MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[vanlutz]

Probable cause for chasing and searching him. Which, imho, is why 4th amendment violation (i.e., illegal search and seizure) was not included in the charges.

There's two stories, but it doesn't matter which one is true, if you run from the police in a "high crime rate" area (this is one of the worst in Baltimore), the police can stop, question and search you. Which they did. But, you can not arrest them for this, it's not a crime. That's where the knife comes in. The knife could be the crime.

Story One, Freddie was just hanging out and he made eye contact with the officer and ran.

Story Two, Freddie was in the middle of a drug deal, and when he made eye contact with the officer he ran.

Which is true? Who knows. But, I'm guessing the eye contact and running is true, because Mosby did not argue it during her speech.

 

[Rocco]

I do think that a person also has to take responsibility for their own well being. It does seem like all sides are saying whatever happened, happened in the van. That means that FG was acting severely injured before being placed in the van. He was able to stand on his own two feet and enter the van on his own at the next stop. If all video and reports came out that he was compliant and not faking injuries before getting in the van I would be more apt to fault the police. Where is FG's responsibility for his own safety? He was not a little kid, and had to of known that acting out could cause him serious injuries.

His hands were handcuffed, his feet were shackled---he was defenceless. He couldn't have stopped himself from falling or belted himself in if he wanted to. I think 2 of the officers shouldn't have been charged at all, maybe 3, but the others were responsible for getting him to the station safely and they didn't do that. They have to be held accountable---- although I do think the charges that were handed down were way too severe.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Was this one posted?

Officer requests to see knife as part of defense in Freddie Gray case

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ie-gray-statements-20150505-story.html#page=1

Batts says he found out about charges 10 minutes before announcement

A Baltimore police task force, commissioned to investigate Gray's death, analyzed the knife and determined that it was "spring assisted" and in violation of the city's law.

The knife legal or illegal is very relevant to this case.

The DA based some of her charges like false imprisonment on the knife being legal. If it isn't legal to carry in Baltimore, and I do think the officers on the street would know far better than Mosby.... then she is going to have egg on her face just starting out. It is very important for the DA to appear competent and unbiased but if the knife is illegal then her credibility is going to falter. It will follow all the way into the courtroom during trial because I believe there are other unjustified charges.

Imo, that is why she has been so silent and only giving a written statement online. Her phone is probably ringing off the hook asking her WTH has she done.

If she doesn't come through and have hard evidence to prove each and every charge then she single handedly may be the reason the riots return to Baltimore a hundred times worse. Imo, she is playing a very dangerous and risky game. Not only for the six officers that deserve a fair trial but the other innocent citizens/homes/businesses and police that may suffer by her hastiness to overcharge.

Does she have her eye on being State Attorney General one day? The reason I ask is her speech to me seemed more like a political speech than anything else.

 

[shadowraiths]

K, LOL am I the only one disturbed at this guys knowlege on this subject, as well as his apparent skill level with these knives? Oh and the police siren soundtrack is a nice touch!

If those spring assisted knives are anything like what FG was carrying, I can't see how it would be considered legal based on the Baltimore statute?

IMO

Yeah, I found the video to be... odd. Unfortunately, that was the only vid I could find in my brief search that discussed the differences btwn those specific knives.

The police report (see page 3) indicates the knife was "spring assisted, one hand operated." So, from what I gather, the primary difference is, the switchblade has a button, and the spring assisted knives do not.

 

[Rocco]

The knife legal or illegal is very relevant to this case.

The DA based some of her charges like false imprisonment on the knife being legal. If it isn't legal to carry in Baltimore, and I do think the officers on the street would know far better than Mosby.... then she is going to have egg on her face just starting out. It is very important for the DA to appear competent and unbiased but if the knife is illegal then her credibility is going to falter. It will follow all the way into the courtroom during trial because I believe there are other unjustified charges.

Imo, that is why she has been so silent and only giving a written statement online. Her phone is probably ringing off the hook asking her WTH has she done.

If she doesn't come through and have hard evidence to prove each and every charge then she single handedly may be the reason the riots return to Baltimore a hundred times worse. Imo, she is playing a very dangerous and risky game. Not only for the six officers that deserve a fair trial but the other innocent citizens/homes/businesses and police that may suffer by her hastiness to overcharge.

