Deceased/Not Found MD - Heather Grogg, 33, & Danielle Tyler, 18, Carroll Co, 6 Apr 2020 *arrest*

[CuriousQuiet1]

http://www.mcac.maryland.gov/resources/2013 Public Gang Threat Assessment.pdf
WHITE PRISON GANGS: Dead Man Inc.

Dead Man Inc?

Thanks for this! I looked at the picture when you posted it some time ago and I find myself straining my eyes to try and make sense of the tattoos, so I have flipped the image in the attached. Makes it a bit easier to read for me.

Looks like a denim vest behind him, as someone pointed out earlier with a "rocker" patch that says Prospect. Reading on the web it seems common in motorcycle clubs that a prospect can't wear the MC name or logo until they become a full member. It looks like Pagans to me because they require denim while most other MCs wear leather, but I am no expert.

 

[jackiejack]

Hey everybody!

I've been following this case and this specific thread here since the beginning but I just now got my wits about me in regards to joining in on this discussion. I am currently living in downtown Westminster. I went to school with both DS and ERD. They were your typical bad apples. No surprises there. Anyways, I will more than happily venture my happy hiney down to the Mews or anywhere you guys would like to see around here. (My own street is just as gnarly and I'm a recovering junk junk myself so...I've seen far worse neighborhoods.) Prior to my knowledge that DS and ERD lived at The Mews, it's the exact location I pictured in my mind when first reading of this event happening. This area is kinda *advertiser censored* and cops are always around. How did they get JR to the car?!?! The street can view the parking lot! Gas station right across the street. HOW?!

On JR's old FB page, he makes a post (in 2012) stating: "Wish the old me would come back. Miss u pap wish we had more time. Gonna try and get out of Westminster for a little." Mannn. I just feel like I know all (not just two) of the players here personally because they all mirror this archetype that I grew up directly parallel to (until we intersected at good ol' drug addiction.)

Anyways, thanks for having me. <modsnip>

 

[abstr]

Hey everybody!

I've been following this case and this specific thread here since the beginning but I just now got my wits about me in regards to joining in on this discussion. I am currently living in downtown Westminster. I went to school with both DS and ERD. They were your typical bad apples. No surprises there. Anyways, I will more than happily venture my happy hiney down to the Mews or anywhere you guys would like to see around here. (My own street is just as gnarly and I'm a recovering junk junk myself so...I've seen far worse neighborhoods.) Prior to my knowledge that DS and ERD lived at The Mews, it's the exact location I pictured in my mind when first reading of this event happening. This area is kinda *advertiser censored* and cops are always around. How did they get JR to the car?!?! The street can view the parking lot! Gas station right across the street. HOW?!

On JR's old FB page, he makes a post (in 2012) stating: "Wish the old me would come back. Miss u pap wish we had more time. Gonna try and get out of Westminster for a little." Mannn. I just feel like I know all (not just two) of the players here personally because they all mirror this archetype that I grew up directly parallel to (until we intersected at good ol' drug addiction.)

Anyways, thanks for having me. <modsnip>

Perhaps you could get verified. If you are willing to go take a picture of apt 1-?

 

[abstr]

I can’t imagine neighbors did not hear anything but of course if you want to stay safe you lay low IMO

 

[mompalm]

Hey everybody!

I've been following this case and this specific thread here since the beginning but I just now got my wits about me in regards to joining in on this discussion. I am currently living in downtown Westminster. I went to school with both DS and ERD. They were your typical bad apples. No surprises there. Anyways, I will more than happily venture my happy hiney down to the Mews or anywhere you guys would like to see around here. (My own street is just as gnarly and I'm a recovering junk junk myself so...I've seen far worse neighborhoods.) Prior to my knowledge that DS and ERD lived at The Mews, it's the exact location I pictured in my mind when first reading of this event happening. This area is kinda *advertiser censored* and cops are always around. How did they get JR to the car?!?! The street can view the parking lot! Gas station right across the street. HOW?!

On JR's old FB page, he makes a post (in 2012) stating: "Wish the old me would come back. Miss u pap wish we had more time. Gonna try and get out of Westminster for a little." Mannn. I just feel like I know all (not just two) of the players here personally because they all mirror this archetype that I grew up directly parallel to (until we intersected at good ol' drug addiction.)

Anyways, thanks for having me. <modsnip>

Welcome @jackiejack ! I live in Westminster, too, but not in town. Also, I don't know any of the players personally.

