MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[bettybaby00]

Found it!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=sm_tw

Yes this is weird. Sloppy reporting or something else. Everything about the 2 possible men is completely different. Age, charge, one was still in jail and one wasn't.

I saw transcripts of the Don Lemon interview where he was questioning whether or not he was about to interview "the right guy"

 

[popsicle]

NBC Nightly News ‏@NBCNightlyNews 4m4 minutes ago
Exclusive: #FreddieGray's family hopes his name will 'live on forever.' More tonight. http://nbcnews.to/1bY4lhk

 

[CoolJ]

Hi CoolJ, appreciate your discussion and please know comments coming from me apply to all races. I can clearly tell the difference between good and bad people of all types of races including whites.

Bolded above, does this go two ways? Would it be discrimination to discriminate against the top 2% of income people simply because they are rich? Wouldn't they also be discriminated against regarding your statement?

Yes. That is what I said..... "or $$ in their bank accounts is discriminating"
Didnt say anything about what % of "income people" they are

 

[CoolJ]

OH OH ---BPD officer just shot a black man in Baltimore city at 3 pm in front of many witnesses---Do not know why yet

Thats not good. Not at all. oh boy

ETA - looks like nobody was shot afterall. Thats a good thing.

 

[Bravo]

^Are u speaking to the incident misreported? Man observed on the street with a hand gun. LE apprehended him. As he fell to the ground his gun discharged. Nobody was hit but LE sent him to Hospital anyway to cover themselves. IMO LE stopped what could have been a tragic incident.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-shooting-20150504-story.html

9 homicides-12 shootings since FG's funeral last week .... Imagine what the stats will be as LE inevitably become more risk-averse and unwilling to chase/arrest suspects without backup in place.

 

[MissSunshine]

When charges were announced Friday against Alicia White for the death ofFreddie Gray, her phone started buzzing from journalists and bail bondsmen.*

The problem was, they were calling the wrong Alicia White. The elementary school cafeteria manager from East Baltimore was not the Baltimore Police sergeant charged with manslaughter in the high-profile police custody death - even though court records listed her.

The middle initial was off. Her address, her height, her weight, her driver's license number - all of the information was my client's information," said Jeremy Eldridge, an attorney who says he has been hired by the resident.

"Her life has been a living hell the past four days," he said.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...drawn-up-for-wrong-people-20150504-story.html

That is a pretty big boo boo....

 

[Tawny]

When charges were announced Friday against Alicia White for the death ofFreddie Gray, her phone started buzzing from journalists and bail bondsmen.*

The problem was, they were calling the wrong Alicia White. The elementary school cafeteria manager from East Baltimore was not the Baltimore Police sergeant charged with manslaughter in the high-profile police custody death - even though court records listed her.

The middle initial was off. Her address, her height, her weight, her driver's license number - all of the information was my client's information," said Jeremy Eldridge, an attorney who says he has been hired by the resident.

"Her life has been a living hell the past four days," he said.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...drawn-up-for-wrong-people-20150504-story.html

That is a pretty big boo boo....

WTH is going on with the city of Baltimore's "officials"? Mass ineptitude?

 

[DebinGA]

WTH is going on with the city of Baltimore's "officials"? Mass ineptitude?

Strong union presence may make firing incompetents nearly impossible. Previous Baltimore Mayor was convicted of stealing gift cards donated for the city's poor, and she wasn't fired. Facing another trial for similar acts, she resigned with her pension intact.

 

[SStarr33]

Justin Fenton ‏@justin_fenton 3m3 minutes ago

High profile defense attorney Benjamin Brafman says on @AC360 that Mosby did "terrific disservice" by "catering to mob quest for justice"


Justin Fenton ‏@justin_fenton 2m2 minutes ago

Brafman: "When this case implodes, and it will in my judgment, the ppl of Baltimore will be more outraged than they are now"

 

[DebinGA]

Brafman: "When this case implodes, and it will in my judgment, the ppl of Baltimore will be more outraged than they are now"

Not at Mosby imo, but whoever stops the show trials they're eagerly awaiting.

 

[al66pine]

Revisiting a post upthread.

When you are speaking of burning a city down, yes, you separate the criminals from the law abiding citizens. Categorizing people by their ACTIONS makes sense. Categorizing people by the color of their skin or the $$ in their bank accounts is discriminating.

To some extent the $ ppl have in their bank a/c's is a result of their actions
(continuing training, education; working full time; not having children they cannot support;
not living or spending above their means; saving & investing for retirement, etc.).

So to some extent, imo, categorizing ppl by their financials - either income or net worth -
is not necessarily like categorizing ppl by skin color or a immutable genetic trait.

