Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012

[still]

One can wonder how he placed the bodies so evenly apart. Did he literally pace by foot the distance,or use a tape measure or gps as someone in the past mentioned?

 

[SmoothOperator]

Sounds as tho its possible we may have a victim for the elusive year of 2008.. Course we won't know til we have a more accurate time frame.. But definitely possible imo that they're from the year 2008...

Also not local but have seen several different comments stating the remains were extremely close to where the earlier remains were found... Not miles apart as the articles claim...

 

[snowstar]

One can wonder how he placed the bodies so evenly apart. Did he literally pace by foot the distance,or use a tappe measure or gps as someone in the past mentioned?

I wondered if he might have used mile markers or some kind of landmarks.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

IF they would be the same person, which, as I wrote, I don't believe, he would be rather late 40s early 50s. In 2000, almost 12 years ago, he showed off already a fully blown signature, a high degree in routine in dismembering a body, knowledge about preservation of body parts and a some knowledge about how to stage a torso without leaving any trace more than he wanted to. This degree of experience comes over night. Also not over a year or two. He was in 2000 already in the business for a long time and he is now almost 12 years older.
Which of course poses the question, why he would be nowadays act on such a technically lower level at all?

I was speaking specifically of the body that was just found on Friday -if it's determined that the body recently found was murdered by the current LI perp.

I don't possess enough knowledge of the Manorville murders (the ones previous to the body found on Friday) to have an opinion of who might of murdered them.

I am still of the opinion (Non-Expert) that the LI perp is most likely in his mid-late 30s, Maybe up to mid 40s, due to the possibility of the perp having knowledge of IT/Computer/Communications Tech (although that is not the only reason for my opinion). I am not certain of the level of knowledge and expertise yet. I do accept that it's possible that the perp could be younger or older than the age range I have given and that I could be completely wrong about my opinion.

 

[snowstar]

I was speaking specifically of the body that was just found on Friday -if it's determined that the body recently found was murdered by the current LI perp.

I don't possess enough knowledge of the Manorville murders (the ones previous to the body found on Friday) to have an opinion of who might of murdered them.

I am still of the opinion (Non-Expert) that the LI perp is most likely in his mid-late 30s, Maybe up to mid 40s, due to the possibility of the perp having knowledge of IT/Computer/Communications Tech (although that is not the only reason for my opinion). I am not certain of the level of knowledge and expertise yet. I do accept that it's possible that the perp could be younger or older than the age range I have given and that I could be completely wrong about my opinion.

Hopefully they will release more information on the recent remains found in Manorville.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

IF they would be the same person, which, as I wrote, I don't believe, he would be rather late 40s early 50s. In 2000, almost 12 years ago, he showed off already a fully blown signature, a high degree in routine in dismembering a body, knowledge about preservation of body parts and a some knowledge about how to stage a torso without leaving any trace more than he wanted to. This degree of experience comes over night. Also not over a year or two. He was in 2000 already in the business for a long time and he is now almost 12 years older.
Which of course poses the question, why he would be nowadays act on such a technically lower level at all?

Just to clarify, do you think that Jane Doe 2000 was murdered by someone other than the LI perp? Do you think that the Asian male found in LI was murdered by someone other than the LI perp as well?

I think I might be getting confused as to what you mean about the Manorville perp and murders.

 

[snowstar]

Sounds as tho its possible we may have a victim for the elusive year of 2008.. Course we won't know til we have a more accurate time frame.. But definitely possible imo that they're from the year 2008...

Also not local but have seen several different comments stating the remains were extremely close to where the earlier remains were found... Not miles apart as the articles claim...

I was wondering why there were no victims in 2008 too.

 

[BelieveinUFO]

Lets sort that our a little:

- Manorville has some sadistic aspects, LISK doesn't has.

Sadistic in the sense that the victims were decapitated when dumped. BUT the investigators haven't released any information on how the Gilgo bodies were there. We also don't know whether the victims were tortured before they were killed (except when he called one of his victim's sister and said about the look on her sister's eyes)

What's interesting is if the latest case is related (if not for either domestic dispute or another killer or gang), then the killer has changed his method of dumping from too close to the road to little further off (300 feet) from the road, so that the bodies would not be Quickly found by passer-bys. Hopefully this is an isolated incident with another killer or the police would really need to comb a very large section of Manorville.

