Max's Death - Dina's Independent Experts Summary Reports

[MyBelle]

Melinek asked Bove to prove an Assault Scenario (and/or homicide) not just analyze LE's scenario. There is no physical evidence to support a claim of assault. Melinek wanted Bove to prove her theory, he couldn't. Neither Melinek nor Bove set out to look at possible accident scenarios that were possible.

I don't understand your point because Dr. Bove did agree the evidence supported an assault scenario. My comment was about intent. Dr. Bove isn't a forensic pathologist, he doesn't have the expertise to conclude whether it was an intentional assault or not. Melinek could analyze the boy's physical injuries but Bove does not have the expertise to do so.

JMO

 

[time]

I don't understand your point because Dr. Bove did agree the evidence supported an assault scenario. My comment was about intent. Dr. Bove isn't a forensic pathologist, he doesn't have the expertise to conclude whether it was an intentional assault or not. Melinek could analyze the boy's physical injuries but Bove does not have the expertise to do so.

JMO

Bove's analysis did not prove any assault theory.

Max's injuries could have been caused by any number of objects or events.

There's a reason they didn't consider other accident scenarios that could have been more adequate than Gomez's - they were not concerned with finding the truth, but proving a theory.

Why didn't Dina pay Bove to do a computer simulation instead of just knock down Gomez's? Why was Dr. Melinek backtracking on Dr. Phil - oh, that's right, you don't watch daytime TV. Why do you think Wecht was so honestly upset with Melinek's behavior? No matter what you think of him, his reaction was genuine and he thought she was unethical... oh, I see, you didn't watch it.

 

[MyBelle]

Bove's analysis did not prove any assault theory.Max's injuries could have been caused by any number of objects or events.

There's a reason they didn't consider other accident scenarios that could have been more adequate than Gomez's - they were not concerned with finding the truth, but proving a theory.

Why didn't Dina pay Bove to do a computer simulation instead of just knock down Gomez's? Why was Dr. Melinek backtracking on Dr. Phil - oh, that's right, you don't watch daytime TV. Why do you think Wecht was so honestly upset with Melinek's behavior? No matter what you think of him, his reaction was genuine and he thought she was unethical... oh, I see, you didn't watch it.

BBM. Dr. Bove provided a professional opinion of assault as did Dr. Melinek and Rady's called for a CPS investigation. That's a whopping three experts who don't believe it was an accident scenario.

Perhaps Dr. Wecht became upset because he didn't realize there was evidence Max was assaulted. Dr. Wecht wasn't in a position to judge Dr. Melinek's ethics because he was a consultant about RZ's death not Max's. Let's discuss the real facts, please. I think the media is more interested in truth rather than what Dr. Wecht might think.



JMO

Following a nine-month investigation, Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist, and Dr. Robert Bove, an injury biomechanics, concluded that Max Shacknai's death was no accident, KPHO reports. They say that the fall could not explain several injuries found on Max's face, shoulder, and neck, according to Fox News.

The two doctors believe that Max was beaten before either being forced over the balcony railing, or jumping over the railing in an effort to escape.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/max-shacknai-murdered-jonah-shacknai-report_n_1757919.html

 

[time]

BBM.


JMO

Following a nine-month investigation, Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist, and Dr. Robert Bove, an injury biomechanics, concluded that Max Shacknai's death was no accident, KPHO reports. They say that the fall could not explain several injuries found on Max's face, shoulder, and neck, according to Fox News.

The two doctors believe that Max was beaten before either being forced over the balcony railing, or jumping over the railing in an effort to escape.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/max-shacknai-murdered-jonah-shacknai-report_n_1757919.html

Show us where Dr. Bove concludes that. You are quoting an article that appears to have taken this from the Summary of Reports, from Hallier, or from Dina/Melinek.

That is exactly what I pointed out early on in this thread so thanks for bringing it up again. They are claiming Dr. Bove agrees when he didn't.

 

[MyBelle]

Show us where Dr. Bove concludes that. You are quoting an article that appears to have taken this from the Summary of Reports, from Hallier, or from Dina/Melinek.

That is exactly what I pointed out early on in this thread so thanks for bringing it up again. They are claiming Dr. Bove agrees when he didn't.

Yes, he agrees with Dr. Melinek. Here's Dr. Bove's own words:

The kinematics associated with the scenario put forth by Dr. Melinek, in which an assault
resulted in Maxfield Shacknai’s fall to the first floor, provide biomechanically accurate
mechanisms for all of Maxfield Shacknai’s injuries and are consistent with the physical
evidence and geometry of the incident scene.

http://www.maxshacknai.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dr.Bove-Report.pdf

 

[time]

BBM.


