Man Dragged off United Airlines/Flight Overbooked, April 2017

[CARIIS]

The key words were 'In the end'. After all the information was gathered regarding the rights of the airline and the rights of passengers, no one argued that UA had the right to bump him from his seat once he was seated.

There were people who initially thought that once you bought a confirmed seat, you could not be bumped before boarding. Everyone who has been following along, now knows that that's not the case. Maybe some people didn't learn anything from this thread because they already knew everything, but it seems most people learned a little more than they knew before as more information came out and clarification was made. So once again, as I said, "In the end, no one has said UA or security was correct in what they did, including UA."

Maybe you could respond to the posts of people who are currently defending what the airline did----- I must have missed those posts and I'd be interested in reading them.

Concisely put this is only my opinion, this is about money. Period. We don't know the management climate at Republic airlines.

Of course, they follow the rules. But only mo, if the climate is to allow staff to , in the situation, make some choices this could have been avoided.

Once it became evident that this was escalating, if management was not aggressive, they should have IMO totally moved on from him. Period.


They should have just increased incentive until they accomplished their need.

Maybe some of my beliefs are influenced by career. Of course, there were protocols in terms of dealing with an escalating individual suffering with schizophrenia.

But there were times where one had to be creative. Not follow protocol. It was a judgment call.

Sometimes it might be better to see if it did not escalate by going to a private space

Sometimes for the safty of staff and to the patients, it might be better to have the escalating person taken out to the smoking court .

Sometimes it might have been better to have all the pts go to the smoking court.

Sometimes you needed to call a code to get back off staff.

Sometimes you needed to get the unit off to the gym - out of the unit


Sometimes you needed a nurse to call covering doc for an instant PRN med.

None of these are like in an instant protocol. But if management is not bouncing down , allow your folks to specific incident wise make calls in the moment - our staff will just follow the rules.

Good management - we have to make it to where our staff feels safe in being able to make incident specific choices.

Of course, we reviewed them but it was not (this was not true in all settings!) punitive - it was better next time. -

Only mo but my sense here is it was set in stone that they could not go over XX without being fired

I bet we will find very rigid cooperate climate at Republic airlines

omm

 

[CARIIS]

Republic is an express carrier for United so the buck stops with United.

Here's a list of their partner carriers. If you click on United express aircraft information, you'll see that all the planes say 'United Express'

https://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/AboutUnited/Pages/UnitedExpressPartners.aspx

That is specific to each codeshare agreement. In this instance ( makes sense United has a lot of equipment!. )

Sounds like the contract was we provide the machine at the gate, (painted in our livery), the gate slot.

You provide flight crew, cabin crew etc etc

The livery of the machine has nothing to do with nuances of the agreement.

The codeshare obviously indicated that Republic takes care of flight and cabin crew

Very complicated, vary by segment, time of year, load factors, cost of fuel , gate availability on and on. All calculated out months/years in advance and to the tee!!

 

[CARIIS]

There is only one David Dao licensed in Kentucky. (That I could find anyway.)

http://web1.ky.gov/GenSearch/LicenseSearch.aspx?AGY=5

Hi my friend!

bit lost is this where he was practicing for that day - or are we discovering he was practicing somewhere where he was not licensed to do so?

Does this have any concrete deal with this mess no just curious!!

 

[KaaBoom]

Some have wondered why Dr. Dao didn't just comply with the 'polite' request, so as to save himself the aftermath of his refusal. Why? Because he quite reasonably assumed that the pilot (who was in charge) would just up the ante for other 'volunteers' when they saw that Dr. Dao had no intention of leaving his seat.

He probably reasonably assumed that the pilot (who was in charge) would call HQ to ask how to proceed, and that ultimately some other person would be offered $1000 or more and accept the offer. No one on that plane, nor any of us who have ever flown, nor anyone who is posting on this board has ever seen or heard of a pack of goons coming on board and roughly (roughly enough to cause serious injuries) drag a passenger who was doing nothing wrong off the airplane.

