Max's Death - Dina's Independent Experts Summary Reports

[freespeech]

I see that the summary (first post of this thread) was written by other doctors; however, reading a few certain sentences on page three of the first attachment jumped out at me.

Just above and below the picture of the electrical plug these two sentences caught my attention:

"Why couldn't the specialized doctors in the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit save him?"

Then next paragraph:

"No one could save Max, once he fell."

A bit odd...are those Dina's words?
May be am reading too much into it.:blushing:

Her words seem odd to me as well.

 

[K_Z]

Just to dispel any further speculation, the words arielilane quoted above are mine (not Dina's) from the article I wrote reviewing and interpreting for a lay audience the findings and terminology in Max's autopsy report. This article was originally posted in Sept 2011 on The Hinky Meter, and has been posted and quoted elsewhere as well.

The article is linked on page 1. I will also offer that back in 2011, Valhall had it previewred by several physician experts (one of them a prominent neurologist) before it was originally posted to ensure my interpretation was accurate.

 

[freespeech]

Regarding the alleged Ocean utterance:

Could Max have uttered Ocean before/if Rebecca turned him over? Because if she did turn him over she may have further damaged the spinal cord, that damage then causing the cardio pulmonary cessation.

Also, could she have been so hysterical that she thought "Ocean" but in her altered stated of consciousness thought she heard it instead of just thinking it? That could happen to anyone in a highly charged situation and especially if she was overtaken by hysteria. I think hearing the 911 call would shed light on Rebecca's state of mind during the incident.

 

[time]

Regarding the alleged Ocean utterance:

Could Max have uttered Ocean before/if Rebecca turned him over? Because if she did turn him over she may have further damaged the spinal cord, that damage then causing the cardio pulmonary cessation.

Also, could she have been so hysterical that she thought "Ocean" but in her altered stated of consciousness thought she heard it instead of just thinking it? That could happen to anyone in a highly charged situation and especially if she was overtaken by hysteria. I think hearing the 911 call would shed light on Rebecca's state of mind during the incident.

You bring up some good possibilities.

I also wondered if Max possibly just made a noise (like a woosh or shannn sound), but she thought it sounded like 'Ocean'... is it possible he could have made a noise even if he could not say a word? I'm not convinced yet it's impossible he said it, we only have once opinion on that and I think she said it was unlikely.

 

[freespeech]

Regarding the alleged Ocean utterance:

Could Max have uttered Ocean before/if Rebecca turned him over? Because if she did turn him over she may have further damaged the spinal cord, that damage then causing the cardio pulmonary cessation.

Also, could she have been so hysterical that she thought "Ocean" but in her altered stated of consciousness thought she heard it instead of just thinking it? That could happen to anyone in a highly charged situation and especially if she was overtaken by hysteria. I think hearing the 911 call would shed light on Rebecca's state of mind during the incident.

Also, if Rebecca was hysterical could it be due to the emotional bond that had developed between the two. She had stated that she saw Max as her own son. This would account for a hysterical reaction as opposed to a calm, cool collected reaction, no?

 

[*Lash*]

REPOSTED

QUESTOR: Did LE recover the chandelier and check it for human tissue/blood/DNA?

If so, was that tissue/blood/DNA found on the upper portion of the chandelier, as though MS fell on top of it, or on the lower portion, as though the chandelier fell on top of MS? TIA

The question about whether DNA was recovered from the chandelier was asked a few times on the August, 7th Dr. Drew show.

First Time -

KATHY, CALLER FROM OHIO: Yes. Dr. Drew, my question is this -- I was wondering if there was any DNA found possibly that would connect the lady who had also died, Rebecca, with the son`s death?

PINSKY: Well, as you know, the San Diego investigators did not feel there was any wrongdoing. I know there was all kinds of consternation over the DNA on the rope that they found Rebecca tied to, but, Angela, maybe you can sort of clear that up real quick.

HALLIER: Yes. It`s our understanding from the records we have been given access to that DNA was taken from underneath Max`s fingernails but we have no indication that it was ever tested.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/07/ddhln.01.html

Second Time -

CINDY: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. For both Max and Rebecca, I wanted to say with Max, the diagram of that child trying to get over a wall and grab a chandelier and fall like that just seems like an impossibility. And I did want to ask was the chandelier fingerprinted or DNA taken off of it to prove the child had grabbed it?

PINSKY: I don`t know if -- Ann is shaking her head no and the -- Dina`s attorney said they had tested under the fingernails but did not test -- they did not have any DNA result. Thank you for that call. Cassidy in Alabama -- Cassidy.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/07/ddhln.01.html

 

[freespeech]

You bring up some good possibilities.

I also wondered if Max possibly just made a noise (like a woosh or shannn sound), but she thought it sounded like 'Ocean'... is it possible he could have made a noise even if he could not say a word? I'm not convinced yet it's impossible he said it, we only have once opinion on that and I think she said it was unlikely.

