MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[Curious Guy]

So do I. And so does the SA. And FG is the VICTIM here and the posts lauding the heroic police are frankly, inappropriate.

We get it. Some of you will always think the cops are right. But it doesn't belong in Freddy's thread.

Link to calling the officers in this situation heroic?

 

[branwynbreeze]

I think she knew about the Baltimore statutes. But she didn't care because she has the other ones to use to try and justify her position and deflect blame. And she has leverage against some of the officers to try and use to negotiate and flip them.

But does/did she really have leverage? Arresting cops is different then general population, they know the game. Speculating all asked for an attorney before any statements made.

 

[katydid23]

Someone who is under my complete control (think a child) dies in my care who with a crushed larynx, 3 broken cervical vertebrae and a severed spine I can guarantee no one here would defend me.

But we do not have that situation here. Lots of people 'in charge' coming and going, and not a child involved.

If you were running a home day care, for example, and someone in your care died of severe injuries, and OTHER ADULTS were in and out of your home, then I would defend you until we had all of the facts.

 

[katydid23]

But does/did she really have leverage? Arresting cops is different then general population, they know the game. Speculating all asked for an attorney before any statements made.

No, five of them cooperated fully and were interviewed.

 

[octobermoon]

But we do not have that situation here. Lots of people 'in charge' coming and going, and not a child involved.

If you were running a home day care, for example, and someone in your care died of severe injuries, and OTHER ADULTS were in and out of your home, then I would defend you until we had all of the facts.

Thanks, so you are admitting at least one of these officers should be found guilty?

 

[SugarQueen]

What you missed is that the Baltimore SA office started investigating this case long before the files were officially turned over to the office.

Not sure why you think I missed that?? Or what that has to do with the knife?

 

[KEVINinTO]

Baltimore Police Case Homes In on Knife Found in Arrest
Lawyer for one officer says weapon was illegal to possess under state law

http://www.wsj.com/articles/baltimore-police-case-homes-in-on-knife-found-in-arrest-1430857232

The lawyer for one of three officers accused of illegally arresting Mr. Gray filed court papers Monday seeking to inspect the knife. Marc Zayon, who represents Officer Edward Nero, wrote in a motion that he believes the weapon was illegal to possess under state law, meaning Mr. Gray’s arrest was lawful.

But police didn’t charge Mr. Gray with violating Maryland law. They charged him with breaking a more restrictive city ordinance that forbids possession of “any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switchblade knife.”

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I'm just glad that she is supporting the constitution. We need more politicians who are willing to tell cops to stop violating people's constitutional rights. If some cops want to quit because of that (I doubt they will), then good riddance. Cops are sworn to uphold the constitution. If they are not willing to do that, then they should not be cops.

Kaboom---there is a flip side to your philosophy above & it has to do with what rules citizens are supposed to abide by. You know, the laws of which we operate & go about our business on a daily basis. Us citizens have a fiduciary responsibility to uphold the laws of the land. It's my rights to expect some level of safety within our society & I will do my part also.
So by your framework, if citizens aren't willing to uphold their end of the agreement, then they shouldn't be citizens, right? Maybe after a citizens 15th arrest or so he loses the same rights & freedoms associated with the rest of society? Should there should be other options? I am sincerely asking.
We all have money in the pot here. We all have a vested interest. We all are accountable for our actions equally. We all are supposed to abide by the Constitution.

Just saying....

Moo

 

[katydid23]

Thanks, so you are admitting at least one of these officers should be found guilty?

Yes, probably. But maybe not. I want to know more about what happened exactly.

But I totally DISAGREE that the arrest was unjustified. And I do not believe he was injured before he went into the van.

It is entirely possible that he died due to 'involuntary manslaughter.' I think that many have been driven without being belt in and never died from it. So they probably had no idea he was going to die either. Should one or more be found guilty of negligence? Probably.

But MURDER? I am not sold on that charge at this point. JMO

 

[sorrell skye]

Someone who is under my complete control (think a child) dies in my care who with a crushed larynx, 3 broken cervical vertebrae and a severed spine I can guarantee no one here would defend me.

On top of that, would anyone blame the decedent (whether a child or an adult) for the crushed larynx, broken cervical vertebrae, and severed spinal cord? I seriously doubt it. In fact, I think a whole lotta folks would be justifiably suspicious of the events that led to the victim's injuries & death - especially if the person(s) charged with the care of the decedent failed to seek medical care for him when he was in need.

 

[octobermoon]

Yes, probably. But maybe not. I want to know more about what happened exactly.

But I totally DISAGREE that the arrest was unjustified. And I do not believe he was injured before he went into the van.