Does she have her eye on being State Attorney General one day? The reason I ask is her speech to me seemed more like a political speech than anything else.

:goodpost:

 

[MissSunshine]

IMO, the actual culprits have been duly charged in his death. If the court supports the charges and they are sentenced, then that is justice. If not, they are proven not guilty.

Until then, FG is the VICTIM. Why is that so hard to respect?

And until the verdict is read or there is a plea deal, the officers are innocent.

 

[SStarr33]

The knife legal or illegal is very relevant to this case.

The DA based some of her charges like false imprisonment on the knife being legal. If it isn't legal to carry in Baltimore, and I do think the officers on the street would know far better than Mosby.... then she is going to have egg on her face just starting out. It is very important for the DA to appear competent and unbiased but if the knife is illegal then her credibility is going to falter. It will follow all the way into the courtroom during trial because I believe there are other unjustified charges.

Imo, that is why she has been so silent and only giving a written statement online. Her phone is probably ringing off the hook asking her WTH has she done.

If she doesn't come through and have hard evidence to prove each and every charge then she single handedly may be the reason the riots return to Baltimore a hundred times worse. Imo, she is playing a very dangerous and risky game. Not only for the six officers that deserve a fair trial but the other innocent citizens/homes/businesses and police that may suffer by her hastiness to overcharge.

Does she have her eye on being State Attorney General one day? The reason I ask is her speech to me seemed more like a political speech than anything else.

No doubt she does--they all want higher office.

And with regards to her speech--this was just posted on another site and I had not seen it before:

RULE 3.8. SPECIAL RESPONSIBILITIES OF A PROSECUTOR
West's Annotated Code of Maryland
Maryland Rules

[4] Paragraph (e) supplements Rule 3.6, which prohibits extrajudicial statements that have a substantial likelihood of prejudicing an adjudicatory proceeding. In the context of a criminal prosecution, a prosecutor's extrajudicial statement can create the additional problem of increasing public condemnation of the accused. Although the announcement of an indictment, for example, will necessarily have severe consequences for the accused, a prosecutor can, and should, avoid comments which have no legitimate law enforcement purpose and have a substantial likelihood of increasing public opprobrium of the accused. Nothing in this Comment is intended to restrict the statements which a prosecutor may make which comply with Rule 3.6(b) or 3.6(c).

https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Docume...)#co_anchor_IEB9D1D40C7E811E4848DA58741BF8332

She needs to be removed from office

 

[shadowraiths]

I do think that a person also has to take responsibility for their own well being. It does seem like all sides are saying whatever happened, happened in the van. That means that FG was acting severely injured before being placed in the van. He was able to stand on his own two feet and enter the van on his own at the next stop. If all video and reports came out that he was compliant and not faking injuries before getting in the van I would be more apt to fault the police. Where is FG's responsibility for his own safety? He was not a little kid, and had to of known that acting out could cause him serious injuries.

*sigh*

That is like saying:

I do think that a person also has to take responsibility for their own well being. It does seem like all sides are saying whatever happened, happened in the van. That means that she was acting provocative before entering the van. Did she enter the van on her own accord. If all video and reports came out that she was not engaging provocatively before getting in the van I would be more apt to fault the rapist. Where is her responsibility for her own safety? She was not a little kid, and had to of known that acting provocatively could cause her to be raped.​

See how victim blaming works?

 

[Solitaryone]

IMO, the actual culprits have been duly charged in his death. If the court supports the charges and they are sentenced, then that is justice. If not, they are proven not guilty.

Until then, FG is the VICTIM. Why is that so hard to respect?

You don't know if there are any "culprits" at all. It could very well be the case that FG injured himself and caused his own death. And IMO, the LE arrested in this case are victims of politically driven agendas. IMO.

 

[katydid23]

Yeah but he didn't just have a heart attack or a stroke and up and die. He was gravely injured by forceful trauma. NOT the same thing as just dying in someone's care.

We do not know if that is true or not.

