should not take the approach of searching there.

Report: Family insists missing Irish teen was taken, frustrated by Malaysia’s search for her | Malay Mail

 

[Ruthbullock]

Sunrise 7:12 that would be dawn just barely light. He discovered at 8 am. What go pottie and head to check the kids?

Imo and Google...

Sunrise is day- full light, so will have been light for a good 30 minutes earlier than that as the sun rose.

 

[Simply Southern]

@Kaykedi
I am so sorry this happened in your quiet community. It is so distressing. My town has an unsolved family murder for 18 years now.
They never solved the case and it was national news. CNN, NBC,etc. invaded my quiet town. Its hard on the locals.

 

[SuperTmo]

But what I don't understand, why have the fence? What am I missing?

Imo

LOL this reminds me of a house on the way to the barn where my daughter rides. It is on a large hunk of property and has a long driveway. The driveway has a working electronic gate, but it isn’t attached to anything on either side. You can walk or drive right around. It’s so weird and it looks really dumb. Why have that??

 

[Mrs Marple]

Where has this fence come from? The mention of the fence with the hole is the first time l noticed anyone mentioning anything about a fence.

 

[SuperTmo]

In the US children are fingerprinted at most schools. I don't know about England, though.
I think they could tell from the prints done at birth, assuming they do that there. The pattern would be much bigger but it would still be identifiable, I would think. Imo

Not in any schools that I’m aware of. This is definitely not the case in WA, and wasn’t ever the case when I was a kid and went to school in 4 states. I’ve never heard of this before.

 

[Seni]

Honestly this stuff about France getting involved doesn’t make sense to me. She had a French parent, but he hadn’t lived there in 20 years. France has no jurisdiction here, as far as I understand. But maybe I’m missing something. The attorney said that they weren’t going to push for a criminal investigation but then they are essentially doing that via a 3rd party country. It’s weird, IMO.

Well yes, you're missing something. Nora's father is French, she probably also holds that nationality. We know the family attaches importance to their bi-lingual and cultural roots.

It has nothing to do with France holding any jurisdiction, France is merely following protocol for the best interest of its national subjects abroad by opening an investigation. France has also deployed embassy staff on-site.

 

[Shadyren]

press conference is now online.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=926158354408164

>estimate time of her death, was 2-3 days
>few bruises and small cut on her foots, but that not causes for her death
>no evidence that she was raped, her hymen still intact
>no evidence of kidnapping
>roughly report, that the cause of her death was gastro-internal rupture/bleeding. She did not eat for a very long time, plus she also under extremely stressful condition.
>there are still undergoing intensive diagnosis for further clarification cause of her death, followed next update will be announced soon.

 

[MsBetsy]

We are probably talking about different statements. Here is one article that is part of Matthew Searle’s statement that I read. The original article I read was more detailed but I am still looking for it. This to me IMO says that they are frustrated because they didn’t believe she would be out in the forest and feel they should not take the approach of searching there.

Report: Family insists missing Irish teen was taken, frustrated by Malaysia’s search for her | Malay Mail

Yes, that's an article reporting what he said. I was referring to what he said in the actual statement from the LBT site.
Yes, he is describing their frustration that police might have been missing valuable opportunities by not pursuing an abduction investigation right away.
All that time spent looking in the jungle could have been spent pursuing other leads.
So he is describing the families fear and frustration. Imo