It is entirely possible that he died due to 'involuntary manslaughter.' I think that many have been driven without being belt in and never died from it. So they probably had no idea he was going to die either. Should one or more be found guilty of negligence? Probably.

But MURDER? I am not sold on that charge at this point. JMO

But Anderson 360 had a report about that last night. FG wasn't the first person who died from a rough ride. Not sure if that is on line but will look for a link if you need it. Had a young white couple on who was given that treatment and it sounds horrific.

I am not too worried about whether the arrest was justified or not. I will trust the judge to rule on the motion. Strange that the other officers didn't file too. But to be truthful I am almost always pro-prosecution in cases. I am for law and order. I don't care if you wear a badge or are wealthy, a doc or a priest. It is the crime I care about not the status or profession of the defendant.

 

[vanlutz]

Baltimore Police Case Homes In on Knife Found in Arrest
Lawyer for one officer says weapon was illegal to possess under state law

http://www.wsj.com/articles/baltimore-police-case-homes-in-on-knife-found-in-arrest-1430857232

This is what I've been saying about the two officers that made the arrest. It's the "or other device" that needs translating to say whether this knife is illegal or not.

From what I understand in my ever so small mind regarding knifes, if this knife has ANYTHING that aids you in opening the blade other than the old fashioned groove that you shove your finger in and pull the blade out, then it's illegal. Because it could fall into the "or other device" category.

Do they even make the old fashioned pocket knifes anymore?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Yes, probably. But maybe not. I want to know more about what happened exactly.

But I totally DISAGREE that the arrest was unjustified. And I do not believe he was injured before he went into the van.

It is entirely possible that he died due to 'involuntary manslaughter.' I think that many have been driven without being belt in and never died from it. So they probably had no idea he was going to die either. Should one or more be found guilty of negligence? Probably.

But MURDER? I am not sold on that charge at this point. JMO

I think attorneys are good at deflection & distraction. That being said, if a person points the finger in another direction and shouts "Murder!", it sure takes the attention away from them!

Heck, even little tykes know that strategy!

Moo

 

[octobermoon]

On top of that, would anyone blame the decedent (whether a child or an adult) for the crushed larynx, broken cervical vertebrae, and severed spinal cord? I seriously doubt it. In fact, I think a whole lotta folks would be justifiably suspicious of the events that led to the victim's injuries & death.

No they wouldn't.

 

[jjenny]

On top of that, would anyone blame the decedent (whether a child or an adult) for the crushed larynx, broken cervical vertebrae, and severed spinal cord? I seriously doubt it. In fact, I think a whole lotta folks would be justifiably suspicious of the events that led to the victim's injuries & death - especially if the person(s) charged with the care of the decedent failed to seek medical care for him when he was in need.

How did he get these injuries?

 

[popsicle]

[h=1]Police watchdog group plans 'Don't Run' ad campaign[/h]
It's called 'Don't Run' – and it is a direct response to the number of incidents of police-involved shootings around the country and here in metro Atlanta.
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...947579/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[octobermoon]

This is what I've been saying about the two officers that made the arrest. It's the "or other device" that needs translating to say whether this knife is illegal or not.

From what I understand in my ever so small mind regarding knifes, if this knife has ANYTHING that aids you in opening the blade other than the old fashioned groove that you shove your finger in and pull the blade out, then it's illegal. Because it could fall into the "or other device" category.

Do they even make the old fashioned pocket knifes anymore?

Yes they do. I checked amazon and spring assist knives are sold too.

 

[Lamima]

Has the autopsy report been released? How are you all getting crushed larynx...etc? I haven't read these threads thoroughly and have missed seeing the autopsy report.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

This is what I've been saying about the two officers that made the arrest. It's the "or other device" that needs translating to say whether this knife is illegal or not.

From what I understand in my ever so small mind regarding knifes, if this knife has ANYTHING that aids you in opening the blade other than the old fashioned groove that you shove your finger in and pull the blade out, then it's illegal. Because it could fall into the "or other device" category.

Do they even make the old fashioned pocket knifes anymore?

IMO, the knife was **concealed** which makes it illegal; regardless of what type.

 

[Wysteria]

Someone help me out. I'm confused. What does whether or not it was a legal arrest have to do with anything? Obviously, an illegal arrest would open individuals up to a separate set of charges, but more specifically, what does the arrest being legal/illegal have to do with whether or not these cops are criminally responsible for the death of FG? Just not understanding the argument. It seems to me, it could have been a completely legal arrest but still an unlawful killing/injuring/whatever. In other words, just because you make a legal arrest, one does not get free rein to do whatever they want to the prisoner. And I'm passing no judgment on guilt/innocence. Have no clue at this point myself, but I am wondering why so much attention given to the legality of the underlying arrest.

The officers charged and their families and loved ones would beg to differ.