Being covered in bedsheet is a real clue that he had time to dump the victim. If that bedsheet is from a hotel, I think investigators would have a chance to map it to some hotel or can even verify missing bedsheets from any hotels if the hotel keeps a record of all that.

 

[txsvicki]

Maybe he removed the feet and hands of manorville victims because they were in his home and might have left prints or somehow been traced to him if their bodies and identity should be found quicker. If both locations are the same killer he could have changed due to aging, health problems, not having as long to dismember or feel the need now, etc. DNA testing is more advanced now and maybe he knows there's no need to try and hide identities. Finding body parts near where the 4 women were on the beach and the rest of the body in Manorville is too coincidental IMO. Even cutting off the feet could be somehow related to the AC murders with no shoes or socks.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I was speaking specifically of the body that was just found on Friday -if it's determined that the body recently found was murdered by the current LI perp.

I don't possess enough knowledge of the Manorville murders (the ones previous to the body found on Friday) to have an opinion of who might of murdered them.

I am still of the opinion (Non-Expert) that the LI perp is most likely in his mid-late 30s, Maybe up to mid 40s, due to the possibility of the perp having knowledge of IT/Computer/Communications Tech (although that is not the only reason for my opinion). I am not certain of the level of knowledge and expertise yet. I do accept that it's possible that the perp could be younger or older than the age range I have given and that I could be completely wrong about my opinion.

You noticed, that we are, when it comes to LISK's age are only about 5 years differ? The old one, late 40s/early 50s in Manorville, not LISK

And when it comes to that dead male from Friday, I would assume, he is meaningless to both of them. If he is connected at all, it's just one male more getting in the way.

 

[scandi]

You noticed, that we are, when it comes to LISK's age are only about 5 years differ? The old one, late 40s/early 50s in Manorville, not LISK

And when it comes to that dead male from Friday, I would assume, he is meaningless to both of them. If he is connected at all, it's just one male more getting in the way.

So the body found last Friday is male?



ETA: Would that mean 'one male more getting in the way because he was a transvestite in women's clothing?

 

[dc20015]

Lets sort that our a little:

- Manorville has some sadistic aspects, LISK doesn't has.

- true, SKs have changed MO in the past, it is not uncommon. But in all cases I know, it was escalation and honing. Never de-escalating. The only situation, I know, when the kill number goes up and the work becomes sloppier, less elaborate is, when psychopaths enter the spiraling phase. So, if anyone of the many arguing, SKs changed MOs like in this case, would prvide at least one example of an SK who went down in violence, instead of up, it would may help to make this a bit clearer. I know not one, but then, I haven't met all of them.

- Manoville is around for many years. The first body, or rather parts of it, appeared in 2000 with an already fully developed signature. Since other body parts of the same victim popped up in 2011 in LI, we know, he has kept them (because I doubt, those parts were there all the time, they would have been decomposed beyond recognition). So well, we know, he had already in 2000 means of conservation, which makes him highly organized and driven only by his own urges.

- LISK on the other hand has no really clear signature. Basically, he is just Strangler 101 and the only noticeable thing is, no evidence for blunt force trauma, no other torture marks as far as we know and the burlap wrap. All together, in my opinion, that puts him in the medium degree of organization.

- Both nevertheless have some things in common:

- Their significant victims are the females. With them, they put some effort in the killing and disposal.

- Male victims appear to be just discarded. In the years Manorville was active there, also two males popped up, both not dismembered. And we have still the unidentified Asian in a dress, who died from blunt force trauma. Since Manorville hunted for street corner prostitutes, he was the one, who had to pick in not to well lit areas. Which makes the mistake to pick up a crossdressing male prostitute understandable. LISK wouldn't come into that trouble, because his victims were Craigslist escorts. Ads with pictures, well lit, it would take some extremely good work for a transvestite to look there really entirely female. And since LISK in my opinion showed some hints on being a stalker type, he would have had more time to observe. So my guess is, the Asian goes on Manorville's account and that guy was really angry when he found out.

So bottom line: We look at two

- Manorville, probably now in his early fifties rather than in his late forties. Still somewhat fit, but way too intelligent to carry a body around for 300 ft into the brushes if he can avoid it or use technical help.