Why didn't the pilot (who is always in charge) review the options for dealing with this? I don't believe I have seen the pilot mentioned in any of this (I could have missed it).

There was another option for this flight to proceed. There were apparently four crew members who needed seats, and the involuntary (but compliant) flyers had surrendered three seats. Why not leave one crew member behind and let Louisville deal with the absence? Surely they can deal with the occasional absence- people do get sick, etc. I don't think it's been made plain that all of the four employees were scheduled for the same flight the next day, anyway.

But the pilot decided that the best thing to do was to manhandle an elderly and unwilling person in order to accommodate that crew. Chicago Airport Security has put one of their employees on suspension pending further investigation. IMO, the pilot should certainly be suspended if not fired.

First I don't believe the pilot had anything to do with it. The matter was being handled by the gates agents. Second, they can't leave one crew member. A flight would need all four crew members, or it wouldn't fly. So sending only three of them would have been pointless.

 

[Morag]

Dr. Dao was on the plane.
. The pilot is in charge of what's happening on the plane- he's not off the hook IMO. We don't know that all four of the late-arriving crew members were scheduled to be on the same Monday flight. As I said above, it shouldn't be too difficult for Louisville to find one substitute crew member.

Incidentally, I checked out American's conditions of carriage:

"American will not involuntarily remove a revenue passenger who has already boarded in order to give a seat to another passenger."
( the above is listed under Oversales on aa.com)

 

[CARIIS]

LOVE love love the Child-Free Cabins! omg, #KargoKids toboggans...

Thank you CARIIS :loveyou:

Aviation lover. I saw these years ago cracked me up. Obviously, I can't post them on a terrorist attack thread now, can i?

This mess resulted in them in being relevant, but humor, in all the messes, is very important IMO.

Obviously, all of us here m know much more than most in terms of how messed up everything is going

so humor needed

my favorite one back then when i saw this campaign ( could there be a Disney connection) was the seats that move!



I am telling ya guys that thing just oh it was so funny to me!

When I first saw the campaign I watched them more than one time -- laughter is needed these days.

The part when the kid yells mom devasted me in hysteria.

I loved at the end when it kept crashing into the wall it reminded me of I robot vacuum !!

Getting rid of the kids my second fav I just loved the seats !!!

And lets be real it was a genius marketing run it was

 

[Tulessa]

You can call a spade, a spade all day long, and some will argue it's a club. I'm not referring to members here, I respect you ALL. IMO United was wrong and should be liable. Again just IMO.

 

[Rocco]

You can call a spade, a spade all day long, and some will argue it's a club. I'm not referring to members here, I respect you ALL. IMO United was wrong and should be liable. Again just IMO.

They have admitted that they were wrong.

 

[CARIIS]

I will just leave this here, I think everyone should have a read of this...

https://twitter.com/billypollina/status/853297803597971456/photo/1

I know nothing , respectfully how old are you? The generation behind me get their "news" from Twitter

do NBC CBS AMC PBS-

Cable news similiar

Twitter is not a news source

again respectfully posted

I understand that is how that age group grew up and what they do

Twitter is not news , it is gossip moo

 

[Morag]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/us/united-passengers-removal.html.
"United staff will no longer take seats of boarded passengers."

 

[Tulessa]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/us/united-passengers-removal.html.
"United staff will no longer take seats of boarded passengers."

Thank you! I was just coming to post this!

 

[kaen]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/us/united-passengers-removal.html.
"United staff will no longer take seats of boarded passengers."

This makes so much sense. Thanks.

 

[FelicityLemon]

re: the moving seats - YESYESYES! At first, I was "cool, looks fun like a carnival ride!" then the part as you said - continued bumping into the wall- I actually laughed out loud DH asked what's so funny?

I never saw these before now (thanks for sharing!!) and I agree that these are genius! It's a fun campaign

:rollercoaster:

Aviation lover. I saw these years ago cracked me up. Obviously, I can't post them on a terrorist attack thread now, can i?

This mess resulted in them in being relevant, but humor, in all the messes, is very important IMO.

