Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012

[the quiet girl]

My experience with nail polish in salt water is that it sort of bubbles away from the surface of my nail then kind of peels off within 1 hour. Of course I am active when I'm at the beach so I'm sure that quickens the peeling of the polish. MOO.

I never noticed this! I shall keep an eye out although during the winter I am not at the beach as much down here.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I never noticed this! I shall keep an eye out although during the winter I am not at the beach as much down here.

I'm sure things like quality of nail polish (I tend to use the cheap stuff) and whether or not a base coat and top coat are used in the manicure/pedicure affect how durable the manicure/pedicure is.

Also, when I wrote the previous post, I was thinking of a manicure on my hands. Nail polish on my toes seems to last a little longer on me. If I remember correctly, salt water seemed to affect the top edge of my toe nails mostly, where it peeled. The rest of the polish seemed to remain intact I would say at about the 4-5 hour mark.

My memories of salt water and nail polish are from times spent in the Gulf of Mexico, in the South Padre Island and Corpus Christie areas of Texas. The Gulf in that area is much warmer than the Atlantic. I don't know if water temp affects the durability of a manicure/pedicure.

 

[Peter Brendt]

RSBM.

I try to remain as open-minded as I can about this case, because if I fall in love with any theory, I become blind to other possibilities. However, I find what you've written here very compelling.

Thanks a lot

My only issue is the speed thing, which you seem to view as very important. But serial killers can apparently go dormant for years (BTK, Grim Sleeper, and Joseph Duncan spring to mind) for reasons that nobody fully understands, but opportunity definitely has something to do with it, and maybe stress.

I think, here are two things messed up with each other. When I speak about kill quota it's basically kills/timeunit (week, month, year, whatever you pick) for a SK in his active mode. Of, course, if one goes dormant, his kill speed will during this time go down to zero. But during the active times, the kill speed will always go up till a technical limit is reached (aka he runs out of victims or time). So AC, who was already on a very high speed couldn't go much slower. A little if circumstances were against him, maybe. The interesting thing is, I don't even think, AC was really a psychopath, he was more of a mission-driven type, a black paladin in the making. A short series with fast start has always a touch of rpoving himself for an entirely different purpose.
BTK went dormant, because he found something, that for him was more exciting and satisfying. He married and built a family.
The Grim Sleeper didn't sleep at all, he killed all along, only nobody noticed.
I'm not too familiar with the Joseph Duncan case, but as far as I remember, there were several competing influences that formed him. So we talk here about a little bit a weird psychopathology, even for a serial killer. Still, as in the other cases, it shouldn't be a problem to find out, why he had breaks. In the hindsight, it's always easy.

I think there is a good argument to be made that Manorville was uncomfortable with dismembering. See my previous post about the sloppiness of the mutilated tattoo and also this:

If he was uncomfortable with dismembering, why did he do it three years after the first dismembering again? Because Jessica was the second woman, we know about, he dismembered, not the first.
The mutilation of the tattoo serves in my opinion not as forensic counter measure. For some reasons, I don't know, he disliked this tattoo or it's symbolic. It would have been easy to cut a piece of skin off and nobody would have recognized the tattoo anymore because it would have been gone. But the mutilation as statement demanded, that the tattoo basically remained recognizable. It's kind of a message, he didn't like it and it wouldn't have worked if he would have burned the paper, or in this case skin, wouldn't it?

"Taylor’s torso was left literally yards away from the main road and uncovered. Police have said she was found on a plastic sheet as though someone dragged or pushed her out of the car and then drove off." (from Long Island Press)

All older articles described the torso sitting on a pile of wood. Which is staging. And so does by the way the one you're linked. I quote:
"Taylor’s body was found off Halsey Manor Road out in the open on a pile of sticks and wood just off a paved access road to a sump."
Third section, 4th paragraph. So, well, I say still, her torso was staged on a pile of woods. The other thing with the plastic refers to the other part of her remains. For unknown reasons, those guys have a thing with torsos, that's why they are also known as "torso-killers".

That doesn't sound so much like staging to me. It sounds like someone uncomfortable with touching the torso again. More sloppiness.[/QUOTE]

Well, I quoted from the article, you linked the part, that shows, it was staging and not sloppiness.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Only because they got lucky with the tattoo. Someone remembered it.

What makes me wonder in the first place, did the killer expect them to be identified or not?

 

[Peter Brendt]

Maybe the killer intentionally let the tattoo angel-wing bee, because he felt that now HIS victim, Jessica Taylor, was HIS angel, but absolutely NOT "Remy's Angel" (that is what was written in the erazed part of the tattoo), so he erazed the wording "Remy's Angel", but let the angel-wing stay intact.