I am familiar with the location of DS apt. and have also wondered if anyone heard or saw all the ruckus when JR was stabbed.

Glad to have your input!

 

[Mayjunejuly]

My only guess to why his mom and family didn’t give money is due to his past addiction issues. When I used my family cut me off—- I wouldn’t even bother calling for money because I already knew the answer and didn’t want to deal with the bs of talking and asking looking pathetic. I can’t say JR felt the same or his family also didn’t enable him but it seems to me that they didn’t give the money because they thought it was a rouse.... And he was just calling to get more money to get high. I wonder if he used the words “I need the money or I’ll be killed” maybe the whole time he thought that it wouldn’t get that far... idk

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

DMI is active in numerous prison facilities in Maryland. Units operating outside the prisons are identified by the region they cover, such as Brooklyn, South Baltimore, Southwest Baltimore, Southeast Baltimore, Dundalk, Westminster, Glen Burnie, etc.

RSBM

Westminster, MD has enough Dead Man Inc members to warrant a mention in the US District Attorney's report on gang violence?!?! I have not seen that part of Westminster.

 

[Frederick Guy]

I don't think that means it's a gang-infested area. I think Westminster's relative proximity to Baltimore, and the fact that it is a heavily white area with a significant working-class population, means that it will have some connection to white prison gangs. I live in a much more rural area in Western Maryland, and I'm sure we have some DMI members, but there aren't enough people out here to justify a mention (as opposed to in Westminster and the various Baltimore enclaves).

In other words, it's more a function of numbers than criminality.

 

[Knox]

Thanks for this! I looked at the picture when you posted it some time ago and I find myself straining my eyes to try and make sense of the tattoos, so I have flipped the image in the attached. Makes it a bit easier to read for me.

Looks like a denim vest behind him, as someone pointed out earlier with a "rocker" patch that says Prospect. Reading on the web it seems common in motorcycle clubs that a prospect can't wear the MC name or logo until they become a full member. It looks like Pagans to me because they require denim while most other MCs wear leather, but I am no expert.

I'd like to know what all that writing says. Florida (I think its that State), lists inmates tattoos, does WV DOC do that?

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I'd like to know what all that writing says. Florida (I think its that State), lists inmates tattoos, does WV DOC do that?

I can't find anything like that for WV. Just the basic info from Search - OIS Search

 

[abstr]

I don't think that means it's a gang-infested area. I think Westminster's relative proximity to Baltimore, and the fact that it is a heavily white area with a significant working-class population, means that it will have some connection to white prison gangs. I live in a much more rural area in Western Maryland, and I'm sure we have some DMI members, but there aren't enough people out here to justify a mention (as opposed to in Westminster and the various Baltimore enclaves).

In other words, it's more a function of numbers than criminality.

I was told several years ago by an undercover officer of two areas of Westminster to stay away from at night because of two gangs. Now, to someone in East Baltimore oh Philly, they would find it laughable but I have listened. I don’t live there but close enough that I sometimes go for shopping. The rise in crime is notable to me.

 

[Mayjunejuly]

I really don’t like how WV has their court system set up, you can’t get any access to the case unless you go to the courthouse to use their computer or order the information which I’m sure they charge per page!! I wish it was like most other states and you could access the minutes... oh well! Is anyone planning on making a trip to the court house? I wouldn’t be opposed to it but I’ll probably wait until the trials get underway! If they give me the info I’ll post it here! I probably won’t go til starts so that could be months... maybe even a year .... it looks like all cases except ERD were ruled as enough probable cause for a grand jury who will likely indict all of these cases... so once that happens things will really start going and we will get far more information if we stay active in finding it!

 

[Mayjunejuly]

I have yet to make the time to turn in but as I pass this place every day on my way to work, seeing the CLEAR VIEW OF THE STREET, I truly wonder how nobody saw an injured and bleeding grown man being carried/dragged to a vehicle parked right there?! I cannot get past that part.

There’s a back, deadens parking lot which is likely where the cars were... of you have a large group covering you might be able to get him to a car they probably brought the car up to the door I’d imagine and it was prob taken out the back lot? And it was middle of the night during the peak of pandemic and stay at home order, maybe ppl were asleep or just not out idk or didn’t care !

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I have yet to make the time to turn in but as I pass this place every day on my way to work, seeing the CLEAR VIEW OF THE STREET, I truly wonder how nobody saw an injured and bleeding grown man being carried/dragged to a vehicle parked right there?! I cannot get past that part.