- LISK, who is really fit, I said so early last year already. He is in the end 20s, early 30s now (the 25-35 bracket)

And there is some dynamic between those two going on, but I doubt, it's cooperation or friendship in any form. When LISK got all the media attention, the parts, Manorville spread over LI suddenly popped up. They haven't been there all the time. If a part of Jane dow would have been out there on the beach for 11 years, there would have been not much that could have been found. In fact, I heard too many details, from remaining intact DNA to color of the toenails and scars, to believe for a moment, decomposition of those body parts was too advanced at all.
So, what happened? Did Manorville spread some parts of his private collection at the beach to get his share of the fame? In fact, that wouldn't be the first time, such a behavior happens. With unsubs, that are somewhat compatible, it can take the form of some friendly communication (see Alcala and the Hillside Stranglers), but most likely and especially, if the extreme form of a staging dismemberer is involved, such competitions end usually with the abrupt end of the "career" of the competitor (See London Torso II and Jack the Ripper for an example).
So one more bottom line: There were two of them, at least till early 2011 ...
The question is, are there still two? This would mean, Manorville is back from hibernation and LISK has found another place for the bodies. Or is there now only one left? Then my bet would be, the old guy made the race because he is cleverer and a thousand times more brutal and savage than this newbie could even imagine. We will see when the next female bodies pop up.

Since I really don't consider Bundy as having spiralled until Florida, I would use him as a prime example. Some very early victims were decapitated, taken home, remains scattered. In Utah and Colorado, when I think he was still pretty much *together* mentally, he was not doing this to victims.

Again, I am not sold on the idea of this being 1 killer, but I think its possible that you can have a killer who changes whether they want to dismember a victim or not and what type of prostitutes they use. Also remember that alot of those dismembered street victims were early victims when the killer would've used streetwalkers because prostituting online wasn't as common.

Finally, I would caution that while I do believe SKs will probably always have some features in common and it is important to look to past cases, IMHO one cannot study individual people in the same way as other things. Each killer is a little different, as each person on this Earth, is different and there is always room for a new type of killer never presented before or for rare cases.

JMO.

 

[dc20015]

So the body found last Friday is male?



ETA: Would that mean 'one male more getting in the way because he was a transvestite in women's clothing?

I have been looking and it appears that this has not yet been determined as of yesterday's articles.

 

[Theforeigner]

You noticed, that we are, when it comes to LISK's age are only about 5 years differ? The old one, late 40s/early 50s in Manorville, not LISK

And when it comes to that dead male from Friday, I would assume, he is meaningless to both of them. If he is connected at all, it's just one male more getting in the way.

Could you please post a link that confirm your claim that the Friday Manorville remains are male?

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

I find it interesting there are 13 people on this page currently & only 4 are members, the rest are guests....very interesting

@ en passant are guests allowed to post? or do they just read what we have all posted?

nice yin and yang cats. beautiful.
thank you

 

[ynotdivein]

Guests cannot post, only read. Actual members will also show up as guests if they are visiting WS and don't log in (as some people do from work, I have heard tell :innocent: ).

 

[Peter Brendt]

So the body found last Friday is male?



ETA: Would that mean 'one male more getting in the way because he was a transvestite in women's clothing?

For any women-killer, "male in the way" can mean a lot of things. A crossdresser accidentally picked, a curious pimp, an annoying neighbor who saw something, ... and so on. I think, especially Manorville would react on such disturbances pretty final. LISK, well, he seems to be more of a coward and would think twice before attacking someone actually able to fight back.

 

[dcgrumpy]

You noticed, that we are, when it comes to LISK's age are only about 5 years differ? The old one, late 40s/early 50s in Manorville, not LISK

And when it comes to that dead male from Friday, I would assume, he is meaningless to both of them. If he is connected at all, it's just one male more getting in the way.

Where did you hear that the body found was a male?

 

[dcgrumpy]

I find it interesting there are 13 people on this page currently & only 4 are members, the rest are guests....very interesting

I don't think that necessarily means anything. I've been reading Websleuths for at least 5 years. I only registered a year ago to post something in this forum because I'm local. I read a lot of other forums on here but never post. I also read here logged out a lot and only log in when I want to post something.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Where did you hear that the body found was a male?

Phone calls ... and no, I don't give you the numbers. But as of yet, it isn't officially confirmed. But then, obviously, the media also have a little more as they tell us yet. Did you notice the recurring connections made to the other two male victims in the articles posted by others above in this thread?