Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012

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This latest set of Manorville remains was found on North Street. If you look at Google or Bing maps, if you go a little further east on North Street, it then becomes Mill Street. Mill Street runs all the way to Halsey Manor where Taylor's remains were found. If the killer is the same, it appears this is an area he's familiar with.

Interestingly, there is a business named K-9 Search & Detection that was at 146 North St in Manorville, where they trained police dogs for narcotics & explosives detection.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...bd463be09dc681c&biw=1024&bih=653&ix=seb&ion=1


and here is one of their flyers

http://www.k9narcotics.com/images/k9flyer.pdf
 
if the killer wanted to go 300 feet in from the road, how far is that ? about 1/2 block?

you would use the bag and blanket to protect the trunk of the car or floor of vehicle, and also to drag the body to the site.

this is super creepy, but is anyone suprised?

300 feet= 100 yards isn't that a football field?

btw scandi thank you for that beautiful comment!
 
:coffeews: I really think we are looking for a large, physically fit male, or a very strong male in his mid fifties. Think of how many years he has been doing this...he developes new fantasy's and methods over the years, maybe sometimes he doesn't even know why he is doing some of the things he is doing...he does what feels comfortable or neat enough...maybe he trys dismemberment for safteys sake, he felt paranoid for a time and got over it.

I think he is neat and ocd.

he knows how to clean up after himself....

I think it's all one guy...and btw...where is the COD for our Shannan?
 
:coffeews: I really think we are looking for a large, physically fit male, or a very strong male in his mid fifties. Think of how many years he has been doing this...he developes new fantasy's and methods over the years, maybe sometimes he doesn't even know why he is doing some of the things he is doing...he does what feels comfortable or neat enough...maybe he trys dismemberment for safteys sake, he felt paranoid for a time and got over it.

I think he is neat and ocd.

he knows how to clean up after himself....

I think it's all one guy...and btw...where is the COD for our Shannan?

Hi Minazoe and everyone. I think LE probably considered SG's death before putting out the drowning statement. But to me something about that seems off. Maybe what they considered is that would have more of a calming effect on the community than that she was murdered? And unless a person is losing their mind because of hypothermia, I seriously doubt they would take off their pants. I guess this belongs on another thread.

I agree w/ the one SK theory, at least for most of these murders. Or maybe two people working together. I also would not be shocked if some type of organized crime or gang is involved.....but in my opinion it would be that in addition to a SK.
 
did anyone see a recent story about a female hypothermia victim...? they thought she was a homocide but on furthur examination they discovered hypothermia...hmmm. She had hidden inside or under a tree stump or something really odd.... This victim had a history of some mental illness.

I guess we have to force ourselves to remember it could happen, although I still don't like it.

I hope they come out with results this week.
 
I did see that and the fallen tree she used for shelter. It was not submersed in water from what I saw.
 
did anyone see a recent story about a female hypothermia victim...? they thought she was a homocide but on furthur examination they discovered hypothermia...hmmm. She had hidden inside or under a tree stump or something really odd.... This victim had a history of some mental illness.

I guess we have to force ourselves to remember it could happen, although I still don't like it.

I hope they come out with results this week.

We had a husband and wife lost in the Coast Range last week and they were found in a big hollow tree. That probably saved their lives as they were hypothermic too.




ETA: YIKES, don't want to write another post LOLOLOL I have seen several blurbs on TV today about the remains found in Manorville last Fri and how LE is studying to see if this is one of the LISK's killings. We might have to start a thread on this new find.
 
I've edited the thread title to reflect the remains found in Manorville on Friday. Let's use this thread for that discussion. Some posts have been moved here from other threads.
 
:coffeews: I really think we are looking for a large, physically fit male, or a very strong male in his mid fifties. Think of how many years he has been doing this...he developes new fantasy's and methods over the years, maybe sometimes he doesn't even know why he is doing some of the things he is doing...he does what feels comfortable or neat enough...maybe he trys dismemberment for safteys sake, he felt paranoid for a time and got over it.

I think he is neat and ocd.

he knows how to clean up after himself....

I think it's all one guy...and btw...where is the COD for our Shannan?

I'm still on the fence about whether I think its one killer(s) or more. However, I too get the feeling we are not looking for someone very young here (under 40) for any of the murders. It's just a hunch. JMHO.