JMO

Following a nine-month investigation, Dr. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist, and Dr. Robert Bove, an injury biomechanics, concluded that Max Shacknai's death was no accident, KPHO reports. They say that the fall could not explain several injuries found on Max's face, shoulder, and neck, according to Fox News.

The two doctors believe that Max was beaten before either being forced over the balcony railing, or jumping over the railing in an effort to escape.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/max-shacknai-murdered-jonah-shacknai-report_n_1757919.html

Show us where Dr. Bove directly concludes that. You are quoting an article that appears to have taken this from the Summary of Reports, from Hallier, or from Dina/Melinek.

That is exactly what I pointed out early on in this thread so thanks for bringing it up again. They are claiming Dr. Bove agrees when he didn't.

AGAIN:

Aug. 6, 2012
"However, Bove said he had "not taken a position" as to whether the incident that resulted in Max's injuries was intentional."

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/aug/06/shacknais-mom-says-sons-death-possible-homicide/

It's a shame they had to misrepresent Dr. Bove''s conclusions.

 

[Carioca]

How ironic it is that the Melinek bases much of her theory that MS' fall was a homicide based on his center of gravity thus his inability to go over the railing unassisted, while the exact same can be said for RZ. The coincidences surrounding both "falls" are uncanny at best.

(MS) Summary of Reports:
B. In order for a person to fall over a railing, "the center of gravity of the person must therefore not only be above the height of the railing but must also move horizontally...over the thickness of the railing."
A. "Even with the additional height provided by the scooter, the center of gravity of a person of Max's... height while on the scooter would still be two inches below the railing."

Quoted from Valhall - The Hinky Meter: "A simple case of leverage and math"
First we have to establish where her [RZ] center of gravity (cg) is. [...] Her cg would have been below her belly button, closer to her pubic region and approximately 54% of her total height above her feet. She was 5 ft 3-1/2 inches tall. That means her cg would have been roughly 34-1/2 inches above her feet. A standard railing is around 37 to 38 inches tall. So, Rebecca had to get a point approximately 34-1/2 inches above her feet PAST (not at it, past it – in order to “go over” she had to get her cg to go PAST the lever point) the railing height. That means she had to bend at the waist (no assist from her hands or arms) which is at or slightly above the belly button and then slip her body past that bending point by somewhere between 3 to 5 inches.

**************************

In MS's case, the railing was 6 inches above his cg.

In RZ's case, the railing was between 3 to 5 inches above her cg (plus considering the right to left motion needed to get from the tip of her left foot toe print to the disturbed dirt on the railing, which was 6 inches BACK from the railing and 8 inches to the right. Physically impossible without the use of her hands and her feet bound).

New investigation into both deaths. Both families deserve to know the truth.

 

[bourne]

How ironic it is that the Melinek bases much of her theory that MS' fall was a homicide based on his center of gravity thus his inability to go over the railing unassisted, while the exact same can be said for RZ. The coincidences surrounding both "falls" are uncanny at best.




**************************

In MS's case, the railing was 6 inches above his cg.

In RZ's case, the railing was between 3 to 5 inches above her cg (plus considering the right to left motion needed to get from the tip of her left foot toe print to the disturbed dirt on the railing, which was 6 inches BACK from the railing and 8 inches to the right. Physically impossible without the use of her hands and her feet bound).

New investigation into both deaths. Both families deserve to know the truth.

I think the similarities between the two "balcony" and "suffocation" deaths are not coincidences. The murderers wanted Rebecca's lynching to simulate Max's fall.

 

[Carioca]

I think the similarities between the two "balcony" and "suffocation" deaths are not coincidences. The murderers wanted Rebecca's lynching to simulate Max's fall.

Couldn't agree with you more, bourne.
In the words of my mentor and avatar:
”One coincidence is just a coincidence. Two coincidences are a clue. Three coincidences are a proof” - Agatha Christie

I wonder what she would said about four and more coincidences! Perhaps a slam dunk and throw away the key...:what:

 

[Inparadise]

Couldn't agree with you more, bourne.
In the words of my mentor and avatar:
”One coincidence is just a coincidence. Two coincidences are a clue. Three coincidences are a proof” - Agatha Christie

I wonder what she would said about four and more coincidences! Perhaps a slam dunk and throw away the key...:what:

And the marks on her back...........

 

[Carioca]

And the marks on her back...........

AND subgaleal contusion(s)……………
AND "perhaps" merely a coincidink that the balcony from which RZ was hanged is clearly visible bee-line from the second floor railing from which MS fell....

 

[K_Z]

Show us where Dr. Bove directly concludes that. You are quoting an article that appears to have taken this from the Summary of Reports, from Hallier, or from Dina/Melinek.

That is exactly what I pointed out early on in this thread so thanks for bringing it up again. They are claiming Dr. Bove agrees when he didn't.

