Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[Ruthbullock]

There were 3 windows, this image does not show 3 images of windows. We need to root out another internal photograph

That’s the first of three, the other two are really close together and right next to the open balcony

 

[Ruthbullock]

You don't get it.
Medically speaking, Nora lacked muscular endurance. According to one of the Expert Reports, she wasn't able to sit or stand in one position for more than 20(?) seconds. Twenty seconds.
She might have exited by herself, but in no way did she reach the spot on her own where she was found after so many days.

To reach that spot one needs to have some degree of stamina and proper control of ones muscles. For sure.

I agree with what you are saying that she would have struggled to get to her location, but just playing devils advocate- on the same score she sat for a 19 hour flight which none of them slept through and then managed to sit for an hour and a half in a taxi to the resort before going swimming in a 30 minute walk, and then swimming again- even if you allow for some napping- there is some stamina there, yes she was with other people- but she still managed all that. She also managed her duke of Edinburgh hikes, accompanied by 1 adult to three children and sleeping on the floor in a tent for two nights. It is really improbable she reached that destination on her own, but not 100%. impossible.

 

[Ruthbullock]

This is the reflexology area outside sora house, interestingly you can see the windows from a slightly different angle. Obviously perception is everything in a photo, so could be completely wrong- but using the wooden bench, plant pot and hosepipe for some perspective- I would still say this window is much lower outside than waist height. It is JMO and is open to interpretation, but the outside photos I have seen tended to only have the window and wood shed in the photo.

 

[kittythehare]

I imagine if his assessment of height of window internally was incorrect that someone at the inquest would have corrected him. They did not.

 

[insearchoflight]

I agree with what you are saying that she would have struggled to get to her location, but just playing devils advocate- on the same score she sat for a 19 hour flight which none of them slept through and then managed to sit for an hour and a half in a taxi to the resort before going swimming in a 30 minute walk, and then swimming again- even if you allow for some napping- there is some stamina there, yes she was with other people- but she still managed all that. She also managed her duke of Edinburgh hikes, accompanied by 1 adult to three children and sleeping on the floor in a tent for two nights. It is really improbable she reached that destination on her own, but not 100%. impossible.

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. That although highly unlikely and seemingly impossible, not 100% impossible.

 

[insearchoflight]

You don't get it.
Medically speaking, Nora lacked muscular endurance. According to one of the Expert Reports, she wasn't able to sit or stand in one position for more than 20(?) seconds. Twenty seconds.
She might have exited by herself, but in no way did she reach the spot on her own where she was found after so many days.

To reach that spot one needs to have some degree of stamina and proper control of ones muscles. For sure.

I do get it. Highly unlikely yes, but not impossible.

 

[Ruthbullock]

All three windows from the inside

 

[Ruthbullock]

I imagine if his assessment of height of window internally was incorrect that someone at the inquest would have corrected him. They did not.

Perhaps, but why would they, they will have exact measurements I’m sure. However if it is much lower, it could be said by a legal team, that they exaggerated it to fit their narrative. It may be waist height, they may have subconsciously remembered it being much higher than it actually was, they could have exaggerated it- we don’t know, but it’s interesting to hear people’s thoughts on it.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Did they interview the people (I’m assuming guests?) that were heard outside and partying that evening?

 

[kittythehare]

Did they interview the people (I’m assuming guests?) that were heard outside and partying that evening?

One would hope so.
I imagine they did but we didn't hear very much about their findings.
Villagers reported hearing a truck start at around 3am, I think, link is upthread..

 

[MsBetsy]

Nora would have fallen out of the window if she would have attempted to exit it.

Yes, and would have likely landed on her head. Her arms would not have been strong enough to support her when she reached the ground. Even if she had somehow managed to sit on the ledge and turn her body around, she still would have fallen when her feet hit the ground. At that point her quest for the waterfall, if she ever had one, would be over. IMO

 

[Ruthbullock]

Yes, and would have likely landed on her head. Her arms would not have been strong enough to support her when she reached the ground. Even if she had somehow managed to sit on the ledge and turn her body around, she still would have fallen when her feet hit the ground. At that point her quest for the waterfall, if she ever had one, would be over. IMO

But if she didn’t leave independently through the window, then how could someone carry her out of a waist height window that wasn’t fully opened (only partially) (as mum stated in her testimony). If someone broke in through it, why pull it inwards back closed if leaving via the door, or if leaving via the window why then push it back closed? The window still raises so many questions, I do wish the door received as much focus.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Just out of interest, how tall was Nora?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Just out of interest, how tall was Nora?

5ft 4” according to the missing posters

 

[Officer Dibble]

All three windows from the inside

What strikes me from this photo is the wooden step up to the double doors is only seemingly slightly taller than the step up to the window-door thing.

 

[Ruthbullock]

What strikes me from this photo is the wooden step up to the double doors is only seemingly slightly taller than the step up to the window-door thing.

I assumed the wooden thing was a window seat, which would still be much lower than waist height. Or were you talking about a different wooden step?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

5ft 4” according to the missing posters

OK, it's just that read something yesterday in the inquest notes which made me think she was tiny, but she was the same height as me. 5'4" is average for a European female.

"Nora was much obviously much shorter than an average adult. So waist-height for an adult would be getting on to chest height for Nora"

For reference an average Malaysian woman is 5'0" and man 5'5".

 

[Ruthbullock]

OK, it's just that read something yesterday in the inquest notes which made me think she was tiny, but she was the same height as me. 5'4" is average for a European female.

"Nora was much obviously much shorter than an average adult. So waist-height for an adult would be getting on to chest height for Nora"

For reference an average Malaysian woman is 5'0" and man 5'5".

Family of missing Nora Quoirin, 15, reveal she suffers from a debilitating brain condition | Daily Mail Online
This article has a photo of Nora against a door, you can quite clearly see the door handle. She is petite definitely, but not short.

 

[kittythehare]

aha!
Window internally was at floor height but in order to exit would have involved a climb down, a manoeuvre she would have been incapable of making! That must be what they're referencing.
Meabh said: “Nora wouldn’t have left the chalet on her own. Then I saw the window at floor height was open and I told Seb, ‘I think she’s been taken’.

Nora Quoirin's parents still insist she was kidnapped and won't give up

Interesting and something I hadn't known
"The police refused to believe there was a criminal element to Nora going missing. There is a huge stigma around children with special needs in Asia.”

 

[kittythehare]

Meabh also said it was highly unlikely that Nora, who weighed 30kg (4st 10lb), would have been capable of pushing open and climbing out of the bedroom window. Sebastien said Nora had never wandered out of their front door at home.
Nora Quoirin inquest: father says teenager had no survival instinct