Man Dragged off United Airlines/Flight Overbooked, April 2017

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
(quote)
This might sound like it’s coming from left field, but what I’m sensing here — what lies at the root of this unfortunate episode — was a lack of empowerment. There is no reason that an overbooked flight should result in the forced, physical removal of a passenger by law enforcement. There had to be a better solution. Yet nobody came up with one. Why?

Not all flights are routinely overbooked, and for those that are, it’s done in accordance with tracked data that predicts how many people with reservations are actually going to show up. Once in a while, for any number of reasons, those predictions are off, and there are more passengers than seats. When this happens, somebody, one way or the other, has to give up his or her seat. Who that person is will vary with a somewhat complicated seating hierarchy (when you bought your ticket, when you checked in, etc., are among the variables). To avoid it coming to this, carriers will offer a reward, usually in the form of a travel voucher, in exchange for a seat, and usually with the guarantee of a seat on a flight later that day. The value of the reward is incrementally increased until somebody takes the bait. Almost always they find enough volunteers.
http://www.askthepilot.com/passenger-forcibly-removed/

That's correct, all airlines will have a profile built into their booking system allowing a flight to be over booked. Especially if it is a multi class carrier i.e. overbook economy in order to upgrade and fill the flight to capacity (didn't sound like this was a multi class aircraft). In Australia, airlines have a set fee per class per passenger. Same happens with hotels especially over busy festive seasons. Many person have been denied at check in - not sure how many have been yanked out of their BEDS. Never ever in 38 years have I seen anybody denied boarding after they had boarded. On occasion this would happen......if the feds wanted them to actually clear immigration board the flight and then removed into custody.
 
i
i, too, have been bewildered , as well. About his life history. Who cares?

He paid for a seat, got on, and ended up getting assaulted by rent a cops. That is it imo.

Who cares if he had his wisdom teeth removed! Relevance your honor?

exactly.
 
So codesharing makes it interesting.

I'm thinking because this man booked with UA AND UA CEO finally came out and said this will never ever happen again kinda looks like UA taking some of the blame.

I still think this will be settled pretty quickly as long as the Dr. doesn't expect 100's of millions. idk
 
So codesharing makes it interesting.

I'm thinking because this man booked with UA AND UA CEO finally came out and said this will never ever happen again kinda looks like UA taking some of the blame.

I still think this will be settled pretty quickly as long as the Dr. doesn't expect 100's of millions. idk

It bugs me that the media is still saying it was United crewmembers that were trying to get on.

WHy you ask?

Case its flat out wrong.

And a big deal
 
That's correct, all airlines will have a profile built into their booking system allowing a flight to be over booked. Especially if it is a multi class carrier i.e. overbook economy in order to upgrade and fill the flight to capacity (didn't sound like this was a multi class aircraft). In Australia, airlines have a set fee per class per passenger. Same happens with hotels especially over busy festive seasons. Many person have been denied at check in - not sure how many have been yanked out of their BEDS. Never ever in 38 years have I seen anybody denied boarding after they had boarded. On occasion this would happen......if the feds wanted them to actually clear immigration board the flight and then removed into custody.

Its boring but you guys would not believe the algorithms airlines use in terms of managing their load factors ( how full the plane is!) its mind boggling . This is old so its gotten more unreal

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronau...nagement-spring-2006/lecture-notes/lect4b.pdf
 
I remember when I saw this it fascinated me! Old also but neat to think about !

[video=youtube;cMgarcFkXz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMgarcFkXz4[/video]
 
These just cracked me up!!

[video=youtube;6oyQO-H9YxM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oyQO-H9YxM[/video]
 
Adding insult to injury: United did NOT take passenger's bags off his plane after he was dragged off - then sent his luggage to the WRONG address hundreds of miles from where he was hospitalized

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4413610/United-gave-doctor-s-luggage-runaround.html

In Australia, if a person was offloaded ramp personal would physically have to hold it outside the front of the A/C so the Capt acknowledges the offload. In this day and age if we had a bag on board not assigned to a passenger she would have CASA after us, not to mention several people being instantly dismissed.
 
23B09C7F-599F-41BB-A3F7-B0D8839B4D3A@mobilenotes.apple.com


We can only choose our own actions, nobody else.