Some ppl waste opportunities; others waste $; some waste both. Some waste neither.
JMcts.

 

[ohreally]

I read that there has to be a preliminary hearing/ probable cause hearing within 30 days of charging under the area that the prosecutor used to bring charges herself , and that isn't likely to happen, so the "punt" is to send it to a grand jury within that 30 days-- which will take weeks to hand off, and months to hear the case and decide. Many analysts feel Mosby's decision to bring charges was politically motivated, and that even she knows that the charges are excessive and likely not provable-- and that she knew it would have to go to a GJ all along. She was sacrificing the officer's due process, IMO, and grandstanding with those charges-- appealing to the rioters. All about her career and image (and her spouse's), and not at all about the law, IMO-- and in the opinion of many legal analysts who are opining all over the web.

There was also an article I read discussing whether all 6 will be tried together, or if they can be severed into separate trials. IDK how that will shake out.

I am confused on this. I thought grand juries purpose is to see if there is probable cause to take a case to trial. Isn't that what the SA did the other day when she said there was probable cause for an arrest. I am pretty sure that in the Zimmerman, Arias, Brown were all done by a grand jury before any charges were ever filed or denied. Is it because it is a different state with different laws?

 

[K_Z]

I am confused on this. I thought grand juries purpose is to see if there is probable cause to take a case to trial. Isn't that what the SA did the other day when she said there was probable cause for an arrest. I am pretty sure that in the Zimmerman, Arias, Brown were all done by a grand jury before any charges were ever filed or denied. Is it because it is a different state with different laws?

IANAL. My understanding is that a prosecutor can sometimes choose to bring charges apart from a GJ. (I'm not at all certain about which can and can't be charged with only the prosecutor and not GJ, but I'm pretty sure first degree murder cases have to be brought to a GJ. Lower charges than that, I'm not sure about where the cutoff is.)

The GJ lends a layer of authenticity (some feel), but others are bothered by the "secret" proceedings. As I understand it, a probable cause hearing is public, and the state has to lay out its case. (Not sure if heard only by a judge, or if a jury is involved.) As another example, in California, Conrad Murray (the Michael Jackson doc) had a preliminary hearing (mini-trial) before a judge, nine months before his ACTUAL jury trial. Lots and lots of evidence came out at the prelim hearing mini-trial, ahead of the actual trial.

IIRC, in the Zimmerman case, Special Pros. Angela Corey brought charges in the state case without a GJ, but a GJ met for the federal civil rights charges. (Do I remember that right?? Maybe, maybe not!)

Maybe if boytwnmom comes by, this can be explained more clearly. I think I may have just made it more confusing and uncertain!

 

[K_Z]

My comments in blue.

When you are speaking of burning a city down, yes, you separate the criminals from the law abiding citizens. Categorizing people by their ACTIONS makes sense. Categorizing people by the color of their skin or the $$ in their bank accounts is discriminating.

BBM. I disagree. Categorizing is not discrimination in and of itself. What is the PURPOSE of the categorizing? The people who rioted and burned Baltimore last week are residents of that community. Because so few were arrested and charged, it's pretty hard to tell who are the "good" residents, and who are the "bad" residents.

But most everyone can agree that the neighborhood as a whole is dangerous, has extremely high rates of violent and non-violent crime, poverty, and is populated predominantly by minorities. That is descriptive, not discrimination. If an insurance company refuses to insure a business in that zip code because of the violence and crime, and damage to property, that is not discrimination; that is risk/ benefit balancing, based on objective criteria. The insurance company is not required to risk and/ or lose so much money they go out of business.

Revisiting a post upthread.


To some extent the $ ppl have in their bank a/c's is a result of their actions
(continuing training, education; working full time; not having children they cannot support;
not living or spending above their means; saving & investing for retirement, etc.).

So to some extent, imo, categorizing ppl by their financials - either income or net worth -
is not necessarily like categorizing ppl by skin color or a immutable genetic trait.

Some ppl waste opportunities; others waste $; some waste both. Some waste neither.
JMcts.

There are a lot of reasons to categorize things, that are not "discrimination". That's what scientific method, and statistics do. The tricky part is teasing out what is correlation, versus what is causation.

If I examine medical studies that show a certain group has has a high incidence of a certain health condition, the challenge becomes identifying what variables contribute substantially to that higher incidence. Is it genetics? Social environment? Water and environmental factors? Level of education? Personal habits? Diet? Over time and additional research, correlation can become established and regarded as causation. And that goes for qualitative and social research, as well as quantitative research. We know that inner city neighborhoods with incomes far below the poverty line have statistically much higher incidences of crime and violent crime. That is not discrimination to say that. It's well established with statistics.

