Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012

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http://news.yahoo.com/human-remains-long-island-continue-serial-killer-mystery-003900571.html

Human Remains on Long Island Continue Serial Killer Mystery
Feb 19, 2012

Quote:

Reuters reports the age and sex of the current skeletal remains have yet to be determined. There is no indication that this new discovery has anything to do with previous murders in the area. The body was found wrapped in a worn bedsheet and without shoes. Samuel found what appeared to be the top of a human skull at around 6:30 p.m. ET. He went back to get his older brother, cousin and a friend. When they returned with flashlights, they discovered the body had been partially buried. The bed sheet was wrapped in a plastic bag and duct tape.
Police believe the body had been there for "several years," according to ABC News. A forensic anthropologist has been called in to help with the case.

OMG, I almost chocked for sucking in too much air reading that without shoes. Thanks for the link.

It make me wonder how common it is for killers to remove shoes? It couldn't be that common of a fetish, right? Here it is shades of AC encroaching on the LI/Manorville murders. :seeya:
 
Isen't it very rare for a male to strangle another male?
My impression is that a male killer, killing another male, would, choose an MO like; shoot to death or beat to death or some other violent blunt force trauma.

Anyone know?

It happens in homosexual situations, sometimes accidentally.
 
OMG, I almost chocked for sucking in too much air reading that without shoes. Thanks for the link.

It make me wonder how common it is for killers to remove shoes? It couldn't be that common of a fetish, right? Here it is shades of AC encroaching on the LI/Manorville murders. :seeya:

It is not surprising that the victims of sex crimes are found shoeless. Most people remove their shoes before having sex. It is not necessarily the killer who removes the shoes.
 
Hopefully they will release more information on the recent remains found in Manorville.

This article has some interesting details I hadn't heard:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/nyregion/more-human-remains-are-found-on-long-island.html?_r=1

The body was wrapped in bed sheets and a plastic bag secured with duct tape. A one-foot blueberry bush had grown up through the remains.

From the article:

He was cutting through the woods after he had been out with his German short-haired pointer, Molly, searching for the shed antlers of deer, when he noticed “the top, cranial portion of the skull,” bleached white from exposure. “I leaned in and looked a little closer and saw it was a skull from the seam in the back,” said Mr. Samuel, a welder, who is studying education. “And then I looked closer and it was human remains.”
He went home, called his older brother and a cousin and a friend. The four of them returned to the site with a flashlight. They saw the outline of a body seemingly face up, with a foot-high blueberry bush growing through it.
“We saw the pelvis bones sticking out,” said Mr. Samuel.
The body, partly buried, was wrapped in a worn bedsheet. The sheet appeared to be covered in a black plastic garbage bag and wrapped with duct tape. Mr. Samuel did not see shoes. “I think it was barefoot,” he said.
 
Here we go again with the sloppy reporting.

One or two reporters actually speak with a witness and two hundred others copy their story. Each time the story is written over again in a new journalist's words, the story loses integrity (and crucial facts are altered). I feel the need to write to almost every writer to question their sources and te accuracy of their reporting.

So which is it?

Were the shoes missing or did the witness simply say that he did not notice shoes?

These details make a world of difference.

We put up with the sloppy reporting for over a year and as a result we have rumors that won't die and false reports that are being accepted as fact.
 
So which is it?

Were the shoes missing or did the witness simply say that he did not notice shoes?

As far as the report and other reports published about this news:

Only the person (witness) who found the skeletal remains said he did not notice any shoes. ("I think it was barefoot") <- not yet confirmed by police

So whether the police found the shoes along with the skeletal remains or Not is not reported by police YET.

If anyone finds a links about police statement confirming shoes present or not, please provide a source. Thank you.
 
Here we go again with the sloppy reporting.

One or two reporters actually speak with a witness and two hundred others copy their story. Each time the story is written over again in a new journalist's words, the story loses integrity (and crucial facts are altered). I feel the need to write to almost every writer to question their sources and te accuracy of their reporting.

So which is it?

Were the shoes missing or did the witness simply say that he did not notice shoes?

These details make a world of difference.

We put up with the sloppy reporting for over a year and as a result we have rumors that won't die and false reports that are being accepted as fact.

Agreed, you're so right about sloppy reporting mucking everything up. It's amazing how these rumors just continue on and become "fact"--quite annoying. I loved how Shannon's 911 call was reported as 20 min, 22 min, and 23 min--these journalists out to be ashamed with their inaccurate stories!

