Man Dragged off United Airlines/Flight Overbooked, April 2017

[JaxFlaGal]

I'd be interested in seeing how they'd feel if it happened to them. It's easy to scream about it being logical for a person who has paid for his trip, traveled to the airport, gone through security and bag checks, etc., to calmly get up and depart when the airline decides someone else should have the right to take his place, but it's quite different when it happens to you.

Traveling is stressful. In our economy, many don't have the luxury of missing appointments, days of work, client meetings or losing out on days of vacation just because the airline is greedy.

I heartily agree! And B.S. like what United pulled is why I avoid airline travel as much as possible. If I and my family have a choice between a 5+ hour multi-leg flight and driving 10-20 hours, we'll take the driving. Logic (and statistics) dictate that the flight would be safer than the drive. However, when you factor in odds of flight delays, missed connectors, the math starts to get questionable.

Add to that the abysmal consumer experience that most airlines offer unless one forks over lots to travel first class, and you start to believe that driving yourself and controlling your own travel experience is worth spending the extra time to drive yourself. Nowadays I find that most coach airline travel experiences are significantly worse and more dehumanizing than any other passenger experience I've ever had.

Planes, trains, automobiles, and bus - none have been worse than airlines in the last decade. An economy airline experience is worse now than a 5-hour cross-state economy bus ride used to be in the 80s when I was in college.

I'll drive myself every chance I get now, and have done so from Florida throughout the Northeast and as far west as NV, AZ, CA, CO, and UT. I avoid air travel whenever I can, unless it's one of those rare occasions where there is actually a direct flight, so that my risk of a bad customer experience can be minimized

 

[dotr]

The whole thing is obviously a huge PR mess.
If the airline has to pay out big time and lose many customers, even if they might deserve it, ultimately it the airline goes out of business, there will be fewer choices for travelers and many employees out of work.

Off the cuff PR turn around idea, would be for the airline to have a competition open to the worldwide public, for the best ideas on changes the airline could make to treat customers better. The winner gets a big juicy prize.
They might as well do something like this right now since they are on the news everywhere anyway.

speculation, imo.

 

[HMSHood]

The whole thing is obviously a huge PR mess.
If the airline has to pay out big time and lose many customers, even if they might deserve it, ultimately it the airline goes out of business, there will be fewer choices for travelers and many employees out of work.

Off the cuff PR turn around idea, would be for the airline to have a competition open to the worldwide public, for the best ideas on changes the airline could make to treat customers better. The winner gets a big juicy prize.
They might as well do something like this right now since they are on the news everywhere anyway.

speculation, imo.

There has been a lot of consolidation of airlines recently.

 

[goldenlover]

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[KaaBoom]

Agreed! I also often wonder where does common sense, logic, self-preservation and personal responsibility come in? Jeezopeez! Common sense and logic as in don't mess with someone who can do you harm whether it be a bouncer to throw you out, a law enforcement officer who can arrest you or the person who serves or makes your food. Seriously. Don't poke the bear and then cry victim.

He sounded belligerent before he was touched.

I am in no way condoning how it was handled, but he has to take some responsibility. He could have (and still be righteously po'd) left under his own power with dignity and any tiny sympathy for him just 'flew' out the window.

Because oh, what perfect timing! ::::


"You can drag me down, I'm not going" It's on the news NOW - Video with sound HIS VOICE. HIS responsibility.

Be careful what you wish for.

He did the right thing, He was within his rights. They violated his rights. Now he is going to be a millionaire because of it. Based on what I know now, if I was in that same situation, I would do exactly what he did, and hope they would act the same way.

 

[KaaBoom]

That is your assumption that he mentioned he was a doctor because he "thought it made him more important that other passengers".

Regardless, whether or not you have any sympathy for this guy has no bearing on whether or not what happened was legally defensible or morally correct.

I probably would have done the same thing he did up to the point where they were clearly about to put their hands on me, then I would have agreed to leave.

