MD MD - Keith Warren, 19, Silver Spring, 30 Jul 1986

[Grifynne]

I personally don't believe this was a suicide. Just a few thoughts, and please feel free to disagree if this is off the wall. Two things stand out in my mind:

1. Different clothing - I think someone mentioned the theory that perhaps he was partying, put on different clothes to conceal who he was partying with and then things went wrong and he died somehow, etc. My problem with this is that you would assume that the people he was partying with would dispose of his clothing to hide evidence rather than leaving them or otherwise giving them to LE. The other part to that is, why didn't LE give the family BOTH sets of clothing? How would they know that the ones he was wearing WEREN'T his and that the ones he wasn't wearing (possibly found at the scene?) were? To me this indicates that someone within LE was involved in setting up the "suicide" scene.

2. The photos - I think I saw comments on one of the YouTube videos that someone indicated that they felt the photos were left on the family's doorstep as a taunt because they "got away with it" essentially. While this is possible, isn't it also possible that someone within LE knows what happened and feels guilty? Perhaps they are trying to discreetly give the family what they need to learn what really happened? Perhaps it is a deep enough cover up that if someone within LE that wanted to help the Warrens was noticed, they might also disappear. It is evident that there are a number of people who know something and aren't saying anything or are now dead.

This whole thing sounds sketchy to me. While I can sort of see the idea that maybe he was secretly partying and ODed somewhere and his companions tried to make it look like a suicide, there are way too many instances of LE taking strange and unusual measures in the case - even before informing Keith's mother about what happened. Choosing a funeral home, having the body taken care of, cutting down the tree then later "losing" it in a fire, only sending Keith's actual clothing (which would be less likely to alert the family that something is amiss and proves that LE somehow knew which garments Keith ACTUALLY wore), I don't know there's just too much there to discount the idea that LE is involved.

 

[emchamberlain]

To Sherri Warren: Much love and perseverence babe ; ) It's always been quite the fight, eh? I'm still here if you need me, still have all the case files that Joe sent, you just tell me what you need.

p.s. I was just in Silverspring not 3 months ago, thought of your family, thought of Keith. Miss our chats. Call me, email me, same contact info, you know where I am.

-Em

 

[pdxmama]

To Sherri Warren: Much love and perseverence babe ; ) It's always been quite the fight, eh? I'm still here if you need me, still have all the case files that Joe sent, you just tell me what you need.

p.s. I was just in Silverspring not 3 months ago, thought of your family, thought of Keith. Miss our chats. Call me, email me, same contact info, you know where I am.

-Em

emchamberlain - It sounds like you know the family or at least the original poster. I haven't seen any new activity on the blog or here since March of last year. I would love to have the OP (I'm assuming Sherrie Warren) come back and talk with us. I would also love to hear any theories or thoughts you may have.

I have a list of 7 questions above and I'm really interested in what they "official" responses to those questions are if there have been any response from LE to specific questions (I haven't found any.)

 

[marie-chantal]

This case makes me want to simultaneously cry, throw up, and punch a wall. There are so many suspicious elements to this police "investigation" (can't even term this as a legitimate investigation-it would almost be comical if it didn't involve the death of an innocent young man), that it is almost overwhelming.

I read a comment on that blog that Keith's hands were curled up with the exception of the forefinger and thumb. I've been sitting here for 20 minutes picking up various items without curling my forefinger and thumb around them, and I do think that they were in this position because he fought someone off. In the throws of a seizure, all of the fingers would curl up. If he was holding something, it would be awkward without the use of all fingers, especially without the two strongest fingers on the hand. If he was actually holding something, it would have had to be very, very small.

Silver Spring is right outside of Washington, DC. This isn't some isolated little town where murders only happen once a decade, and the police department isn't equipped to conduct a proper investigation. If it was, I might be able to give LE a bit of a break here.

To me, there are a lot of racist elements in this crime. A young African-American male hanging from a tree screams murder and racism. I was surprised and sickened to hear about all the white supremacist groups in the area. Who reported the car full of black males? Was this ever substantiated? Again, to me, this seems like an attempt at stereotyping and cover-up.

