CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

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In what ways has your life changed?

Do you ever read Reddit? Have you read the subReddit about this case and about me?

Yes.

Everything’s changed.

^^ Geez ..
 
Jessen said:
Part 2 is up:

JAY SPEAKS PART 2: ‘HAE WAS DEAD BEFORE SHE GOT TO MY HOUSE. ANYTHING THAT MAKES ADNAN INNOCENT DOESN’T INVOLVE ME.’
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/30/exclusive-jay-part-2/
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In this part 2 of yesterdays article..(for Jay this is the same day) Hae's body has moved back into Adnans trunk.

So from here ...She somehow gets back into her own trunk as her car is the one that is backed down the hill...

See, how easy it is in getting caught up in trying to fit his lies into the story...ugh..

I think the conclusion SK should have come to ,was that Adnan's conviction is not one most people consider a legally just one. No need to prove he was innocent when he should not have been found guilty of murder based on someone who freely admits to deflecting investigators, lying to them , leaving witnesses out of the story. He cant even keep his motive for lying straight.
 
And I feel like if I did talk to her, it would have given her twice as much ammo to twist my words.
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Lol...no one needs ammo to twist his words!! They change every time he opens his mouth!
 
Soulmagent said:
In this part 2 of yesterdays article..(for Jay this is the same day) Hae's body has moved back into Adnans trunk.

So from here ...She somehow gets back into her own trunk as her car is the one that is backed down the hill...

See, how easy it is in getting caught up in trying to fit his lies into the story...ugh..

I think the conclusion SK should have come to ,was that Adnan's conviction is not one most people consider a legally just one. No need to prove he was innocent when he should not have been found guilty of murder based on someone who freely admits to deflecting investigators, lying to them , leaving witnesses out of the story. He cant even keep his motive for lying straight.
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Taken in full, the comment about the trunk obviously refers to the car he was driving at the time, not specifically adnans trunk.


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MzOpinion8d said:
What do you think about Jay's new interview where he changes his story yet again? And now says they buried her at midnight? His testimony is worthless.
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I think it speaks to Jays ultimate, overall honesty that he is not trying to make his interview details fit what he said in the past. He is just finally telling it as he remembers it, 15 years later, without the threat of long drug charges hanging over him (remember back in the 90s pot dealing, especially in a school zone, still carried heavy charges. And could possibly have affected his grandmother's home if he was running his potoperationout of there).

He has admitted to lying in his police interviews. It still comes across to me as true that at 19, trying to protect himself, his friends, and his grandmother, he lies on the smaller details while still trying to do the right thing and give overall truthful testimony about what he knows about Hae's murder.


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All this said, I'm don't think I would have voted to convict- but I do think Adnan committed this murder.


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SFBA said:
Whether that's the case or not, smugness doesn't relate to murderous tendencies. (If it did, my annoyingly arrogant French Poetry classmates definitely would have offed one another!)

IMO the most alarming part of this case is that the whole conviction was based on Jay's testimony and Jay is a known liar who's changed his story numerous times. I'm still on the fence as to whether Adnan did it (leaning toward thinking he probably did) but all of Jay's story changes / admissions of lying to police / general inconsistencies give me plenty of reasonable doubt and, for that reason, I think Adnan was unfairly convicted. JMO.
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Not saying smugness equates to murderous tendencies. Just giving my impression of how each sounds, how their words come across to my ear.

Also, the conviction was not based solely on Jays testimony. There was Hae's letter to Adnan, her diary, the "I will kill" notation, the fact that no one could account for Adnan at either practice or at the mosque (other than his dad), and the multiple witnesses (and Adnan himself admits) hearing him try to get a ride with Hae that afternoon.

Admittedly, I am not sure that sitting on the jury I would have voted to convict. But to say Jays testimony was the only thing that convicted Adnan is false.


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MzOpinion8d said:
Am I correct that there was no DNA testing done here at all?
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Correct. That was one of the big reveals in episode 12...the Innocence Project is filing a motion to have forensic evidence tested (hair fibers, nail clippings, rope found at the scene). SK told Adnan this and at first he was hesitant, but agreed to it.
 