Nobody bullied me because nobody had to bully me. I understand what you mean and know that bullying happens, but not in my case. I was informed of what was needed and what was requested of me and I chose my action. It was handled really well, both times the attendants were genuinely apologetic and polite. Maybe I was exceptionally fortunate. I've since seen the many videos uploaded by passengers of jerky attendants - yikes.

I could have tried explaining to them why I deserved or needed to keep my seat, but I wasn't any more important or deserving than anyone else on the trip and it wasn't a big deal to me. I could have tried to negotiate with other passengers, I could have been belligerent, balked, argued, whined, begged, cried, lied and caused a ruckus, but that's not me because it does nobody any good. To be clear: I am no shrinking violet nor am I a martyr. I know people are individuals and some definitely try to bully in situations that are difficult, but in both those cases, I chose my action. I knew I could handle it outside of the immediate environment because to do it right then and there would serve no purpose but to delay everyone else. I was more than adequately compensated by both the airline and Amtrak and the people I had contact with were all professional and courteous. Thank you notes were exchanged and I still get the occasional card from one even though he retired years ago.
23B09C7F-599F-41BB-A3F7-B0D8839B4D3A@mobilenotes.apple.com


It's been outrageous to me the evolution in argument of those desperately attempting to support this billion dollar company's ruthless conduct.


First the excuse was that the airline had every right to remove this man from his seat because, well, he entered into a contract with the company and that contract allows them to do whatever they want.


Then when it was explained that the airline's contract regarding delayed boarding doesn't apply to those who already boarded, people tried to claim that you aren't actually boarded unless the plane is in flight.


And when it was pointed out that the man got unnecessarily brutalized when they tried to remove him, "well the space is small and he hit his own face."


When it was shown that physically removing passengers with force is only supposed to happen to passengers who are causing a disruption, the apologists dredged up the man's medical license issues and mental health status as if that justifies what was done to him.


Then it was explained that other passengers seemed to be appalled at the man's treatment and none seemed to state he hit anyone or otherwise caused problems except refuse to move, there were those who tried to say, "well, there are passengers who likely saw him act out but they would never talk to the media for some reason. They would go straight to the police and the airline instead."


When it was explained by lawyers that the contract not only doesn't apply to the situation at thanks but even if it did would not allow assault and battery, or unjust enrichment of the airline in this manner, the excuse was that the legal concepts here are just too complex for regular lawyers to understand.

When it was finally shown that various aviation and legal experts as well as United itself stated that United was, in fact, at fault to drag a resistant man out of his seat once boarded, the corporate defenders accused the man of simply trying to get a payday, and implied that the
man should've simply given in and because he didn't he should've anticipated what happened and not caused unnecessary problems for everyone else. So even if United wasn't right, he was wrong for not giving in. And United HAD to bully him because he didn't obey.


Wow.


I guess some people think quietly acquiescing to the unjust demands of a company that earns billions, simply because they tell you to, is the dignified, mature thing to do. Some people don't find the never ending deterioration of customer service or customer rights to be a problem. Some feel that because a
company has all the power and money, they should be able to do what they want and if you want to give them your business, you need to shut up and obey or you're throwing a tantrum and being a brat. Some people feel that if you don't quietly obey and simply accept just another injustice at the hands of massive corporation, you are risking a beating or worse and get what you deserve. Or what is necessary.

I don't.

I also don't think that refusing to let an entity with more power take advantage of you is stupid. I don't think it's about trying to get a big payout in exchange for a broken face either. Sometimes it's just about not being willing to allow yourself to be victimized.


And make no mistake- a company that profits by billions every year that refuses to let a weary passenger maintain the seat they paid for and get to their destination as planned, merely because the company wants to profit, is not only wrong, it's disgusting. And it's bullying the little guy.


I think that at times, standing for what's right even if it means inconveniencing others is exactly what's needed to prevent further indignities, worse inconvenience and more bilking by those with the power.


I believe this could be the tipping point of Americans finally deciding they're not going to be chumps anymore and are going to start taking back the power from greedy entities.



I hope so.
 


It's been outrageous to me the evolution in argument of those desperately attempting to support this billion dollar company's ruthless conduct.


First the excuse was that the airline had every right to remove this man from his seat because, well, he entered into a contract with the company and that contract allows them to do whatever they want.


Then when it was explained that the airline's contract regarding delayed boarding doesn't apply to those who already boarded, people tried to claim that you aren't actually boarded unless the plane is in flight.