Maybe the killer had some kind of sick fantasy that when he killed thise, in his opinion sinful woman, they became angels.

Concerning the Atlantic City murders; I wonder if there is any religious/spiritual/occult rules/laws about angels facing east?

I don't know about Angels facing east, but facing east was once, up till like 15 centuries ago a part of Christian religion as well and became fashionable about 1196 (after Pope Urban's call to the crusades) for about two centuries more. I don't know about churches here in the US, but in Europe, most cathedrals are built with the altar to the east.
However, there is nothing with no shoes in Christian history except Emperor Henry II and the unspeakable Canossa story.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I found this and it is is in the Mormon faith: http://www.patheos.com/Library/Mormonism/Ritual-Worship-Devotion-Symbolism/Symbolism.htmlhttp://

Snippet " . . . . Mormon temples typically are topped by a large golden statue of an angel blowing a trumpet. This angel, named Moroni, . . . . represented on the temples as holding a trumpet with which to declare the true religion. In a reflection of Mormonism's apocalyptic roots, the angel statues on the temples face east in anticipation of Christ's second coming.

This too: http://www.unexplainedstuff.com/Superstitions-Strange-Customs-Taboos-and-Urban-Legends/Strange-Customs-and-Taboos-Burials-and-funerals.html

Snippet "The religious service associated with many modern funerals quite likely originated in .... face toward the east, because of the old custom of facing the east when praying. ... "

;}

That;s the same Christian root, I mentioned earlier. Didn't know, the Mormons do it still. However, please, don't stare on the faces east and forget the positioning on the belly and the missing shoes. We talk three details here, not only one.

 

[Tugela]

Especially, since both were probably killed at the same time, for JD6 is the mother of the child, right? Well, you can pretend to be not aware or not to see, but then ... it's still there.

The mother and child dieing at the same time is an assumption. The time of death might be very different, even years apart for all we know. All you can say really is that probably the same person dumped them there.

 

[nugzter]

The mother and child dieing at the same time is an assumption. The time of death might be very different, even years apart for all we know. All you can say really is that probably the same person dumped them there.

The problem I am having with the baby is, why were the baby and the mother dumped in separate locations? And the baby placed close to a different victim as the mother?
Lets say there were no other bodies found but the mother and baby. What would that mean to investigators?
So now lets add the scenerio thet the mother and baby were not killed by the SK. Is it just chance about the locations in relation tho the SK dumping grounds?
Finally, lets add in that the mother and baby are victims of the SK. Why were the baby and the mother dumped in separate locations? And the baby placed close to a different victim as the mother?
Using the final scenerio and the most likely, from what LE says is most likely the case, is that the mother and baby are victims of the SK. Is the baby a message to show LE that the two female adult victims are connected to the same killer? Could the baby be the clue to the one SK theory for LE?

 

[truthspider]

Maybe the killer intentionally let the tattoo angel-wing bee, because he felt that now HIS victim, Jessica Taylor, was HIS angel, but absolutely NOT "Remy's Angel" (that is what was written in the erazed part of the tattoo), so he erazed the wording "Remy's Angel", but let the angel-wing stay intact.

Maybe the killer had some kind of sick fantasy that when he killed thise, in his opinion sinful woman, they became angels.

you mean like..... "war heroes, like women who die during child birth, go straight to heaven" kinda thing?

from The Last Happy Hour

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Good morning. This is my first time looking at this thread but being a Jersey gal that been to AC on numerous occasions (especially as a child going to the Steel Pier), and having a best friend that grew up in the Stony Brook section of LI, well I couldn't help but follow this case with every newscast. I believed as soon as the bodies found off the GSP were discovered that they were linked to the LI bodies & a serial killer. I wonder with the mention of the torso being placed on wood & other parts found "washed ashore", then considering the East placement & shoe issue - could the SK be displaying proper ancient Feng Shui? It appears as though the SK is covering the 5 elements. With some parts missing, I wonder if there's other parts out there that just haven't been linked yet but pertain to metal & fire. Wood, Earth & Water have been covered. East direction involving good soil for good Qi has been covered. Grave placement faces East, NorthEast to be exact. Just brainstorming, only trying to help think it through without attempting to reason why a SK would do what he/she does. I fully agree that the body part placements are staged.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Peter Brendt - Hi.