MOO
 
I think that this guy is smart enough so that he wouldn't deal with any pimps in the first place. Pimps are witnesses. While I'm not too confident a pimp would go to the police, they would be a major hassle.

Secondly, this guy is essentially a coward. He preys on victims of opportunity who are in a very vulnerable position. I think this guy would be afraid to be confronted by a man.

My feelings exactly. I'd even go so far as to bet my farm that he bends like a willow under a domineering wife or mother.
 
I wondered if he might have used mile markers or some kind of landmarks.

There is a really simple way to keep track of distance while traveling short lengths along Ocean Parkway: count the bumps as your vehicle crosses from one concrete slab to the next.

Anyone that has driven ocean parkway can tell you that the roadway is constructed of adjoining concrete slabs. Probably due to the age of the roadway, and because it rests upon shifting sand, the slabs don't form a smooth straight line. As you drive there is a consistent, bah-dunk, bah-dunk, bah-dunk, the bumps are exactly x feet apart. I don't know if x is 20 or 50, but it would be easy enough to count 10 bah-dunks then stop, especially for a person who suffers from hypervigilance.

My guess is the killer knows Ocean Parkway like the back of his hand because he lives there. Who is fidgeting with a GPS device when you have corpses in the vehicle? I would think he has his eyes on the road looking out for witnesses, but his mind is stuck on those **** dammed bumps he hates so much.
 
or just look at your odometer?
but that would also take slow driving and your mind on things besides being seen... hmmm
The bumps sounds plausible.
 
According to this article, this is the fourth set of remains in the Upton Ecological Research Reserve....hmmmm. Is this a 500 acre tract of land? I think 640 acres is one square mile. So that would mean four sets of remains in less than one square mile? http://fios1news.com/longisland/node/11129
 
According to this article, this is the fourth set of remains in the Upton Ecological Research Reserve....hmmmm. Is this a 500 acre tract of land? I think 640 acres is one square mile. So that would mean four sets of remains in less than one square mile? http://fios1news.com/longisland/node/11129

hi snowstar --
to quote - someone named Josh - on a thread on a facebook page about this....
"it's actually more like four miles, and this was an intact body - as opposed to the other two discoveries in Manorville (Jessica Taylor and Jane Doe #6). And they really don't know if they're connected. The fact is that there are other murderers out there (more than 3 million people on LI) and so far police don't know this newest case isn't completely unrelated."
 
There is a really simple way to keep track of distance while traveling short lengths along Ocean Parkway: count the bumps as your vehicle crosses from one concrete slab to the next.

Anyone that has driven ocean parkway can tell you that the roadway is constructed of adjoining concrete slabs. Probably due to the age of the roadway, and because it rests upon shifting sand, the slabs don't form a smooth straight line. As you drive there is a consistent, bah-dunk, bah-dunk, bah-dunk, the bumps are exactly x feet apart. I don't know if x is 20 or 50, but it would be easy enough to count 10 bah-dunks then stop, especially for a person who suffers from hypervigilance.

My guess is the killer knows Ocean Parkway like the back of his hand because he lives there. Who is fidgeting with a GPS device when you have corpses in the vehicle? I would think he has his eyes on the road looking out for witnesses, but his mind is stuck on those **** dammed bumps he hates so much.

It looks to me like he got better over time at finding the right location.

Assume for a minute that there's only one killer.

The first victim was Jane Doe 2000. She was left "outside" of the dump site, if you want to define the dump site as between Cedar Beach and Gilgo Beach marinas.

Take a look:
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/bodies-found-at-li-beaches-1.2541830?qr=1

Travelling west, the most obvious markers are going to be huge green parkway signs that say "Cedar Beach". You'd pass the marina entrance road, clear as day. Next up would be another huge green sign that says "Gilgo Beach". I haven't bothered to look at satellite images to see exactly where they are, but at night I can assure you that these signs would be the best indicator.

My guess...

The first body dump, Jane Doe 2000, was done hastily with little regard for exactly where he was depositing the remains. He knew exactly where Cedar Beach was, but was in the early stages of establishing his "graveyard".

On the second dump, Jessica Taylor in 2003, he passes the entrance to the Cedar Beach marina, but probably drops her off BEFORE the Gilgo Beach sign that I'm guessing he eventually comes to use as a marker.

He's getting more sophisticated.

Next up...