About the differing MOs and types of dumps, I don't really think much of it. Most serial killers that I've read about who have had more than a few victims do/did change their approach from time to time or in different stage of their "career" (I hate that term for this).
 
IMHO, the perp is in his mid-late 30s. Possibly early 40s. Just a hunch if it's also the LI perp.
 
IMHO, the perp is in his mid-late 30s. Possibly early 40s. Just a hunch.

Lets sort that our a little:

- Manorville has some sadistic aspects, LISK doesn't has.

- true, SKs have changed MO in the past, it is not uncommon. But in all cases I know, it was escalation and honing. Never de-escalating. The only situation, I know, when the kill number goes up and the work becomes sloppier, less elaborate is, when psychopaths enter the spiraling phase. So, if anyone of the many arguing, SKs changed MOs like in this case, would prvide at least one example of an SK who went down in violence, instead of up, it would may help to make this a bit clearer. I know not one, but then, I haven't met all of them.

- Manoville is around for many years. The first body, or rather parts of it, appeared in 2000 with an already fully developed signature. Since other body parts of the same victim popped up in 2011 in LI, we know, he has kept them (because I doubt, those parts were there all the time, they would have been decomposed beyond recognition). So well, we know, he had already in 2000 means of conservation, which makes him highly organized and driven only by his own urges.

- LISK on the other hand has no really clear signature. Basically, he is just Strangler 101 and the only noticeable thing is, no evidence for blunt force trauma, no other torture marks as far as we know and the burlap wrap. All together, in my opinion, that puts him in the medium degree of organization.

- Both nevertheless have some things in common:

- Their significant victims are the females. With them, they put some effort in the killing and disposal.

- Male victims appear to be just discarded. In the years Manorville was active there, also two males popped up, both not dismembered. And we have still the unidentified Asian in a dress, who died from blunt force trauma. Since Manorville hunted for street corner prostitutes, he was the one, who had to pick in not to well lit areas. Which makes the mistake to pick up a crossdressing male prostitute understandable. LISK wouldn't come into that trouble, because his victims were Craigslist escorts. Ads with pictures, well lit, it would take some extremely good work for a transvestite to look there really entirely female. And since LISK in my opinion showed some hints on being a stalker type, he would have had more time to observe. So my guess is, the Asian goes on Manorville's account and that guy was really angry when he found out.

So bottom line: We look at two

- Manorville, probably now in his early fifties rather than in his late forties. Still somewhat fit, but way too intelligent to carry a body around for 300 ft into the brushes if he can avoid it or use technical help.

- LISK, who is really fit, I said so early last year already. He is in the end 20s, early 30s now (the 25-35 bracket)

And there is some dynamic between those two going on, but I doubt, it's cooperation or friendship in any form. When LISK got all the media attention, the parts, Manorville spread over LI suddenly popped up. They haven't been there all the time. If a part of Jane dow would have been out there on the beach for 11 years, there would have been not much that could have been found. In fact, I heard too many details, from remaining intact DNA to color of the toenails and scars, to believe for a moment, decomposition of those body parts was too advanced at all.
So, what happened? Did Manorville spread some parts of his private collection at the beach to get his share of the fame? In fact, that wouldn't be the first time, such a behavior happens. With unsubs, that are somewhat compatible, it can take the form of some friendly communication (see Alcala and the Hillside Stranglers), but most likely and especially, if the extreme form of a staging dismemberer is involved, such competitions end usually with the abrupt end of the "career" of the competitor (See London Torso II and Jack the Ripper for an example).
So one more bottom line: There were two of them, at least till early 2011 ...
The question is, are there still two? This would mean, Manorville is back from hibernation and LISK has found another place for the bodies. Or is there now only one left? Then my bet would be, the old guy made the race because he is cleverer and a thousand times more brutal and savage than this newbie could even imagine. We will see when the next female bodies pop up.
 
I should of clarified my previous post by saying if the Manorville perp (of this current body) & LI perp are the same person. I do think the LI perp is in his mid- late thirties. Possibly early 40s. I could see early 30s possibly. JMO.
 

Just what if the Sk killer was working alone for a time till he met a young impressionable one, this makes sense to me, see if the older one is admired by the apprentice, he may be angry that his mentor just strangles & makes it last where his culprit has a more deranged outlook & carves, dismembers....

Body parts were found on Fire Island....that may wreck Identity issue, homosexual in general......
If it is two than I can see that type of imaging...like the hillside stranglers...the younger cousin went out & started killing on his own.....what if the partners decided to part there ways????