It is interesting to read how some people interpret his behavior and the conclusions they draw, I have to wonder if people would feel the same way if it was an old woman the same age as him.

IMHO a doctor IS more important than a flight crew. If the flight crew doesn't get to their destination, a flight will be canceled, and the passengers inconvenienced. If a doctor doesn't get to his destination, a patient could die.

 

[CoolJ]

What is all this talk of "denied boarding"?

This man was not denied boarding as far as I can tell as he was already in the plane and issued a seat. It's one thing to do this at the gate and something entirely different to do it on the aircraft.

United screwed up big time there.

 

[KaaBoom]

Going back to being logical, I've always wanted to know a rational explanation as to why do airlines overbook?

Don't we have to pay for our tickets whether we show up or not? What's the problem with a paid-for empty seat?

It's money in their pockets. If you don't show up, they sell the seat to someone else, and get paid twice. They hope you won't show up.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

IMHO a doctor IS more important than a flight crew. If the flight crew doesn't get to their destination, a flight will be canceled, and the passengers inconvenienced. If a doctor doesn't get to his destination, a patient could die.

Fwiw I doubt he's treating critically ill patients considering he's only allowed to practice medicine one day a week and only in an outpatient facility under supervision.

 

[Rocco]

It's money in their pockets. If you don't show up, they sell the seat to someone else, and get paid twice. They hope you won't show up.

Very rarely, if ever. There's always a list of non rev passengers waiting for seats. My son travels non rev all the time and he can pull up what his chances are getting on any flight. For example, If an aircraft holds 50 passengers, they might calculate that the probability is that 3 wont' show up. The list shows there are 15 non rev people on the list for seats. It goes by priority status so he might be listed as #4 out of 15 non rev people who want a seat. If 4 people don't show up instead of their estimate of 3, he gets a seat. If he's #14 on the list, he doesn't bother going to the airport.

 

[Rocco]

Fwiw I doubt he's treating critically ill patients considering he's only allowed to practice medicine one day a week and only in an outpatient facility under supervision.

No kidding. If a patient was at risk of dying, that person would be in the ER or in the hospital---not waiting for an office visit.

 

[Rocco]

Yes. It is very much untrue. $1,350 is the most they can be FORCED to pay. There is no law that forbids a company from reimbursing a customer whatever amount they want over what is capped.

For example, medical malpractice is capped at 250k in California. That doesn't mean a hospital is forbidden from offering more. They just don't have to. A cap is not a prohibition against a company voluntarily going past the cap.

Per the Commerce Clause there are limits to the power to regulate business. That would be an impermissible burden of interstate commerce per the Constitution.

Gate Agents wouldn't be as familiar with the law as you are. My guess is they open their procedure book and read #1) offer money and or a voucher to give up a seat. #2) If that doesn't work, offer, up to a max of x. 3.) If you still don't have any takers, randomly boot passengers. #4.) If they refuse and cause a scene, call a supervisor #5) If the supervisor is unable to resolve the situation and there is a confrontation, call security.

 

[KaaBoom]

Fwiw I doubt he's treating critically ill patients considering he's only allowed to practice medicine one day a week and only in an outpatient facility under supervision.

The airline didn't know that. A doctor on a flight could easily be a surgeon specialist flying someplace to do a life saving operation. I think that makes them a little more important than a deadheading flight crew.

 

[emirates1957]

If the plane doesn't have enough seats, and they offer $400 and a free nite in a hotel, and nobody takes the offer. Then they up it to $800 and the hotel, still no takers. So they tell everyone on the plane, the computer will randomly pick 4 names. How else can it be? Should he have been above the picking because he is a dr? What if I am an attorney with an important case tomorrow? or a parent with kids but no sitter?
should they have asked everyones occupation and income level before naming 4 people?
I agree the planes should not have been overbooked and the employees should have been the first choice to lose their seats. BUT, the guy should have just complied, and settled it in court or with his future business. IMO, he created the disturbance by refusing to get up and walk off the plane.
I have been booted and placed on another airline, still with the compensation money in my pocket, and arrived within hours of my scheduled arrival time.
Life is not perfect. things go wrong. You can go with the flow or kick up a stink.