Asian crossdresser. The media said 5-10 years decomp, so I assume this murder occurred in 2004-2005.

At this point, he's getting more comfortable with the dump site. Noone has discovered the 2 sets of remains like they did in Manorville. He's getting to know the area better, since he's returned several times to try and "relive" the event, check the scene, etc. At this point, he becomes unconcerned with dismemberment. After all, "No body, no case".

With the crossdresser, he probably uses the Gilgo Beach sign as a reference point for the first time.

At this point, he's evolved. He has enough of an intimate knowledge of this particular 2-mile stretch of road to be able to pinpoint his dump site exactly using TruthSpider's "bumps" (which I agree would be an excellent way to pinpoint, but only in small numbers - he's not going to count >20 bumps is my guess), odometer, # of seconds past the Gilgo sign, whatever. But his method is REALLY precise. And thanks to TruthSpider for mentioning the bumps. I've driven that road a hundred times and those bumps are definitely like clockwork.

As for the other victims (the baby, Jane Doe 1996, the human bones found at Tobay), my belief is that that killer came from the east, and lives in Nassau County. If I'm wrong, then my assumption is that traffic may have caused him to go to Plan B - random dump.

Because of the evolution I described, my sense is that the serial killer knew how to get to Cedar Beach and knew it was a great dump site.... BUT, he wasn't a year-round Oak Beach resident, otherwise he could have pinpointed the final "graveyard" from the beginning.

I also sense that over time, he began trying to move the graveyard further from Cedar, closer to Gilgo in order to draw attention away from Cedar Beach, which he had a connection to. Nevertheless, he likely thought that noone would ever find the bodies, or if they did it would be 50 years from now. The burlap was just an added countermeasure. It would camouflage the body and prevent aerial scavengers like crows from creating a scene. As a deer hunter, I've seen crows converge in droves on a fresh gut pile in less than 30 minutes.
 
Just an FYI...

Upton is all Federal Land. It is part of the Brookhaven National Lab property.

Doesn't this open the door for the FBI to step in and take over?
 
Just an FYI...

Upton is all Federal Land. It is part of the Brookhaven National Lab property.

Doesn't this open the door for the FBI to step in and take over?

we all know they are already involved. what do you want from the fbi a presser where they introduce themselves?

Better yet, maybe some of the BNL nerdbots will join us websleuths and drop some real science on us, please come lend your brains to this armchair investigation.

random question about Sir Vailence, does anybody know how long the porta-potty has been in the oak beach parking lot? Is it the same one or has it changed in the last 2 years?
 
we all know they are already involved. what do you want from the fbi a presser where they introduce themselves?

Better yet, maybe some of the BNL nerdbots will join us websleuths and drop some real science on us, please come lend your brains to this armchair investigation.

random question about Sir Vailence, does anybody know how long the porta-potty has been in the oak beach parking lot? Is it the same one or has it changed in the last 2 years?

Now I so hope, the potty has been changed over those tow years, really
 
Just an FYI...

Upton is all Federal Land. It is part of the Brookhaven National Lab property.

Doesn't this open the door for the FBI to step in and take over?

yes this totally opens the door for the FBI to blow the doors off the SCPD!!!!!
 
we all know they are already involved. what do you want from the fbi a presser where they introduce themselves?

Better yet, maybe some of the BNL nerdbots will join us websleuths and drop some real science on us, please come lend your brains to this armchair investigation.

random question about Sir Vailence, does anybody know how long the porta-potty has been in the oak beach parking lot? Is it the same one or has it changed in the last 2 years?

I don't think that is unreasonable at all Truth. In Lindsey Baum's case the man chosen to be the lead FBI man on the case spoke at a presser. He was magnificent. :blushing: lol
 
we all know they are already involved. what do you want from the fbi a presser where they introduce themselves?

Better yet, maybe some of the BNL nerdbots will join us websleuths and drop some real science on us, please come lend your brains to this armchair investigation.

random question about Sir Vailence, does anybody know how long the porta-potty has been in the oak beach parking lot? Is it the same one or has it changed in the last 2 years?

hello TS - the only thing i am aware of - is that they flew a black hawk helicopter over the land and marsh looking for bodies and then as quickly LEFT the case.

the fbi is not on this case --- have not heard a word about it if they are - please let us know how exactly they ARE on this case?

and what is a BNL nerdbot?

who cares about a porto-potty in the parking lot? why should anyone care? and why is a porto-potty there to begin with?
 

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