AGAIN:

Aug. 6, 2012
"However, Bove said he had "not taken a position" as to whether the incident that resulted in Max's injuries was intentional."

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/aug/06/shacknais-mom-says-sons-death-possible-homicide/

It's a shame they had to misrepresent Dr. Bove''s conclusions.

I agree that Bove's conclusions, as well as the inspiration behind his conclusions, has been misrepresented. Dina and her supporters have attempted to mislead the public to believe that Bove, on his own, looked at the evidence and concluded assault. That is clearly not what happened, by his own words.

Important to remember that Bove didn't "come up with" the assault idea on his own. He clearly states that he was directed to investigate Melinek's scenario, as well as reinvestigate the Gomez diagram (to debunk it). He was hired to do these 2 things only-- not to investigate multiple possibilities that could explain what happened. They needed him to run the numbers to "prove" assault "could have" happened, and then gave themselves whiplash spinning "could have" into "yes, it did". Bove acted ethically, IMO. What Dina and Melinek did with his work, by misrepresenting it, was not at all ethical, IMO.

And Melinek didn't come up with it on her own either, IMO. Dina hired her to investigate her "ideas" about RZ assaulting Max.

IMO, in this instance, Dr. Melinek was an opinion for hire. IMO, that is unethical, but unfortunately, common.

 

[Inparadise]

I agree that Bove's conclusions, as well as the inspiration behind his conclusions, has been misrepresented. Dina and her supporters have attempted to mislead the public to believe that Bove, on his own, looked at the evidence and concluded assault. That is clearly not what happened, by his own words.

Important to remember that Bove didn't "come up with" the assault idea on his own. He clearly states that he was directed to investigate Melinek's scenario, as well as reinvestigate the Gomez diagram (to debunk it). He was hired to do these 2 things only-- not to investigate multiple possibilities that could explain what happened. They needed him to run the numbers to "prove" assault "could have" happened, and then gave themselves whiplash spinning "could have" into "yes, it did". Bove acted ethically, IMO. What Dina and Melinek did with his work, by misrepresenting it, was not at all ethical, IMO.

And Melinek didn't come up with it on her own either, IMO. Dina hired her to investigate her "ideas" about RZ assaulting Max.

IMO, in this instance, Dr. Melinek was an opinion for hire. IMO, that is unethical, but unfortunately, common.

It will be interesting to see how both Bove and Melinek "perform" on the witness stand, if and when this reaches a court room........Criminal or Civil.

 

[*Lash*]

Why is the Summary of Reports un-authored? How can you put any stock in such an important document that has no author?

 

[K_Z]

It will be interesting to see how both Bove and Melinek "perform" on the witness stand, if and when this reaches a court room........Criminal or Civil.

I personally think Dina would be foolish to use them, particularly if she files a civil suit against Jonah. But I think she will use them, nonetheless. She paid a lot of money for those reports.

But they will not go unchallenged, if litigation gets to that point. I don't think the assault scenario will be viewed as credible, even floated by expensive experts.

 

[Inparadise]

I personally think Dina would be foolish to use them, particularly if she files a civil suit against Jonah. But I think she will use them, nonetheless. She paid a lot of money for those reports.

But they will not go unchallenged, if litigation gets to that point. I don't think the assault scenario will be viewed as credible, even floated by expensive experts.

IMO, Dina should learn to "cut her losses"........

 

[MyBelle]

I personally think Dina would be foolish to use them, particularly if she files a civil suit against Jonah. But I think she will use them, nonetheless. She paid a lot of money for those reports.

But they will not go unchallenged, if litigation gets to that point. I don't think the assault scenario will be viewed as credible, even floated by expensive experts.

The assault scenario won't be viewed as credible by whom? Max's body, the scene, the conflicting statements that triggered the doctors to request a CPS investigation are all compelling evidence the child did not die in an accidental fall. I think the only thing that will be challenged is why the Coronado PD failed to initiate a homicide investigation.

The expert reports have yet to be challenged and I doubt any expert would be willing to risk their reputation to do so.

JMO

 

[Quester]

JMO but I think the clan knows full well, and are banking on the fact, that MS’ case will not be re-opened . . . ever.

I think all of this malarkey is another giant, smoky, expensive, convoluted screen to get the focus off of RZ and the crafty “suicide”. JMHO!

 

[time]

JMO but I think the clan knows full well, and are banking on the fact, that MS’ case will not be re-opened . . . ever.

I think all of this malarkey is another giant, smoky, expensive, convoluted screen to get the focus off of RZ and the crafty “suicide”. JMHO!

The wise finally speak! I agree (depending on who is in the 'clan').

 

[Quester]

The wise finally speak! I agree (depending on who is in the 'clan').

Ah ... let's just lump 'em all in!