Just like the leggings issue last week. If you want a free flight, play by their rules, even if you think they don't make sense. If not, just pay for your flight and wear whatever you want to.

JMO, and I know it probably won't be popular.

In catch up mode at the moment. I find it extremely hard to believe that a full flight (was is a 767) that nobody elected to take the money spend a night and get the next burner out. I have worked in the airline industry for 38 years. It doesn't work this way. You are not offered a boarding card ushered to your seat to be offloaded. Once all of the seats have been allocated those remaining at check in go on standby, and are denied before before they get on their flight. A dead heading crew will take priority. My guess is that the dead heading crew came after all pax boarded and they needed one extra seat. Also as a crew member myself the last person you want to offload is a DOCTOR. Crew will always refresh themselves with the manifest especially if it is a long haul flight to see if you have a doctor on board for obvious reasons. As for the attorney he can be utilised later once this man has sued the company for a few million. Gee $800 bucks and a free meal seems. I believe United have been in chapter 11 several times wonder how this will effect the bottom line.

 

[emirates1957]

I just don't give a damn about his past (as it relates to this case).

This is assault and battery. And it's BS.

Still in catch up mode, same don't give a stuff about his past. United are desperate to dig up some dirt to justify their actions.

 

[emirates1957]

He has had quite the troubled past. O.O

"The father of five, who has won sympathy globally over the incident, was given a suspended jail sentence for illegally obtaining and trafficking controlled substances by fraud and deceit....... He was also found to have in engaged in sex with a male patient- Brian Case, who he knew from the church they both attended - and then supplied him with drugs, including Oxycontin, in exchange for sexual favors.

The sexual liaisons, which happened motel rooms, were recorded by undercover agents. He paid $200 in cash each time he met Case.

The secret sex and drugs life of the doctor first came to light in in July 2003 when police alerted the Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure of the allegations against him.

In October 2003 he was indicted by a Jefferson County Grand Jury for 'criminal acts of trafficking in a controlled substance, obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit, and unauthorized prescribing, dispensing or administering of controlled substances'.

His medical license was suspended later that month."


Much more including excerpts from the court mandated psychiatrist's findings at the link.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.dail...gged-United-swapped-drugs-secret-gay-sex.html


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With all due respect I can't see any relevance. Be interesting to learn the crew's history?

 

[emirates1957]

I want to clarify the plane was not overbooked thats just what UA is putting out. They were booked full with paying passengers, they needed 4 crew in the plane's destination city and the next flight wasn't until 3 the next day. So they were kicking off 4 paying passengers for their crew.

IMO they should have never boarded the plane and handled this at the gate. They can refuse boarding at the gate but dragging a man off(regardless of his shady background) is crazy.

My point exactly they should never have boarded the A/C. Maybe he was the last pax to board and sourced for offload.

 

[emirates1957]

On a plane you have to do what you are told and if you don't you're getting removed end of story. TSA don't know the difference between an arrogant person with anger issues and a terrorist.

I said to my colleagues this morning that some dirt would probably could out about this guy, any logical person would stand up and get moving once TSA got on the plane.

A lot of the anger directed at United is unjustified.

Your right on a plane you are required to comply with civil aviation procedures. So he sat down and I assume put his seat belt on said nothing until he was asked to leave. TSA don't know the difference between an arrogant person or terrorist, one way to find out !!!!

 

[emirates1957]

I think he had a concussion after his head was whacked on the armrest. He looked dazed. He likely underwent concussion testing today at some health center.

Possibly associated with shock as well.

 

[emirates1957]

This is the account of a passenger I read about on reddit...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...litzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories#

Thanks for that. U/A also have the option of putting a deadheading crew member into the Jump Seat in the Flight Deck. Screw up on UA's behalf.