 

[al66pine]

Peace Officers are here to protect us ALL.
One's criminal past does not negate one's right to be treated fairly under the law.

bbm

Agreeing w the above.
But one's current actions wrt LEOs cannot be ignored by LEOs in the course of their duty.
In some situations, LEOs are aware of person's past, such as his previous actions
while being arrested, restrained or transported.
Not that it allows LEOs to conclude 'crying wolf' this time.

Not drawing a personal conclusion about these BPD officers until more info is avail. JM2cts.

 

[Wysteria]

Interesting article, which outlines various possible explanations of FGs injuries, including self infliction while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-gray-injuries-20150420-story.html

It really is all speculation though as the article reiterates this very critical point...



I still find it curious the private autopsy results weren't released.

The photo at the top of the article of Freddie is absolutely heartbreaking.
No matter who, what, where, when and why; I really hope that we can unite and agree about that photo. So sad.

 

[Solitaryone]

[h=1]Police watchdog group plans 'Don't Run' ad campaign[/h]
It's called 'Don't Run' – and it is a direct response to the number of incidents of police-involved shootings around the country and here in metro Atlanta.
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...947579/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Geesh! SMH! Why is it necessary to have a "Don't Run" Campaign to begin with? I think there should be a law passed that if you run from the cops your azz goes straight to jail.

 

[vanlutz]

No doubt she does--they all want higher office.

And with regards to her speech--this was just posted on another site and I had not seen it before:

RULE 3.8. SPECIAL RESPONSIBILITIES OF A PROSECUTOR
West's Annotated Code of Maryland
Maryland Rules

[4] Paragraph (e) supplements Rule 3.6, which prohibits extrajudicial statements that have a substantial likelihood of prejudicing an adjudicatory proceeding. In the context of a criminal prosecution, a prosecutor's extrajudicial statement can create the additional problem of increasing public condemnation of the accused. Although the announcement of an indictment, for example, will necessarily have severe consequences for the accused, a prosecutor can, and should, avoid comments which have no legitimate law enforcement purpose and have a substantial likelihood of increasing public opprobrium of the accused. Nothing in this Comment is intended to restrict the statements which a prosecutor may make which comply with Rule 3.6(b) or 3.6(c).

https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Docume...)#co_anchor_IEB9D1D40C7E811E4848DA58741BF8332

She needs to be removed from office

I LOVED Mosby's speech. I truly thought it was brilliant. She and her staff took the time to charge each person appropriately with what can be argued given the absolute letter of the law. If the speed limit is 25 and the guy did 30 he's guilty of something. Or is he?

Her speech and the subsequent charges squashed the rioting.

Some of these officers are absolutely guilty of some of the charges. Not seat belting him proves that. But, is it manslaughter or murder? In order to prove that, it has to be shown that the officers knew that it was likely Freddie would die. Unfortunately, that can be shown otherwise, because everyone screams about "rough rides". Out of the thousands that have been in paddy wagons how many have died from rough rides? That's not proving "likely" that's more or less proving the opposite. Supposedly the van has a black box of sorts, so we'll have to see.

The officers will have at their defense Freddie's actions. His screaming, dragging his feet, then his quietness and standing before being put in the wagon. His having to be restrained. The possibility of his having drugs in his system.

She stopped the rioting for now. But, if that knife turns out to be illegal, and the two officers whose crimes were illegal arrest and unlawful imprisonment have the charges are dropped, what happens then?

It's a brilliant speech if she wins 100%. That ain't happening.

 

[al66pine]

Exactly.Justice is carried out in a court of law, not at the hands of LE.
These officers are so lucky that they actually GET their day in court. Freddy will not.

bbm

Yes, agreeing, justice is or should be carried out in court.

If the LEOs involved in his arrest, restraints, and transport are acquitted,
still does not mean FG 'deserved to die' that way.
Before drawing conclusions about these LEOs' possible criminal culpability, imo, we need much more info.

I hope FG's family can find healing & peace eventually, regardless of that trial outcome. RIP FG.

 

[Rocco]

The knife legal or illegal is very relevant to this case.

The DA based some of her charges like false imprisonment on the knife being legal. If it isn't legal to carry in Baltimore, and I do think the officers on the street would know far better than Mosby.... then she is going to have egg on her face just starting out. It is very important for the DA to appear competent and unbiased but if the knife is illegal then her credibility is going to falter. It will follow all the way into the courtroom during trial because I believe there are other unjustified charges.