Obviously, all of us here m know much more than most in terms of how messed up everything is going

so humor needed

my favorite one back then when i saw this campaign ( could there be a Disney connection) was the seats that move!



I am telling ya guys that thing just oh it was so funny to me!

When I first saw the campaign I watched them more than one time -- laughter is needed these days.

The part when the kid yells mom devasted me in hysteria.

I loved at the end when it kept crashing into the wall it reminded me of I robot vacuum !!

Getting rid of the kids my second fav I just loved the seats !!!

And lets be real it was a genius marketing run it was

 

[Rocco]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/us/united-passengers-removal.html.
"United staff will no longer take seats of boarded passengers."

So if they're changing their policy to now say they will no longer take seats of boarded passengers, their policy before this incident must have been that they did allow them to take seats of boarded passengers.

How can they change a policy that was not legal (as some claim) in the first place? United must have a team of attorneys who review their policies before they're put into effect. Is this the first time in United's history that this issue has come up?

Oh well, Jesse Jackson is on the scene now. I'm sure he'll take care of this in no time flat.

 

[emirates1957]

Really? Never have seen this in flying all over. Maybe on the super cheap airlines?

Same human never seen it before. And really doesn't make any difference if it is a low cost airline, same rules and regulations apply. And as for storing it in First Class I would say good luck with that.

 

[emirates1957]

I did see this, but I have yet to see anything from or about the pilot who was in charge of the flight in question. Was he/she just sitting in his/her seat and leaving all the problems with the flight attendants and the gate agents? He/she should really make a statement, but perhaps United/Republic legal has told him/her to remain schtum.

Our crew would be required to keep their ballistic door closed. Same as an inflight threat the last thing a Pilot will do would be to enter the cabin.....big mistake.

 

[emirates1957]

First I don't believe the pilot had anything to do with it. The matter was being handled by the gates agents. Second, they can't leave one crew member. A flight would need all four crew members, or it wouldn't fly. So sending only three of them would have been pointless.

Your dead right.

 

[Karinna]

United removed couple flying to their wedding after 'switching seats for sleeping passenger'
Yahoo7 News on April 17, 2017, 9:01 am

A US couple en route to their wedding said they were removed from a United Airlines flight by a marshal after they reportedly changed seats to allow a passenger to continue sleeping in their seats.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/3...switching-seats-for-sleeping-passenger/#page1

 

[Rocco]

United removed couple flying to their wedding after 'switching seats for sleeping passenger'
Yahoo7 News on April 17, 2017, 9:01 am

A US couple en route to their wedding said they were removed from a United Airlines flight by a marshal after they reportedly changed seats to allow a passenger to continue sleeping in their seats.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/3...switching-seats-for-sleeping-passenger/#page1

And the other side of the story is:

"These passengers repeatedly attempted to sit in upgraded seating which they did not purchase and they would not follow crew instructions to return to their assigned seats," the spokesman said.

 

[Karinna]

And the other side of the story is:

"These passengers repeatedly attempted to sit in upgraded seating which they did not purchase and they would not follow crew instructions to return to their assigned seats," the spokesman said.

Well from what i could tell the gist of the story is:
(quote)
Michael Hohl and his fiancée Amber Maxwell were flying to Costa Rica for their wedding on Saturday when they boarded a flight at George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston, Texas, to find someone stretched out sleeping in their seats, NBC reports.

The couple decided they would leave the passenger resting, and moved to another row of empty seats they claimed were in the same economy class.
And:
(quote)
When a United flight attendant approached them, the soon-to-be married couple asked if they could be upgraded from their assigned seats but were turned down.

The couple claims they calmly returned to their seats but a short time later a US Marshal appeared on board and escorted the couple from the flight.

So if they returned to their seats as stated and they were compliant, what was the problem to call in a U.S. marshall to remove them from the flight?
And from what i read in the article it was a matter of he said she said. The couple told their story but the airline refuted that story. So who to believe? I certainly wouldn't trust what UA say at the moment after the fiasco with the Dr. they forcibly removed.