MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[KEVINinTO]

Was this one posted?

Officer requests to see knife as part of defense in Freddie Gray case

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ie-gray-statements-20150505-story.html#page=1

Batts says he found out about charges 10 minutes before announcement

A Baltimore police task force, commissioned to investigate Gray's death, analyzed the knife and determined that it was "spring assisted" and in violation of the city's law.

This is huge IMO. If the police task-force concluded that the knife was illegal under the stricter city law how can Mosby make the statement that it was "legal" because "it is not a switchblade". She is either incredibly incompetent or is guilty of prosecutorial misconduct.

Even if the knife is deemed legal that does not make the arrest "illegal". I have seen discussion's on legal blogs that argue if the officer's were of the belief that the knife was illegal they would have probable cause to make an arrest. "Probable" is the operative word! It means that someone "most likely" committed a crime. The only way an arrest could be considered illegal is if an officer planted evidence or committed other misconduct.

It is ridiculous IMO for the SA to charge the officers with "illegal confinement". Think of all the people who get acquitted. We don't go back and charge the arresting officers with "illegal confinement".

 

[bessie]

The thread is open for posting again.

IGNORE FEATURE <<--- Click the link and learn to use it.

 

[vanlutz]

LOLing at the constant "was it a legal arrest or not" discussions like even if it were a legal arrest, that just excuses these officers of their culpability in this man's death.

The man is DEAD. Criminal or not. Lawful arrest or not. He is DEAD. Although some would have us believe the world is better off for it, but I personally believe every life is valuable in some regard.

Can we stop blaming the VICTIM in this situation by debating whether his freaking pocket knife was worth dying over. It could have been a machete and it doesn't matter because it isn't even why they chased him. They chased him because he bolted after what they assumed was a drug deal. The knife is moot to the overarching situation which is a DEAD MAN IN POLICE CUSTODY.

JMO and all that.

First it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT if it was a legal arrest or not, for the two officers that have been charged with false arrest and imprisonment. If you scream about Freddie being dead you should want JUSTICE against the actual culprits, not just everyone.

<modsnip>

 

[KEVINinTO]

Quote Originally Posted by octobermoon View Post
Is it possible that Freddie Gray could have severed his own spine and crushed his own voicebox?

From a medical standpoint, it is unlikely that the 25-year-old Baltimore man injured himself in the back of that van. The severity of his injuries seem too grave for him to have done that to himself simply by thrashing around or banging his head on something.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2205179

I find it interesting that the Doctor concludes that it is unlikely FG caused his own injuries and yet he says this in the article:

This type of injury is most often caused by a traumatic blow of the kind that would be sustained in a car accident, severe fall or an act of violence.

So if this kind of injury can be caused by a severe fall could it be that FG had a severe fall inside the van?

As we know when he was first put in the van officers put him on the bench. At the first stop when they put on the leg-restraints they found him on the floor. Did FG try to stand up while the van was moving losing his balance causing a severe fall? Remember his hands were cuffed behind his back. If he fell forward into the metal interior of the van he would not have been able to use his arms to break the fall. His head and neck would take the blunt force of the fall. Under such a scenario I could easily see how FG could have caused his own injuries. The theory advanced by the SA - that the injuries occurred when FG was placed head-first on the floor of the van in the prone position seem far less likely. Lying face down on the floor of the van FG might have slid around a bit but unless the van was involved in an accident I don't see how he could be injured while lying on the floor. I suspect that the officers probably put him in the prone position so as to prevent him from falling off the bench again.

 

[shadowraiths]

[video=youtube;uUUS4gQteBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUUS4gQteBE[/video]
Spring Assisted vs Switchblade​

 

[vanlutz]

There's speculation that Freddie did not do drugs. But, according to the speculation (an officer on FOX) Freddie had heroin in his system. If that's true, and it's the first time Freddie ingested heroin, it's quite possible he harmed himself. Of course it doesn't mean he did. But, people on hard drugs do incredible feats because their body is not functioning normally.

PCP is the worst. Two true PCP stories: A person under arrest broke through his handcuffs. He broke both wrists, but snapped the handcuffs. A person running from police fell floors down an elevator shaft, got up an kept running. He'd broken both his legs and it didn't stop him.

Heroin is also in a class of it's own.

 

[Rocco]

I find it interesting that the Doctor concludes that it is unlikely FG caused his own injuries and yet he says this in the article:



So if this kind of injury can be caused by a severe fall could it be that FG had a severe fall inside the van?

As we know when he was first put in the van officers put him on the bench. At the first stop when they put on the leg-restraints they found him on the floor. Did FG try to stand up while the van was moving losing his balance causing a severe fall? Remember his hands were cuffed behind his back. If he fell forward into the metal interior of the van he would not have been able to use his arms to break the fall. His head and neck would take the blunt force of the fall. Under such a scenario I could easily see how FG could have caused his own injuries. The theory advanced by the SA - that the injuries occurred when FG was placed head-first on the floor of the van in the prone position seem far less likely. Lying face down on the floor of the van FG might have slid around a bit but unless the van was involved in an accident I don't see how he could be injured while lying on the floor. I suspect that the officers probably put him in the prone position so as to prevent him from falling off the bench again.

But he couldn't have received the injuries when just his hands were handcuffed behind his back. If that were the case, there would have been no need to shackle his legs at the first stop because he would no longer have been thrashing around. Once a spinal cord is severed at the cervical level, you can no longer move.

 

[CoolJ]

I find it interesting that the Doctor concludes that it is unlikely FG caused his own injuries and yet he says this in the article:



So if this kind of injury can be caused by a severe fall could it be that FG had a severe fall inside the van?