Mark F's statement that he "needs to unload" is the thing that really leads me to believe that there was a big coverup here. I'm assuming Mark was a native English speaker. This is an idiomatic expression that a non-native speaker would most likely not use. The use of this phrase indicates that Mark was keeping a secret and had to talk about it. "I need to vent" is what someone would say if they were frustrated and angry, but not keeping a secret. "I need to unload" is similar to "I need to get something off my chest", although the second phrase indicates confession, while the first indicates the speaker has been carrying secret or unspeakable information around and can't psychologically deal with the burden. Who is this Mark Findlay? I normally never ask this question, but I think it matters in this case: what was his racial background? There was a mention earlier that he was involved with drugs. Did Keith actually hang around him on a regular basis/in the time leading up to his death? I cannot believe that Keith's friends have never come forward or offered condolences to his family. That is so very suspicious, IMO. They should have been interviewed.

Who was the one who mentioned the guys in the car? How did they know this? Were those men ever found? I'd be very surprised if they actually existed. If this wasn't a racist hate crime, then the only other explanation (IMO) is that it was staged to look that way.

Lastly, I cannot believe that they embalmed him without the family's consent. Embalming is not something that is done in every culture and religious group. It also costs extra money. I think this was ordered in an attempt to cover something up. Too bad they were too stupid to know that embalming him wouldn't hide all evidence.

 

[marie-chantal]

The Washington Post article had a comment that stated that Keith had been actively dating prior to his death; not necessarily dating one person, but going on dates. There was also a mention in the comments about a four pack of wine coolers. I wonder if he was planning to meet someone in the woods that day? If the police were doing their jobs properly, once they noticed it wasn't a suicide (again-if they were doing their jobs correctly) they should have investigated the house from where the phone call was made. Did Claudia ever date Keith? What was Keith's relationship to the occupants of the house?

The comment about him being in the basement is really hinky. Claudia then later said he was in the woods. That basement should have been investigated thoroughly. I wonder if he was invited in, hanging out in the basement, offered a drink, poisoned and then moved. I wonder if the basement mention was a freudian slip by someone who knew more than was reported. Basement and woods are not even similar sounding words. I might understand someone who is stressed out or in fear mixing up basement with garage, living room with kitchen, bedroom with hallway, etc. (as in, these things are all related). Basement and woods have no connection/similar sound/same letters/same number of syllables/proximity/similarity. Know what I mean? There is a huge difference between finding a body in one's basement and happening to come upon a body in the woods while one is walking their dog. How on earth could someone say something initially and then change it to something so different later on? It's not logical and it is highly suspicious.

What type of a dog did Claudia have? I looked at those pictures of the woods. That's a pretty densely forested area. I have a pomeranian. I also have woods in my neighborhood. I've never seen anyone walking their dogs in the woods, and my dog never wants to even try to go into the woods. I might be able to understand a person in the woods with a hunting dog, but a woman with a non-sporting dog walking through those woods on her own seems strange to me.

Why did Alan try to sue over his image in the photos? Why would anyone do this, especially if the body is there due to suicide? I might be able to understand freaking out over being photographed with someone who was the victim of a serial killer or gang retaliation, but not a suicide. Very odd, IMO.

I wonder if the house has ever been searched. If the original owners are no longer living there, the new owners might consent to allowing someone into the basement. I think that basement should have been searched.

 

[pdxmama]

I keep checking this thread and there's nothing. The thread on this case is almost as weird as the case itself. There have been two people other than the OP that have posted in this thread that appeared to have more information but one of their posts have all disappeared and the other never came back. The OP hasn't come back either to answer questions.

What is up with this case? It's driving me crazy!

 

[pdxmama]

This case makes me want to simultaneously cry, throw up, and punch a wall. There are so many suspicious elements to this police "investigation" (can't even term this as a legitimate investigation-it would almost be comical if it didn't involve the death of an innocent young man), that it is almost overwhelming.