Those who like to "massage" statistics do things like implement policies decriminalizing certain behaviors, to artificially lower the crime rates, as is being done in some areas with high school students and "alternative discipline" (not reporting crimes to the police). If you don't arrest someone for a crime, the crime rate is lower by one, but the crime still exists. KWIM?

Long winded response, sorry!

 

[EllieBee]

Until you have lived in the place of a group of targeted, discriminated-against people, all the analysis and stats in the world mean nothing.

<modsnip>

You can only experience life from your own, very narrow, view. None of us can. We may TRY to understsnd, but unless we live it, we don't KNOW it.

To tell others what their experience is or how "those people" should feel is disingeneous. And bigoted. We all need to acknowledge that we don't know what it is to be another person.

 

[DebinGA]

In Baltimore, governed for 50 yrs. by one party, with the entire leadership cadre (Mayor, Dep. Mayor, City Council, Dept. heads, etc) of one race, who's responsible for the "targeted discrimination" going on there? It's not Fox News, Ann Coulter, or Rupert Murdoch as someone here seems to believe... imo.

 

[MissSunshine]

The Freddie Gray case not only continued to fray nerves but also sparked a national dialogue on race and economic disparities as President*Barack Obama*invoked Baltimore in calling for more opportunities for young men and Gray's family said in a televised interview that perhaps the 25-year-old would "live forever" as a "martyr."

Meanwhile, a police investigation continues as Baltimore State's Attorney*Marilyn J. Mosby*builds her case. The separate investigations have some conflicting findings.

While Mosby said Friday that the officers had made an illegal arrest because a knife Gray was carrying was not a "switchblade," a violation of state law, the police task force studied the knife and determined it was "spring assisted," which does violate a Baltimore code.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ncident-penn-north-20150504-story.html#page=1

 

[Ausgirl]

My comments in blue.



BBM. I disagree. Categorizing is not discrimination in and of itself. What is the PURPOSE of the categorizing? The people who rioted and burned Baltimore last week are residents of that community.

While there's anecdotal evidence (as seen in reports from locals at the scene ) that *some* of the rioters were locals, there's no way of knowing how many actually were.

I've been following this all pretty closely from day 1.. and what I notice is, the media, the police and the public are hugely *and for the most part, wrongly* conflating the "protestors" with the "rioters".

Fact is, the protest and the riot and two separate, if in places overlapping events.

While a mostly peaceful protest lapsed into violence on the Saturday night (some of this provoked by criminal gangs who can be seen clearly on film attacking sports fans at a bar, and using the chaos to rob people - I'll put a link to this when I can find it, it's very revealing) things didn't go truly pear-shaped until Monday afternoon.

Monday afternoon being the time scheduled for a "purge event" that was advertised far and wide on social media, had a planned route for rioters to follow and encouraged people to attack police. It totally and very obviously hijacked the protest.

Clearly, this was a completely separate agenda to that of the protest. Organised by persons unknown.

This was NOT an organic development of the protest. It was planned, it was intrusive, and it had nothing to do with Freddy Gray, or justice for anyone. And the rioters could have come from anywhere, as the riot was advertised days before it happened.

 

[Ausgirl]

Until you have lived in the place of a group of targeted, discriminated-against people, all the analysis and stats in the world mean nothing.

<modsnip>

You can only experience life from your own, very narrow, view. None of us can. We may TRY to understsnd, but unless we live it, we don't KNOW it.

To tell others what their experience is or how "those people" should feel is disingeneous. And bigoted. We all need to acknowledge that we don't know what it is to be another person.

It's a really poor analogy to use here, in light of the sheer scale and profundity of what's happening in Baltimore, but back in the day as a white female youth 10,000 miles away, I used to get stopped and frisked and harassed illegally by police all the time, for just looking "different" (think, UK style punk).

It was assumed I was a criminal, assumed I was a drug user, assumed I was a shoplifter, assumed I was loitering for nefarious purposes (while waiting for trains..) - I was harassed two out of three Saturday nights, just trying to get where I was going, because of nothing except the way I looked. I was well behaved, drug-free punk!

This used to really get me down, and sometimes really angry and resentful. Occasionally the cops were so damn rude and vulgar (omg, cannot repeat what was said to me, it was really awful) at me, I couldn't help smarting off. I was never arrested for peacefully minding my own business, but damn I came close a few times.

I never had reason to avoid police before that, and had never done anything wrong, yet found myself actively avoiding police, even running a couple of times, just because I was sick of it all, and/or simply wanted to get to where I was going without being detained and humiliated.

So I (kind of..) get how people must feel after centuries of racism and ill treatment. I just experienced harassment for a few short years, and it changed my view of police for decades to come. Imagining a lifetime of it is painful.