If Max's spinal cord were damaged to the extent that caused cardio pulmonary cessation then he probably would likewise not be able to voluntarily speak.

If he made and inadvertent "shoon" sound with a a final exhalation she could have interpreted that as sounding like Ocean while maybe also thinking and wondering if Ocean tripped him or knocked him over while he was playing.

Kids fall and have accidents all the time. Accidental death is the #1 cause of childhood fatality.

Her potential hysterical reaction when she found him could easily be the cause of her perplexing statement.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

I'm really disappointed in this and that's just a ridiculous reason. I've painted quit a bit in the past and I'm messy with it, mostly acrylics, or even the house and I've never gotten paint on my back
.

Furhman was saying that the paint transferred from the rope to her back when she put her hands behind her and slipped them in the top loops. That is was consistent with her tying her own self up.

 

[time]

Furhman was saying that the paint transferred from the rope to her back when she put her hands behind her and slipped them in the top loops. That is was consistent with her tying her own self up.

Thanks! But that doesn't sound like it excludes someone else getting paint on the rope and transferring it.

Anyway, maybe we should move this discussion in another to an exisitng thread that is relevant to investigating the evidence of Rebecca's death.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Some photos of Max's injuries are in this video. They are disturbing and may ruin your day. Poor little child had just turned six.

http://www.cbs8.com/category/155799/video-landing-page?clipId=7584855&autostart=true

 

[time]

Can you please move discussion about Rebecca's death here that mods made yesterday:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181377"]Rebecca's Death - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

THANK YOU

 

[time]

Damage to Upper Railing and Post Pic from Dr. Bove's report.

I just don't see how the damage on the railing post is related to Max going over the railing in any of the scenarios.

What this pic made me wonder - what is directly behind that upper railing, is a door into a room and I don't know how wide that hallway ont he second floor is (probably can find out)? Is it possible Max came running out of one of them, if so, and went over the upper railing at more of a 45 - 90 degree angle with the skooter in hand? Maybe Ocean was running behind him and helped bump/flip him up and over? I may be wrong but the damage on the post appears to be going at some angle that is downward and not across the railing.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

The second shoe print belonged to a police officer, it was matched up and noted in the reports. There also are other things the Zahau lawyers, who in my opinion are not in the least bit credible... brought up which were investigated, explained and are not evidence of a homicide. That's why Gore said they had no new evidence.

I totally agree with your assessment of the Zahau lawyers and experts.

 

[time]

Here is the Second Story Floor Plan around the Hall and Stairway area.

 

[i.b.nora]

That doorway from the main staircase landing leads to the stairway that goes up to the room with the balcony. And, you can't see it in that section you posted, but the doorway also leads to a stairway that goes into the kitchen. Rebecca last saw Max in the kitchen, as I recall.

 

[Charterhouse]

If I recall correctly the initial reports stated that Max was eating breakfast while Rebecca and Z were in the bathrooms.

 

[jjenny]

Damage to Upper Railing and Post Pic from Dr. Bove's report.

I just don't see how the damage on the railing post is related to Max going over the railing in any of the scenarios.

What this pic made me wonder - what is directly behind that upper railing, is a door into a room and I don't know how wide that hallway ont he second floor is (probably can find out)? Is it possible Max came running out of one of them, if so, and went over the upper railing at more of a 45 - 90 degree angle with the skooter in hand? Maybe Ocean was running behind him and helped bump/flip him up and over? I may be wrong but the damage on the post appears to be going at some angle that is downward and not across the railing.

I can see the damage but I sincerely doubt that damage is going to be caused by pushing a child into the railing. I have no idea what made it otherwise. If there is paint on the scooter then scooter is a suspect in making the damage.

 

[Charterhouse]

Does anyone know where the door with the chain latch was leading? Is this the door that you were just talking about?

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I can see the damage but I sincerely doubt that damage is going to be caused by pushing a child into the railing. I have no idea what made it otherwise. If there is paint on the scooter then scooter is a suspect in making the damage.

I agree.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

There was lots of mixed DNA. No fingerprints... very odd... like the room had been wiped down.... and then someone turned out the lights.... I find that strange...

No, there was only Rebecca's and Max's DNA/fingerprints in the room. There was obviously older DNA that was too low to even be measured (? - not sure that's what they call it). So only Max and Rebecca had been in that room recently. The DNA and fingerprints tell the whole story. They were on the door frames, paint brushes, paint tubes, rope KNOTS, and the bed leg, as well as other placed. As one detective put it, "you'd have to be in a hovercraft to not leave anything". NO WAY anyone else was in the room. You really can't argue "what ifs" against DNA and fingerprints. Also, Rebecca could tie knots and she just tied until she got it done.