You talked about statistics & how wrong they could be when used in a more general sense. I agree. One of the things I find interesting is that the general consensus was that the SK could be Caucasian. It was also mentioned that LI is 70% Caucasian. Well a good friend of mind is a Jewish Italian, grew up in Stony Brook, still has alot of family there, and she tells me there is ALOT of Asians that live and/or go to school there. In the back of my head is lodged this idea that maybe there's an Asian pimp, or Eastern European trafficking network, that is "getting rid of" some used goods to show an example to other employees to do their jobs & don't give trouble or else... *If* Feng Shui plays a part in bodypart placement, it's a very big part of life in Chinese culture. I know others practice it as well, just sayin' it does make me wonder.

I know I came in late in these threads so maybe I'm completely off base anyway.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Good morning. This is my first time looking at this thread but being a Jersey gal that been to AC on numerous occasions (especially as a child going to the Steel Pier), and having a best friend that grew up in the Stony Brook section of LI, well I couldn't help but follow this case with every newscast. I believed as soon as the bodies found off the GSP were discovered that they were linked to the LI bodies & a serial killer. I wonder with the mention of the torso being placed on wood & other parts found "washed ashore", then considering the East placement & shoe issue - could the SK be displaying proper ancient Feng Shui? It appears as though the SK is covering the 5 elements. With some parts missing, I wonder if there's other parts out there that just haven't been linked yet but pertain to metal & fire. Wood, Earth & Water have been covered. East direction involving good soil for good Qi has been covered. Grave placement faces East, NorthEast to be exact. Just brainstorming, only trying to help think it through without attempting to reason why a SK would do what he/she does. I fully agree that the body part placements are staged.

Hi Jersey*Girl! Great reading you again!

This is an intriguing theory re: the elements. I've had a hunch this killer killer travels the east coast and possibly other areas when the heat is on. The 4 who were murdered in Daytona Beach in 2006 were all shot in the head. (metal) There were 4 murdered in Michigan around the time LE conducted the last search for SG in Dec. Those 4 were found in two burned out cars with 2 victims in each car. (fire) 3 of those victims advertised on Craigslist and/or backpage.

JMO

wm

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Wow, I just gave myself goosebumps. I know it's a long shot, even mores bc this is coming from Wiki, but look what I just came across - again, probably nothing but thought it was ironic with the mention of Fung Shui... NYCHP is on LI. Again, doesn't mean anything, only noting it was mention on Wiki (right under Trump & Disney). Could the LISK be a buddiist or practicing Fung Shui freak?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feng_shui
Snipped:
At Singapore Polytechnic and other institutions like the New York College of Health Professions, many students (including engineers and interior designers) take courses on feng shui every year and go on to become feng shui (or geomancy) consultants.[55]

 

[Jersey*Girl]

WM- thank you & glad to be back...needed a break. That's interesting what you posted. Thanks!

 

[Just K]

So, another week passes and there is no comment on LE after retrieving yet another body from Manorville?

Manorville (2000-2003 est) is different from GB4 in that it is truly more of a "dump" site. The victims were treated like trash and disposed of either amongst trash or some their body parts were found in actual trash bags. The bodies, torsos and body parts were dumped like trash...in one case even amongst the trash.

AC (Fall 2006) the 4 clothed bodies were fairly evenly placed face in a drainage ditch (with heads turned eastward) but still lying amongst, trash, litter and other debris. They were placed between two major roadways...the old main drag and the newer expressway. A copy of the book "Beach Road" lay near one of the victims.

GB4 (2007-2010) the 4 victims were found evenly spaced, off the shoulder of the Ocean Parkway (Bay side v. Oceanside) and wrapped in burlap, a hair shirt of sorts.

The four "random" victims or parts of victims found (mother & baby, Jane Doe next to baby and the cross dressing male) seem very much less organized and "Scattered." They also had personal items left on their remains. (The Baby & Mother had jewelry and the male had clothes. LE has not said whether any of the others had clothing or personal items on or found with the remains.

Then there are the, so far, unconnected suitcase and container cases. There is Peaches, Cherries, the male, iirc, found in the bay and in a suitcase in 2011. Then there are all the others found in suitcases left by the side of highways, washed up on the shores and/or found in parks (Tanya Rush being one of them.)

If this is one killer, he/she may simply just toy with all the ways to dispose of his victims. It seems much more plausible that he/she found much tidier ways to do his or her handiwork and perhaps even saw it as an evolution to his earlier work.

 

[Peter Brendt]

The mother and child dieing at the same time is an assumption. The time of death might be very different, even years apart for all we know. All you can say really is that probably the same person dumped them there.