And when it was pointed out that the man got unnecessarily brutalized when they tried to remove him, "well the space is small and he hit his own face."


When it was shown that physically removing passengers with force is only supposed to happen to passengers who are causing a disruption, the apologists dredged up the man's medical license issues and mental health status as if that justifies what was done to him.


Then it was explained that other passengers seemed to be appalled at the man's treatment and none seemed to state he hit anyone or otherwise caused problems except refuse to move, there were those who tried to say, "well, there are passengers who likely saw him act out but they would never talk to the media for some reason. They would go straight to the police and the airline instead."


When it was explained by lawyers that the contract not only doesn't apply to the situation at thanks but even if it did would not allow assault and battery, or unjust enrichment of the airline in this manner, the excuse was that the legal concepts here are just too complex for regular lawyers to understand.

When it was finally shown that various aviation and legal experts as well as United itself stated that United was, in fact, at fault to drag a resistant man out of his seat once boarded, the corporate defenders accused the man of simply trying to get a payday, and implied that the
man should've simply given in and because he didn't he should've anticipated what happened and not caused unnecessary problems for everyone else. So even if United wasn't right, he was wrong for not giving in. And United HAD to bully him because he didn't obey.


Wow.


I guess some people think quietly acquiescing to the unjust demands of a company that earns billions, simply because they tell you to, is the dignified, mature thing to do. Some people don't find the never ending deterioration of customer service or customer rights to be a problem. Some feel that because a
company has all the power and money, they should be able to do what they want and if you want to give them your business, you need to shut up and obey or you're throwing a tantrum and being a brat. Some people feel that if you don't quietly obey and simply accept just another injustice at the hands of massive corporation, you are risking a beating or worse and get what you deserve. Or what is necessary.

I don't.

I also don't think that refusing to let an entity with more power take advantage of you is stupid. I don't think it's about trying to get a big payout in exchange for a broken face either. Sometimes it's just about not being willing to allow yourself to be victimized.


And make no mistake- a company that profits by billions every year that refuses to let a weary passenger maintain the seat they paid for and get to their destination as planned, merely because the company wants to profit, is not only wrong, it's disgusting. And it's bullying the little guy.


I think that at times, standing for what's right even if it means inconveniencing others is exactly what's needed to prevent further indignities, worse inconvenience and more bilking by those with the power.


I believe this could be the tipping point of Americans finally deciding they're not going to be chumps anymore and are going to start taking back the power from greedy entities.



I hope so.

BBM, I certainly hope so too, wherever in the world we reside. Enough is enough already. I can't imagine being on a plane where that could happen, it would be very traumatising, let alone what this poor man has been through. IMO it should of been handled in a much more professional and compassionate way. No one deserves to be bullied and it should never be tolerated.
And excellent post, btw.
 
should just lock this thing up after gitana's last post. i dont think it can be stated any better or clearer.

everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, just stating mine.
 
Brilliant post, Gitana!

What is especially concerning to me... the word "government" could easily be substituted for "corporation". OT, but the shut up and go along, he's a bad person, he's harming others by not submitting, it's not a big deal, I wouldn't have complained mindset is scary, in the context of government, when viewed through an historical lens.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
These just cracked me up!!

[video=youtube;6oyQO-H9YxM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oyQO-H9YxM[/video]

LOVE love love the Child-Free Cabins! omg, #KargoKids toboggans...

Thank you CARIIS :loveyou:
 


It's been outrageous to me the evolution in argument of those desperately attempting to support this billion dollar company's ruthless conduct.


First the excuse was that the airline had every right to remove this man from his seat because, well, he entered into a contract with the company and that contract allows them to do whatever they want.


Then when it was explained that the airline's contract regarding delayed boarding doesn't apply to those who already boarded, people tried to claim that you aren't actually boarded unless the plane is in flight.


And when it was pointed out that the man got unnecessarily brutalized when they tried to remove him, "well the space is small and he hit his own face."


When it was shown that physically removing passengers with force is only supposed to happen to passengers who are causing a disruption, the apologists dredged up the man's medical license issues and mental health status as if that justifies what was done to him.


Then it was explained that other passengers seemed to be appalled at the man's treatment and none seemed to state he hit anyone or otherwise caused problems except refuse to move, there were those who tried to say, "well, there are passengers who likely saw him act out but they would never talk to the media for some reason. They would go straight to the police and the airline instead."