I read a comment on that blog that Keith's hands were curled up with the exception of the forefinger and thumb. I've been sitting here for 20 minutes picking up various items without curling my forefinger and thumb around them, and I do think that they were in this position because he fought someone off. In the throws of a seizure, all of the fingers would curl up. If he was holding something, it would be awkward without the use of all fingers, especially without the two strongest fingers on the hand. If he was actually holding something, it would have had to be very, very small.

Silver Spring is right outside of Washington, DC. This isn't some isolated little town where murders only happen once a decade, and the police department isn't equipped to conduct a proper investigation. If it was, I might be able to give LE a bit of a break here.

To me, there are a lot of racist elements in this crime. A young African-American male hanging from a tree screams murder and racism. I was surprised and sickened to hear about all the white supremacist groups in the area. Who reported the car full of black males? Was this ever substantiated? Again, to me, this seems like an attempt at stereotyping and cover-up.

Mark F's statement that he "needs to unload" is the thing that really leads me to believe that there was a big coverup here. I'm assuming Mark was a native English speaker. This is an idiomatic expression that a non-native speaker would most likely not use. The use of this phrase indicates that Mark was keeping a secret and had to talk about it. "I need to vent" is what someone would say if they were frustrated and angry, but not keeping a secret. "I need to unload" is similar to "I need to get something off my chest", although the second phrase indicates confession, while the first indicates the speaker has been carrying secret or unspeakable information around and can't psychologically deal with the burden. Who is this Mark Findlay? I normally never ask this question, but I think it matters in this case: what was his racial background? There was a mention earlier that he was involved with drugs. Did Keith actually hang around him on a regular basis/in the time leading up to his death? I cannot believe that Keith's friends have never come forward or offered condolences to his family. That is so very suspicious, IMO. They should have been interviewed.

Who was the one who mentioned the guys in the car? How did they know this? Were those men ever found? I'd be very surprised if they actually existed. If this wasn't a racist hate crime, then the only other explanation (IMO) is that it was staged to look that way.

Lastly, I cannot believe that they embalmed him without the family's consent. Embalming is not something that is done in every culture and religious group. It also costs extra money. I think this was ordered in an attempt to cover something up. Too bad they were too stupid to know that embalming him wouldn't hide all evidence.

I agree with all of this, great post!

 

[pdxmama]

The Washington Post article had a comment that stated that Keith had been actively dating prior to his death; not necessarily dating one person, but going on dates. There was also a mention in the comments about a four pack of wine coolers. I wonder if he was planning to meet someone in the woods that day? If the police were doing their jobs properly, once they noticed it wasn't a suicide (again-if they were doing their jobs correctly) they should have investigated the house from where the phone call was made. Did Claudia ever date Keith? What was Keith's relationship to the occupants of the house?

The comment about him being in the basement is really hinky. Claudia then later said he was in the woods. That basement should have been investigated thoroughly. I wonder if he was invited in, hanging out in the basement, offered a drink, poisoned and then moved. I wonder if the basement mention was a freudian slip by someone who knew more than was reported. Basement and woods are not even similar sounding words. I might understand someone who is stressed out or in fear mixing up basement with garage, living room with kitchen, bedroom with hallway, etc. (as in, these things are all related). Basement and woods have no connection/similar sound/same letters/same number of syllables/proximity/similarity. Know what I mean? There is a huge difference between finding a body in one's basement and happening to come upon a body in the woods while one is walking their dog. How on earth could someone say something initially and then change it to something so different later on? It's not logical and it is highly suspicious.

What type of a dog did Claudia have? I looked at those pictures of the woods. That's a pretty densely forested area. I have a pomeranian. I also have woods in my neighborhood. I've never seen anyone walking their dogs in the woods, and my dog never wants to even try to go into the woods. I might be able to understand a person in the woods with a hunting dog, but a woman with a non-sporting dog walking through those woods on her own seems strange to me.