Lets put your logic to a test:

Scenario A: Mother dies years before the baby
How long do you think, can a child that little survive without mother? Not long unless the child is found alive in time by others and taken care fore. But in that case, we would have somewhere an article of a child found somewhere who's mother has gone missing and this case would have been linked to this murder case a long time ago. So we know, the baby didn't die "years apart" from the mother in this direction.

Scenario B: Baby died years before the mother
You would think, the mother would have reported the child missing. Which, since it would be not a regular missing persons report but a child, caused Amber alerts, press attention, big search operations, the whole shebang. We would have found by now old articles in the news archives. We didn't.

So to assume, the times of death are at best hours apart form each other is the logical assumption. Of course, it's an assumption, but then, all other options are impossible.

 

[Peter Brendt]

The problem I am having with the baby is, why were the baby and the mother dumped in separate locations? And the baby placed close to a different victim as the mother?
Lets say there were no other bodies found but the mother and baby. What would that mean to investigators?
So now lets add the scenerio thet the mother and baby were not killed by the SK. Is it just chance about the locations in relation tho the SK dumping grounds?
Finally, lets add in that the mother and baby are victims of the SK. Why were the baby and the mother dumped in separate locations? And the baby placed close to a different victim as the mother?
Using the final scenerio and the most likely, from what LE says is most likely the case, is that the mother and baby are victims of the SK. Is the baby a message to show LE that the two female adult victims are connected to the same killer? Could the baby be the clue to the one SK theory for LE?

Uhhhh ... you notice, that JD6 (or 2000) was not completely found at Gilgo Beach? So given the distance between JD6's torso and the rest of her remains, the child was found pretty near ... somewhat.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Good morning. This is my first time looking at this thread but being a Jersey gal that been to AC on numerous occasions (especially as a child going to the Steel Pier), and having a best friend that grew up in the Stony Brook section of LI, well I couldn't help but follow this case with every newscast. I believed as soon as the bodies found off the GSP were discovered that they were linked to the LI bodies & a serial killer. I wonder with the mention of the torso being placed on wood & other parts found "washed ashore", then considering the East placement & shoe issue - could the SK be displaying proper ancient Feng Shui? It appears as though the SK is covering the 5 elements. With some parts missing, I wonder if there's other parts out there that just haven't been linked yet but pertain to metal & fire. Wood, Earth & Water have been covered. East direction involving good soil for good Qi has been covered. Grave placement faces East, NorthEast to be exact. Just brainstorming, only trying to help think it through without attempting to reason why a SK would do what he/she does. I fully agree that the body part placements are staged.

I have no idea about Feng Shui. Can you elaborate a little bit more on it? What would he try to achieve by that picture? Where would be the "reward" for him in this?

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter Brendt - Hi.

You talked about statistics & how wrong they could be when used in a more general sense. I agree. One of the things I find interesting is that the general consensus was that the SK could be Caucasian. It was also mentioned that LI is 70% Caucasian. Well a good friend of mind is a Jewish Italian, grew up in Stony Brook, still has alot of family there, and she tells me there is ALOT of Asians that live and/or go to school there. In the back of my head is lodged this idea that maybe there's an Asian pimp, or Eastern European trafficking network, that is "getting rid of" some used goods to show an example to other employees to do their jobs & don't give trouble or else... *If* Feng Shui plays a part in bodypart placement, it's a very big part of life in Chinese culture. I know others practice it as well, just sayin' it does make me wonder.

I know I came in late in these threads so maybe I'm completely off base anyway.

The assumption, LISK is white, is based on two things:
The "White dude" testimony from Melissa's little sister after the phone calls he made. Which isn't conclusive in the first place because an half-way educated African-American wouldn't sound different.
The thing commonly believed to be knowledge, that serial killers are typically white aka Caucasian. Which is just result of another misused statistics.

On the other side: LE and a lot of people here do the rain dance about their imagination of local white single serial killer between 25-85 years now since over a years. They got nothing and still turn in circles. So in my opinion, every thought outside of the box is at least worth to have a look at it.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Wow, I just gave myself goosebumps. I know it's a long shot, even mores bc this is coming from Wiki, but look what I just came across - again, probably nothing but thought it was ironic with the mention of Fung Shui... NYCHP is on LI. Again, doesn't mean anything, only noting it was mention on Wiki (right under Trump & Disney). Could the LISK be a buddiist or practicing Fung Shui freak?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feng_shui
Snipped:
At Singapore Polytechnic and other institutions like the New York College of Health Professions, many students (including engineers and interior designers) take courses on feng shui every year and go on to become feng shui (or geomancy) consultants.[55]

Well, maybe not so much the LISK, but Manorville ...