I don't know for sure what time JR was taken to the car but I'm guessing after midnight, so combined with the pandemic probably not many passers-by. Also as you can see in mompalm's post last week you can drive a car up very close to the back or side doors and not go out the front, toward the street.

Deceased/Not Found - MD - Heather Grogg, 33, & Danielle Tyler, 18, Carroll County, 6 April 2020 *arrest*

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

“Diana said she knew something was amiss March 18 when she saw Jon’s work clothes were still at home. She wondered why he hadn’t gone to work.“

This is strange. She got worried in the afternoon after she noticed that his clothes were still there. But wouldn’t she have known that he didn’t even come back the night before? Even if she went to bed before he left, wouldn’t she have noticed that he never came to bed?

RSBM

I just remembered JR had 2 Facebook pages. One of them said he worked the night shift at Evapco. Maybe he stopped by to visit HG on his way to work that night? If he was working the night shift it might be common for them to not see each other until afternoon because Diana would be out of the house early getting the kids to school before she went to work. I'm thinking she didn't notice the work clothes were still at home until she noticed something was odd and started looking around carefully.

I'm not sure how COVID would have altered all that. Were Carroll County schools closed before March 17? Was Evapco still operating then? Was JR still working at Evapco?

 

[Venom]

RSBM

I just remembered JR had 2 Facebook pages. One of them said he worked the night shift at Evapco. Maybe he stopped by to visit HG on his way to work that night? If he was working the night shift it might be common for them to not see each other until afternoon because Diana would be out of the house early getting the kids to school before she went to work. I'm thinking she didn't notice the work clothes were still at home until she noticed something was odd and started looking around carefully.

I'm not sure how COVID would have altered all that. Were Carroll County schools closed before March 17? Was Evapco still operating then? Was JR still working at Evapco?

I searched and it looks like the schools closed March 13. She might have been home teleworking, depending on her type of work. Evapco looklike they do air conditioning, I couldn't find anything about them closing. I live about 40 minutes from the area (different state) and businesses were allowed to stay open if they were essential, maybe Maryland businesses were as well.

 

[Mayjunejuly]

I'm not sure how COVID would have altered all that. Were Carroll County schools closed before March 17? Was Evapco still operating then? Was JR still working at Evapco?

RSBM

I’m not sure which company he worked for when he died, but wherever he was working it was open (per linked article) as DR said she expected him to be at work ( he had work clothing, meaning he was typically working so it was likely an essential business. If that evapco company is an AC/HVAC company it was likely still working. My husband is a electrician and his company was considered essential throughout the pandemic. I’m sure AC /HVaC is also essential.

also while re-reading this article-
‘Inseparable’: Widow of murder victim Jonathan Riddle remembers him as fun-loving, family-oriented


I’m starting to feel DR knew what JR was going to do [JR going to use meth with HG ] because DR told LE when she reported him missing/when she was talking to detectives after LE found JR’s body, that he [JR] had gone to HG’s home to visit before he disappeared/was killed..... see quote below from linked article , where DR tells LE that JR went to see HG the night he died.

“He was the sweetest person. He would give the shirt off his back for anyone," Diana Riddle said in an interview Monday. “I just can’t imagine that anyone would have any sort of issue with him that would warrant this.” To the best of her knowledge, Diana said, her husband did not know any of those accused of killing him. He did know Heather Grogg, she said. Police wrote in the criminal complaint that Jonathan Riddle had gone to see Grogg the night of March 17.”​

She starts off saying that JR is good guy and I’m sure he was. She then hints that she wants ppl to remember JR for the man he was not “the way he died”, maybe due to his drug use, she didn’t want people focusing on that aspect. As in DR Could have felt that if she came right out to admitting she knew he used maybe that would taint his reputation and image—- even if he was a great guy ! I mean I’m just saying I understand that once the media gets ahold of stories they can rip people apart and if they highlight his addiction it could be sort of victims shaming in a way? Idk I just thought that was interesting. Anyways at the end it says she knew he was at HGs and I’m going to guess DR knew why JR would be seeing HG (to use drugs) and as a another user mentioned, he likely didn’t have access to the family bank account /DRs account. I’m sure she kept her finances aside to ensure bills were paid, and her children were taken care of. She had to, as a mother her first priority will be her kids. But sadly I’m guessing she might have given him the 40$! So why not call her?! In one of my last posts I suggested JR did not call DR because he didn’t want her to know he was using or possibly due to JR being at HGs home. however, after re-reading this article I’m thinking DR knew where and what JR was doing but thought he went and everything was good or was holding out hope. But regardless of what DR thought during this time why didn’t JR call her and say I’m so sorry but I’m going to die without 40$ please send me it! Or get me it!