As we know when he was first put in the van officers put him on the bench. At the first stop when they put on the leg-restraints they found him on the floor. Did FG try to stand up while the van was moving losing his balance causing a severe fall? Remember his hands were cuffed behind his back. If he fell forward into the metal interior of the van he would not have been able to use his arms to break the fall. His head and neck would take the blunt force of the fall. Under such a scenario I could easily see how FG could have caused his own injuries. The theory advanced by the SA - that the injuries occurred when FG was placed head-first on the floor of the van in the prone position seem far less likely. Lying face down on the floor of the van FG might have slid around a bit but unless the van was involved in an accident I don't see how he could be injured while lying on the floor. I suspect that the officers probably put him in the prone position so as to prevent him from falling off the bench again.

"Severe Fall" in my mind means .. Well "severe", as in like from a building, a bridge or a tall ladder.

 

[Wysteria]

How can LE have made an "illegal arrest" of FG anyway? Isn't that for a judge or jury to decide? Isn't running from the cops illegal and would running from the cops be probable cause for arrest? If not it should be. What all these recent cases have in common are criminals in high-crime areas running from LE, or fighting LE and then running from them.

RBBM
I agree, it should be.
I wish there was a law. Why can't it be a law?
It would be a sensible, safe law; one would think. For all parties, not just LE.

One other "new" option, putting up posters and billboards or whatever? Some people really do not know that it is never, ever a good idea to run from LE?

I know that I've stated this many times, and I'm sorry that I do...what it comes down to; in the end is personal responsibility.

 

[bettybaby00]

Interesting article, which outlines various possible explanations of FGs injuries, including self infliction while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-gray-injuries-20150420-story.html

It really is all speculation though as the article reiterates this very critical point...

Details about Gray's injury and what caused it remain unknown. Police did not release results of an autopsy conducted Monday.

I still find it curious the private autopsy results weren't released.

 

[Rocco]

"Severe Fall" in my mind means .. Well "severe", as in like from a building, a bridge or a tall ladder.

Even if a fall in the van was severe enough to cause the injury, he should have been belted in-----and the fall wouldn't have happened.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

"Severe Fall" in my mind means .. Well "severe", as in like from a building, a bridge or a tall ladder.

It reminds me more of someone jumping into the shallow end of the pool and when their head hits the concrete it is enough to severely injury their spine because of the sudden impact. Some have died from it because it affects their breathing and some have become paraplegics because of it.

From what I have read they think Freddie fail backwards and stuck his head on one of the bolts inside of the van.

Even the DA doesn't think the officers physically did this to Freddie from what I gather. That is why I think this case of negligence when they failed to get Freddie medical care.

IMO

 

[shadowraiths]

Isn't running from the cops illegal and would running from the cops be probable cause for arrest?

Probable cause for chasing and searching him. Which, imho, is why 4th amendment violation (i.e., illegal search and seizure) was not included in the charges.

 

[SStarr33]

https://www.facebook.com/TheKellyFile/videos/vb.1413426908872170/1654456821435843/?type=2&theater

Baltimore Police Lt. Ken Butler told Megyn Kelly many officers feel that the police commissioner and the state&#8217;s attorney no longer back them.

 

[EllieBee]

https://www.facebook.com/TheKellyFile/videos/vb.1413426908872170/1654456821435843/?type=2&theater

Baltimore Police Lt. Ken Butler told Megyn Kelly many officers feel that the police commissioner and the state&#8217;s attorney no longer back them.

Luckily, Megyn Kelly is a fair but balanced source. :thud:

 

[Rocco]

It reminds me more of someone jumping into the shallow end of the pool and when their head hits the concrete it is enough to severely injury their spine because of the sudden impact. Some have died from it because it affects their breathing and some have become paraplegics because of it.

From what I have read they think Freddie fail backwards and stuck his head on one of the bolts inside of the van.

Even the DA doesn't think the officers physically did this to Freddie from what I gather. That is why I think this case of negligence when they failed to get Freddie medical care.

IMO

I agree. I think negligence charges against 3 or 4 of the 6 is appropriate. But the first 2 arresting officers? I'm just shaking my head over the charges against them or any charges against them for that matter.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Interesting article, which outlines various possible explanations of FGs injuries, including self infliction while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-gray-injuries-20150420-story.html

It really is all speculation though as the article reiterates this very critical point...



I still find it curious the private autopsy results weren't released.

I have found that very strange also. By now we usually know who performed the second autopsy and what that pathologist found.

I thought I read today that the defense attorneys are also wanting FGs body exhumed so they can do their own autopsy?

IMO

 

[bettybaby00]

[video=youtube;uUUS4gQteBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUUS4gQteBE[/video]
Spring Assisted vs Switchblade​

K, LOL am I the only one disturbed at this guys knowlege on this subject, as well as his apparent skill level with these knives? Oh and the police siren soundtrack is a nice touch!

If those spring assisted knives are anything like what FG was carrying, I can't see how it would be considered legal based on the Baltimore statute?

IMO

 

[ohreally]

I do think that a person also has to take responsibility for their own well being. It does seem like all sides are saying whatever happened, happened in the van. That means that FG was acting severely injured before being placed in the van. He was able to stand on his own two feet and enter the van on his own at the next stop. If all video and reports came out that he was compliant and not faking injuries before getting in the van I would be more apt to fault the police. Where is FG's responsibility for his own safety? He was not a little kid, and had to of known that acting out could cause him serious injuries.

 

[EllieBee]

First it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT if it was a legal arrest or not, for the two officers that have been charged with false arrest and imprisonment. If you scream about Freddie being dead you should want JUSTICE against the actual culprits, not just everyone.

<modsnip>

IMO, the actual culprits have been duly charged in his death. If the court supports the charges and they are sentenced, then that is justice. If not, they are proven not guilty.

Until then, FG is the VICTIM. Why is that so hard to respect?