Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[Officer Dibble]

I assumed the wooden thing was a window seat, which would still be much lower than waist height. Or were you talking about a different wooden step?

The wooden step/possibly seat under the doors

 

[kittythehare]

I do get it. Highly unlikely yes, but not impossible.

Why argue with experts? They know her condition and they are testifying. @Chiatos is correct.
They are presenting evidence that the feat is impossible. They are not speculating. They actually know the truth and there is zero evidence to suggest they are lying, it's beyond speculation at this stage. They are presenting facts.

 

[insearchoflight]

Why argue with experts? They know her condition and they are testifying. @Chiatos is correct.
They are presenting evidence that the feat is impossible. They are not speculating. They actually know the truth and there is zero evidence to suggest they are lying, it's beyond speculation at this stage. They are presenting facts.

Definitely not arguing with anyone! Just my opinion that it is not impossible. That is all carry on

 

[MsBetsy]

But if she didn’t leave independently through the window, then how could someone carry her out of a waist height window that wasn’t fully opened (only partially) (as mum stated in her testimony). If someone broke in through it, why pull it inwards back closed if leaving via the door, or if leaving via the window why then push it back closed? The window still raises so many questions, I do wish the door received as much focus.

Yes, we don't know if the window was used to exit the house. Maybe someone came in through the window, then opened it to look outside to see if the coast was clear, before leaving through the door.

 

[kittythehare]

Yes, we don't know if the window was used to exit the house. Maybe someone came in through the window, then opened it to look outside to see if the coast was clear, before leaving through the door.

that sounds far more likely, or half closed it before leaving via the door, intending to close it fully so as not to arouse immediate suspicion... am wondering now whether any of the other guests will be testifying

 

[Jax49]

• Head teacher Michael Reeves testified into the inquest into Nora's death today
• Nora attended Garratt Park School in Wandsworth, for special needs children
• The teacher doubted she could climb a fence given her physical limitations
• The family maintain Nora was abducted but police say she climbed out a window
• Nora vanished from Dusun rainforest resort, around 45 miles from Kuala Lumpur, where she had been staying with her parents and siblings on August 4 last year

Nora Quoirin's head teacher tells inquest it is 'unimaginable' she could have climbed a fence | Daily Mail Online

Just jumping off your post, in regard to statement I edited to red.

Did anyone suggest she climbed the fence, which sounds impossible? IIRC, the fence ended and could be walked around.

Missing Nora Quoirin 'could be hiding in Malaysian jungle' | Daily Mail Online

 

[kittythehare]

Just jumping off your post, in regard to statement I edited to red.

Did anyone suggest she climbed the fence, which sounds impossible? IIRC, the fence ended and could be walked around.

Missing Nora Quoirin 'could be hiding in Malaysian jungle' | Daily Mail Online

Which question was his statement in response to?( ETA to correct gender)

 

[Jax49]

Which question was his statement in response to?( ETA to correct gender)

I'm not sure. Just know he was discussing her physical limitations.

The 59-year-old said that he believed had Nora found herself alone in the dark, she would have stopped 'to shout for her parents' and 'stay still wherever she was'.

He added: 'She would have found it [walking over rough terrain] exceptionally difficult even over a short distance,' the BBC reported.

'The idea of Nóra climbing over fencing is unimaginable. She might have climbed over something a foot or so high, but no more than that,' he said.

 

[Pinkxxl]

All the photos I’ve seen online Nora looks a fair bit heavier than 4 stone 10 unless she lost a lot of weight close to her disappearance

 

[Seni]

She was perfectly capable of handling the stairs. She was also perfectly capable of sleeping upstairs wit her siblings.

Ok, (needs an IMO there IMO) lets compare that with a link from the article helpfully provided today

Nora Quoirin's parents still insist she was kidnapped and won't give up

Meabh said: “She could barely keep her eyes open. Their room was on an upper deck up a tricky steep spiral staircase.

Meabh said: “Their argument Nora must have got up to go and find monkeys or butterflies simply was not credible. She could not have even got down that staircase on her own without falling. They wanted to treat it only as a missing persons case.”

 

[kittythehare]

Ok, (needs an IMO there IMO) lets compare that with a link from the article helpfully provided today

Nora Quoirin's parents still insist she was kidnapped and won't give up

Meabh said: “She could barely keep her eyes open. Their room was on an upper deck up a tricky steep spiral staircase.

Meabh said: “Their argument Nora must have got up to go and find monkeys or butterflies simply was not credible. She could not have even got down that staircase on her own without falling. They wanted to treat it only as a missing persons case.”

The first quote is from her mother, possibly under oath at her inquest.
The second is from The Mirror, a less reliable though widely read excuse for a newspaper.

 

[Seni]

The first quote is from her mother, possibly under oath at her inquest.
The second is from The Mirror, a less reliable though widely read excuse for a newspaper.