Idk I’m just spit balling and now I’m even more confused about the motives and everything for this! It’s either over something as simple as $40 worth of meth stolen..... or something far more sinister idk

 

[Steph8angels]

@Mayjunejuly
I agree 1000%
JMO
With your post
I always thought JR being murdered had another motive.
If he would of got the 40.00 to pay them, I still think they would of killed him anyway.

Has there been any updates on memorials for DT and HG yet?
Any updates on their remains at all?
So much murder for 40.00
They spent that much in gas..... Back and forth and leading the girls to their deaths.

Just seems we are missing a piece to this case for additional murders.
Senseless and pain EVIL.......

 

[pizzaman12]

RSBM

I’m not sure which company he worked for when he died, but wherever he was working it was open (per linked article) as DR said she expected him to be at work ( he had work clothing, meaning he was typically working so it was likely an essential business. If that evapco company is an AC/HVAC company it was likely still working. My husband is a electrician and his company was considered essential throughout the pandemic. I’m sure AC /HVaC is also essential.

also while re-reading this article-
‘Inseparable’: Widow of murder victim Jonathan Riddle remembers him as fun-loving, family-oriented


I’m starting to feel DR knew what JR was going to do [JR going to use meth with HG ] because DR told LE when she reported him missing/when she was talking to detectives after LE found JR’s body, that he [JR] had gone to HG’s home to visit before he disappeared/was killed..... see quote below from linked article , where DR tells LE that JR went to see HG the night he died.

“He was the sweetest person. He would give the shirt off his back for anyone," Diana Riddle said in an interview Monday. “I just can’t imagine that anyone would have any sort of issue with him that would warrant this.” To the best of her knowledge, Diana said, her husband did not know any of those accused of killing him. He did know Heather Grogg, she said. Police wrote in the criminal complaint that Jonathan Riddle had gone to see Grogg the night of March 17.”​

She starts off saying that JR is good guy and I’m sure he was. She then hints that she wants ppl to remember JR for the man he was not “the way he died”, maybe due to his drug use, she didn’t want people focusing on that aspect. As in DR Could have felt that if she came right out to admitting she knew he used maybe that would taint his reputation and image—- even if he was a great guy ! I mean I’m just saying I understand that once the media gets ahold of stories they can rip people apart and if they highlight his addiction it could be sort of victims shaming in a way? Idk I just thought that was interesting. Anyways at the end it says she knew he was at HGs and I’m going to guess DR knew why JR would be seeing HG (to use drugs) and as a another user mentioned, he likely didn’t have access to the family bank account /DRs account. I’m sure she kept her finances aside to ensure bills were paid, and her children were taken care of. She had to, as a mother her first priority will be her kids. But sadly I’m guessing she might have given him the 40$! So why not call her?! In one of my last posts I suggested JR did not call DR because he didn’t want her to know he was using or possibly due to JR being at HGs home. however, after re-reading this article I’m thinking DR knew where and what JR was doing but thought he went and everything was good or was holding out hope. But regardless of what DR thought during this time why didn’t JR call her and say I’m so sorry but I’m going to die without 40$ please send me it! Or get me it!

Idk I’m just spit balling and now I’m even more confused about the motives and everything for this! It’s either over something as simple as $40 worth of meth stolen..... or something far more sinister idk

In my opinion, it's just a bunch of meth heads doing meth head things. Are their actions extreme in this specific case? Yes, of course they are.

Not to sound crass but having multiple siblings wrapped up in similar worlds, I just don't think any of the above is all that uncommon sadly. I've tried to stay away from this case but I love the work @Knox is putting in even though I can't bring myself to participate too much

 

[abstr]

I had to go pick something up near Westminster yesterday so I went into town and by Main Street Mews. I was at the light long enough to be able to count in and see where 11 would be. There is a grill on the stoop, so I think it is occupied. Of course I have no idea by whom. As I have stated before, I would not feel comfortable driving into the complex as it is quite small and a dead end parking lot.
I think this is going to be protracted (due to Covid and how many agencies, states and counties are involved) and I think the public will never know the entire story.
All JMO