Imo, that is why she has been so silent and only giving a written statement online. Her phone is probably ringing off the hook asking her WTH has she done.

If she doesn't come through and have hard evidence to prove each and every charge then she single handedly may be the reason the riots return to Baltimore a hundred times worse. Imo, she is playing a very dangerous and risky game. Not only for the six officers that deserve a fair trial but the other innocent citizens/homes/businesses and police that may suffer by her hastiness to overcharge.

Does she have her eye on being State Attorney General one day? The reason I ask is her speech to me seemed more like a political speech than anything else.

Here's the thing about the knife IMO:

If they knew it was illegal, they had the right to arrest him.

If they thought it was illegal but it turned out that it wasn't, they still had the right to arrest him and the courts would have sorted it out and dismissed the charges.

If they knew it wasn't illegal, I don't think they would have arrested him. Why would they do that? They would know the courts would throw out the charges and they would look like they were incompetent for arresting someone who was carrying a legal knife.

 

[ohreally]

*sigh*

That is like saying:

I do think that a person also has to take responsibility for their own well being. It does seem like all sides are saying whatever happened, happened in the van. That means that she was acting provocative before entering the van. Did she enter the van on her own accord. If all video and reports came out that she was not engaging provocatively before getting in the van I would be more apt to fault the rapist. Where is her responsibility for her own safety? She was not a little kid, and had to of known that acting provocatively could cause her to be raped.​

See how victim blaming works?

I can see your point, and I agree with your interpretation of my comment. I am talking more along the lines of riding in the backseat of a van without a seatbelt on. In my state it is legal for an adult not to have a seatbelt on. Now if the passenger gets up starts walking around stumbles hits their head in something and dies I sure don't think the driver would be up on murder or manslaughter charges.

 

[al66pine]

Was this one posted?
Officer requests to see knife as part of defense in Freddie Gray case
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ie-gray-statements-20150505-story.html#page=1 ....
A Baltimore police task force, commissioned to investigate Gray's death, analyzed the knife and determined that it was "spring assisted" and in violation of the city's law.

Hitting pay/registration wall at B-Sun.
Can someone pls copy & paste pix of knife?
Same w quote (not paraphrase) describing knife, i.e. manu name, model, etc. plus speaker of quote?
Thx in adv.

 

[al66pine]

Re Knife

They don't have any pictures of the knife at that link. BTW with sites with pay-walls I view them in "incognito" mode in Google Chrome and when I hit the limit just close out the browser and reopen it and it resets the counter.

KEVINinTO
Thanks for this ^ info. I'm a klutz on things like that, so will have to get Chrome.
In the meantime, anyone -
what about a copy & paste of a few sentences, exactly what the person said about knife & who was it?

 

[bettybaby00]

Hitting pay/registration wall at B-Sun.
Can someone pls copy & paste pix of knife?
Same w quote (not paraphrase) describing knife, i.e. manu name, model, etc. plus speaker of quote?
Thx in adv.

There is no picture of the knife. From the article.

"The State baldly asserts that 'the knife was not a switchblade knife and is lawful under Maryland law,'" Zayon wrote in the motion filed in Baltimore District Court. "The State further suggests that the Defendant 'failed to establish probable cause for Mr. Gray's arrest, as no crime had been committed.'"

Zayon contests Mosby's claim that officers illegally arrested Gray, and he said an inspection of the knife will show it was illegal.

State law says a person may not "display" a "switchblade" or a "knife or a penknife having a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife."

Baltimore City code says a person can't carry or possess any knife "with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife."

A Baltimore police task force, commissioned to investigate Gray's death, analyzed the knife and determined that it was "spring assisted" and in violation of the city's law.

The video comparison posted earlier depicting a "spring assisted knife" certainly seems to accurately describe what is outlined in the statute.

Also, I know TCH blog can't be linked, but FWIW there is a new post containing BPD/EMS dispatch recording indicating that a call did go out for medical assistance during the trip.

If accurate, Mosby's assertion that Goodson made no effort to get FG aid appears to be false.