Or did he evolve & have anger issues??? Maybe angry because he hated he was homosexual & every girl who stepped into the dark side paid with there lives

He enjoys his power & what he does....strangling sadists bring victim back retraumatize & restrangle....

Is it he did not want to leave blood or kill in a place where he did not have the option to dismember

It could still be one....just under different living conditions & the Port auth is a key to the bl street drugged girl......that was a fast common place....this craigs list gave a who new twist he needed patience...he conned, used his socio pathic skill & the new high was recieving trust the ultimate Con, believing his con.....Just like how ridgeway would say stop fighting & I will stop ....than BTK said be quiet I will not hurt your children...they get off on being believed even while being tortured....really sick
 
I find it interesting there are 13 people on this page currently & only 4 are members, the rest are guests....very interesting
 
Lets sort that our a little:

- Manorville has some sadistic aspects, LISK doesn't has.

- true, SKs have changed MO in the past, it is not uncommon. But in all cases I know, it was escalation and honing. Never de-escalating. The only situation, I know, when the kill number goes up and the work becomes sloppier, less elaborate is, when psychopaths enter the spiraling phase. So, if anyone of the many arguing, SKs changed MOs like in this case, would prvide at least one example of an SK who went down in violence, instead of up, it would may help to make this a bit clearer. I know not one, but then, I haven't met all of them.

SBM... great post Peter - as always! I have had the exact same thoughts. Maybe we have a situation where a guy who was in his early 20's when the Manorville killings started, but is now an older, more confident killer who doesn't think he has to work as hard to hide is handi-work. The killer of the early Manorville victims disposed of his victims by trying to hide their identity, i.e. dismemberment and disfigurement of identifying marks. I think it is interesting that he did not bury his victims - he left them either "posed" on the ground, or placed in garbage bags and thrown into the brush on Long Island. The killer of the GB4 "posed" his victims in burlap bags, evenly spaced along the side of the parkway. The only clue we have about his degree of violence, is that he used strangulation on at least one of the victims. The common factors between Manorville and LI include the profile of the victims, and the manner of disposal - out in the open where they will definitely eventually be found..... and where he can drive by and revel in his little secret.
 
SBM... great post Peter - as always! I have had the exact same thoughts. Maybe we have a situation where a guy who was in his early 20's when the Manorville killings started, but is now an older, more confident killer who doesn't think he has to work as hard to hide is handi-work. The killer of the early Manorville victims disposed of his victims by trying to hide their identity, i.e. dismemberment and disfigurement of identifying marks. I think it is interesting that he did not bury his victims - he left them either "posed" on the ground, or placed in garbage bags and thrown into the brush on Long Island. The killer of the GB4 "posed" his victims in burlap bags, evenly spaced along the side of the parkway. The only clue we have about his degree of violence, is that he used strangulation on at least one of the victims. The common factors between Manorville and LI include the profile of the victims, and the manner of disposal - out in the open where they will definitely eventually be found..... and where he can drive by and revel in his little secret.
I agree that since he is older now, he may feel more confident. I read that the AC4 were posed but never read anything about the GB4 being posed. I might have missed that somewhere though.
 
I agree that since he is older now, he may feel more confident. I read that the AC4 were posed but never read anything about the GB4 being posed. I might have missed that somewhere though.

By posed, I meant wrapped in burlap and placed evenly apart.... we really don't know too much about the condition of the bodies. I should have been more clear, and made my previous statement clear that in my opinion, they were posed along the road he drives so he could easily see where they were. :twocents: Oh, and Welcome to WS's to all of our new members!!! :seeya:
 
I should of clarified my previous post by saying if the Manorville perp (of this current body) & LI perp are the same person. I do think the LI perp is in his mid- late thirties. Possibly early 40s. I could see early 30s possibly. JMO.

IF they would be the same person, which, as I wrote, I don't believe, he would be rather late 40s early 50s. In 2000, almost 12 years ago, he showed off already a fully blown signature, a high degree in routine in dismembering a body, knowledge about preservation of body parts and a some knowledge about how to stage a torso without leaving any trace more than he wanted to. This degree of experience comes over night. Also not over a year or two. He was in 2000 already in the business for a long time and he is now almost 12 years older.
Which of course poses the question, why he would be nowadays act on such a technically lower level at all?
 

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