Both quotes are from the Mirror article, posted by you today and from which you cite the statement "There is a huge stigma around children with special needs in Asia.” to NQ's Mum.

The wind doesn´t blow both ways!

 

[Seni]

Just jumping off your post, in regard to statement I edited to red.

Did anyone suggest she climbed the fence, which sounds impossible? IIRC, the fence ended and could be walked around.

Missing Nora Quoirin 'could be hiding in Malaysian jungle' | Daily Mail Online

Not sure if this answers your question, but from SQ's testimony:

Found Deceased - Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6


- Nora wouldn’t have been able to climb or walk over broken fencing, rocks, water streams. It is unimaginable.

- Nora knew what fences were for. She wouldn’t climb over a fence. She was rule-bound.

 

[kittythehare]

Both quotes are from the Mirror article, posted by you today and from which you cite the statement "There is a huge stigma around children with special needs in Asia.” to NQ's Mum.

The wind doesn´t blow both ways!

The Mirror article was to settle a discussion we were having regarding the height of all the windows from the floor. It looked as though there was a missing window because of the window discussion regarding it being waist level. The quote from her mother regarding the stigma is the very next sentence.
Her mother testified that she was competent to ascend and descend the stairs with ease.

 

[Seni]

The Mirror article was to settle a discussion we were having regarding the height of all the windows from the floor. It looked as though there was a missing window because of the window discussion regarding it being waist level. The quote from her mother regarding the stigma is the very next sentence.
Her mother testified that she was competent to ascend and descend the stairs with ease.

But the article quoting the mother says otherwise (there is also a video interview in that article which we could listen to). I think this is could be an example of the contradictions we have seen.

<modsnip>

IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Ok, (needs an IMO there IMO) lets compare that with a link from the article helpfully provided today

Nora Quoirin's parents still insist she was kidnapped and won't give up

Meabh said: “She could barely keep her eyes open. Their room was on an upper deck up a tricky steep spiral staircase.

Meabh said: “Their argument Nora must have got up to go and find monkeys or butterflies simply was not credible. She could not have even got down that staircase on her own without falling. They wanted to treat it only as a missing persons case.”

That's the first time I've ever read any news article that has quoted Nora's mom as saying she could not have made it down the stairs without falling.

I don't think that's accurate. She specifically said she was able to handle the stairs by herself. I doubt she would have even attempted to go downstairs in the dark, though. Imo

 

[kittythehare]

But the article quoting the mother says otherwise (there is also a video interview in that article which we could listen to). I think this is could be an example of the contradictions we have seen.

And in all fairness, it was not just for the reference to height that this article was quoted.

IMO

Well, I'm the one that posted it , so I know why I posted it.

 

[kittythehare]

That's the first time I've ever read any news article that has quoted Nora's mom as saying she could not have made it down the stairs without falling.

I don't think that's accurate. She specifically said she was able to handle the stairs by herself. I doubt she would have even attempted to go downstairs in the dark, though. Imo

Well all the children went to the toilet before retiring so probably were not expected to use t again before dawn though her 12 yr old sister did.
I think it might have been the heat that brought her downstairs, if that is what happened.
It was extremely hot that night.
But, there is no way of knowing right now, possibly ever.

 

[MsBetsy]

But the article quoting the mother says otherwise (there is also a video interview in that article which we could listen to). I think this is could be an example of the contradictions we have seen.

And in all fairness, it was not just for the reference to height that this article was quoted.

IMO

She didn't even mention the staircase in the video. That was written by the author of the article.

One thing she mentioned which I still think is significant is the response by the police on that first day. It took them at least three hours to arrive at the hotel. They did not even start searching until later that evening, and reportedly ended early. They did not set up a perimeter, or set up road blocks, or stop and question the drivers of vehicles within a specific perimeter.

In any case where a child goes missing, is abducted, or is endangered, the first 24 hours are crucial, especially the first few hours following the disappearance.

Police wasted valuable time in this case. If they had done things differently, she may have been found much sooner, alive.

Imo

 

[kittythehare]

She didn't even mention the staircase in the video. That was written by the author of the article.

One thing she mentioned which I still think is significant is the response by the police on that first day. It took them at least three hours to arrive at the hotel. They did not even start searching until later that evening, and reportedly ended early. They did not set up a perimeter, or set up road blocks, or stop and question the drivers of vehicles within a specific perimeter.

In any case where a child goes missing, is abducted, or is endangered, the first 24 hours are crucial, especially the first few hours following the disappearance.

Police wasted valuable time in this case. If they had done things differently, she may have been found much sooner, alive.

Imo

Most definitely. Time was lost, vital time. I can't even imagine the frantic parents' utter despair and frustration in those early hours and even later, when they didn't come to take fingerprints until the Wednesday?
What evidence had they really that Nora exited f her own volition via the window when it was explained to them that it would not have been possible for tat to happen?
Now that they are hearing it again at the inquest, from an expert, will they maintain the same narrative?