When it was explained by lawyers that the contract not only doesn't apply to the situation at thanks but even if it did would not allow assault and battery, or unjust enrichment of the airline in this manner, the excuse was that the legal concepts here are just too complex for regular lawyers to understand.

When it was finally shown that various aviation and legal experts as well as United itself stated that United was, in fact, at fault to drag a resistant man out of his seat once boarded, the corporate defenders accused the man of simply trying to get a payday, and implied that the
man should've simply given in and because he didn't he should've anticipated what happened and not caused unnecessary problems for everyone else. So even if United wasn't right, he was wrong for not giving in. And United HAD to bully him because he didn't obey.


Wow.


I guess some people think quietly acquiescing to the unjust demands of a company that earns billions, simply because they tell you to, is the dignified, mature thing to do. Some people don't find the never ending deterioration of customer service or customer rights to be a problem. Some feel that because a
company has all the power and money, they should be able to do what they want and if you want to give them your business, you need to shut up and obey or you're throwing a tantrum and being a brat. Some people feel that if you don't quietly obey and simply accept just another injustice at the hands of massive corporation, you are risking a beating or worse and get what you deserve. Or what is necessary.

I don't.

I also don't think that refusing to let an entity with more power take advantage of you is stupid. I don't think it's about trying to get a big payout in exchange for a broken face either. Sometimes it's just about not being willing to allow yourself to be victimized.


And make no mistake- a company that profits by billions every year that refuses to let a weary passenger maintain the seat they paid for and get to their destination as planned, merely because the company wants to profit, is not only wrong, it's disgusting. And it's bullying the little guy.


I think that at times, standing for what's right even if it means inconveniencing others is exactly what's needed to prevent further indignities, worse inconvenience and more bilking by those with the power.


I believe this could be the tipping point of Americans finally deciding they're not going to be chumps anymore and are going to start taking back the power from greedy entities.



I hope so.

:gaah: There is nothing mature about me, I assure you ............:banghead:. I stated my experience, my actions and the outcome.

What is right for me, isn't right for you and others. So what?

Am I to be condemned because I chose to behave in a way that didn't hurt anyone (or myself) or cause anyone else (or myself) distress?
I guess so.

Oh, well. :shrug:
 
I will just leave this here, I think everyone should have a read of this...

https://twitter.com/billypollina/status/853297803597971456/photo/1

I'm not sure that retweet is legit, but I do know it's only an image, not an actual retweet of any account I can find on twitter. Please let me know if the original tweet can be found, I'm not a Twitter user.

http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dragged-off-flight-convicted-of-trading-drugs-for-sex/

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-united-david-dao-20170412-story.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/11/david-dao-doctor-dragged-off-united-flight-was-con/

http://www.snopes.com/2017/04/12/wrong-david-dao/
 
:gaah: There is nothing mature about me, I assure you ............:banghead:. I stated my experience, my actions and the outcome.

What is right for me, isn't right for you and others. So what?

Am I to be condemned because I chose to behave in a way that didn't hurt anyone (or myself) or cause anyone else (or myself) distress?
I guess so.

Oh, well. :shrug:

You couldn't pay me enough money to go through the humiliation of being dragged down the aisle of an aircraft by security with multiple people recording the incident on their phones. Once security arrived, he knew he was getting off, so why not walk down the aisle, voicing his objections, and then file his law suit. The only difference in getting dragged out is a little more drama and a little more money in court, I suppose.

In the end, no one has said UA or security was correct in what they did, including UA, but it seems like we HAVE to agree that this man did absolutely nothing wrong---or else.

I'm with you.
 
I'm not sure that retweet is legit, but I do know it's only an image, not an actual retweet of any account I can find on twitter. Please let me know if the original tweet can be found, I'm not a Twitter user.

It was actually a Facebook post. The publication was shared a lot.

The screenshot you linked is actually a copy and past sharing post. The original one linked this article from The Independent : http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ight-staff-take-seat-ceo-letter-a7677631.html


Legit but incomplete because the link to the article was missing.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
78
Guests online
2,539
Total visitors
2,617

Forum statistics

Threads
603,009
Messages
18,150,218
Members
231,613
Latest member
Kayraeyn123
Back
Top