Jessen said:
Correct. That was one of the big reveals in episode 12...the Innocence Project is filing a motion to have forensic evidence tested (hair fibers, nail clippings, rope found at the scene). SK told Adnan this and at first he was hesitant, but agreed to it.
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I think his hesitant reaction was telling. he eventually agreed because hey, he has nothing to lose. An off chance the DNA comes back as not Adnan, in which case, good for his appeal. Another chance, it comes back to him, and the IP quietly drops the whole matter (they will not say publicly if they come across evidence against Adnan.), with no penalty to him at all.

Chances are though that the DNA comes back as Adnan, Don, Jay, or someone else who could have an innocent/explainable reason for it being there (Jay because he helped with the burial, Don because he was her boyfriend, Adnan because he either had contact with her during the day/was in car previously/murdered her), and thus will really not open up any new possibilities.


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Marking this thread, this sounds like a really interesting concept on presenting a case like this. Can't wait to have some free time to get truly lost in it. Thanks for all the links.
 
hayaletcatcher said:
Marking this thread, this sounds like a really interesting concept on presenting a case like this. Can't wait to have some free time to get truly lost in it. Thanks for all the links.
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I am not sure I would do it all over.

I dont like following a case like that. I only remember hearing a tiny blurb about Hae missing ,or maybe seeing a poster from when it happened.

I would have rather read over the court stuff first I think, and then listened . I did like the show, but reading over the court case I wouldnt be left with all Sarah's question about is Adnan a murder or a psychopath. I believe I would have formed whatever opinion on the actual paper work, statements , with the presumption of innocent ,instead of the questions of the fair trial . Hard to decided if he is guilty ,when you cant even consider the evidence. Or you have to infer what the liar is telling the truth about.

I guess the best way to explain it is all the "personal insight" and discoveries of flaws of everyone close to the case 15 year hindsight, distracts objectivity.
Does it not? I dont know..ugh.
 
Honestly, I don't know how Jay sleeps at night! Pathological liar comes to mind when Jay opens his mouth. And he is quite the drama king. I don't know who did it. I do know Adnan did not get a fair trial: Reasonable Doubt just screams out to me.
 
I read the new interviews (and also the reddit discussions about them) and I'm confused as ever. :lol: Jay seems to have an absolute inability to tell the truth or stick to one story and I don't trust him in the slightest.

I'm not saying Adnan is innocent, just that I don't think the burden of proof has been met, therefore he should not have been found guilty (IMO).
 
Auburnlucky7 said:
Honestly, I don't know how Jay sleeps at night! Pathological liar comes to mind when Jay opens his mouth. And he is quite the drama king. I don't know who did it. I do know Adnan did not get a fair trial: Reasonable Doubt just screams out to me.
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Well I picture him sleeping in a fetal position under all his blankets probably with a ground strap , so God cant strike him down with the lighting bolt.

I find it very confusing that whatever he is scared of ,he is scared of it much more passionately then his weird being taken down by god fear.
 
I can't believe how many people are willing to believe Jay over Adnan. Because what it really comes down to is who you believe, since there's no actual evidence. Not only does Jay lie, he changes his story 5 times in the course of events before the trial and now his new interview makes 6. So if he's telling "the truth" now since he's all grown up and not scared anymore, what does it mean that the sequence of events he's giving now completely blows up all the cell tower evidence the state made their case on?

I'm honestly actually scared that people can be fooled by someone like Jay so easily. There's not enough evidence to say either of them did this but why is it automatically believed that Jay knew all he knew just because he was an accomplice and it's out of the question he had all the info because he was the one who actually did it?

There's NO EVIDENCE!! I'm not yelling at anyone here but after all the reading I've done I cannot believe how many people are absolutely convinced Adnan is guilty simply because Jay says so. Truly scary.
 
So...Jay's wife, the Google Queen did not say oh listen to the podcast? And his lawyer approved the interview? Rabia is saying there's no statue of limitations on perjury. Your move, Slim Wilds. Btw, I love (sarcasm) how Granny now has this drug compound, Adnan is the Big Bad Wolf, and Slim Wilds is innocent little helper boy just trying to get his girl a present. The other thing missing from Jay's story? He doesn't mention giving Stephanie her birthday gift. On Rabia's blog, there's a document with the contents of Hae's car. Interesting.
 
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