Why did Alan try to sue over his image in the photos? Why would anyone do this, especially if the body is there due to suicide? I might be able to understand freaking out over being photographed with someone who was the victim of a serial killer or gang retaliation, but not a suicide. Very odd, IMO.

I wonder if the house has ever been searched. If the original owners are no longer living there, the new owners might consent to allowing someone into the basement. I think that basement should have been searched.

These are all such great questions. I think that one of the strangest things about this case is that there are so many unanswered questions and I can't find one article, statement, comment, blog post, etc. that tries to explain any of it. Usually, when there is a case with so many questions, someone in authority at least attempts to explain or address some of those questions.

The only thing I've seen anyone in authority say in response to questions is that the investigation is over and the family is in denial. This could all be cleared up with official answers to some questions but as it stands, I think this is the most ridiculous and obvious murder and cover-up.

 

[Lera213]

: Yes the photo's are the copies that were in the police files. Someone took the negatives from the police department had them developed put the negative's back and gave the developed photo's to the family.

Well if someone took the photo neg from the police files then there is someone on the inside that was trying to inform the family to dig deeper or give a hint that maybe LE is involved. Or it could have been a cop, and is taunting the family but I believe in my own personal opinion that it is the first.

 

[Lera213]

I personally don't believe this was a suicide. Just a few thoughts, and please feel free to disagree if this is off the wall. Two things stand out in my mind:

1. Different clothing - I think someone mentioned the theory that perhaps he was partying, put on different clothes to conceal who he was partying with and then things went wrong and he died somehow, etc. My problem with this is that you would assume that the people he was partying with would dispose of his clothing to hide evidence rather than leaving them or otherwise giving them to LE. The other part to that is, why didn't LE give the family BOTH sets of clothing? How would they know that the ones he was wearing WEREN'T his and that the ones he wasn't wearing (possibly found at the scene?) were? To me this indicates that someone within LE was involved in setting up the "suicide" scene.

2. The photos - I think I saw comments on one of the YouTube videos that someone indicated that they felt the photos were left on the family's doorstep as a taunt because they "got away with it" essentially. While this is possible, isn't it also possible that someone within LE knows what happened and feels guilty? Perhaps they are trying to discreetly give the family what they need to learn what really happened? Perhaps it is a deep enough cover up that if someone within LE that wanted to help the Warrens was noticed, they might also disappear. It is evident that there are a number of people who know something and aren't saying anything or are now dead.

This whole thing sounds sketchy to me. While I can sort of see the idea that maybe he was secretly partying and ODed somewhere and his companions tried to make it look like a suicide, there are way too many instances of LE taking strange and unusual measures in the case - even before informing Keith's mother about what happened. Choosing a funeral home, having the body taken care of, cutting down the tree then later "losing" it in a fire, only sending Keith's actual clothing (which would be less likely to alert the family that something is amiss and proves that LE somehow knew which garments Keith ACTUALLY wore), I don't know there's just too much there to discount the idea that LE is involved.

If someone on the inside (le) made copies of those photo's to inform the family that there is a cover up...I think that he/she that sent those copies was trying to not only say a cover up but a cover up of the highest kind. Also maybe the reason for the photo's is because the person is saying the EVIDENCE is in the photo somewhere?

 

[Lera213]

I got this photo from the Keith Warren blogsite and cropped it down so that it isn't as graphic. You can clearly see that 1. His feet are touching the ground and while his butt is in the air, he is in a somewhat seated position and 2. He has on white tennis shoes. His mother claims she was given boots that he had supposedly been wearing and that he always wore boots. I believe that info was discussed earlier and is also on the blogsite.

The "L" shape the body is in to me indicates that rigor set in as someone was carrying him over their shoulder, or he slumped over a table chair and was there for hours. This looks like to me he was carried after death over someone's shoulder, put down on the ground, the ropes were put into place on the tree's then he was hoisted up. By the time all this took place rigor set in. Maybe the killer had to go and find ropes. Where are the ropes? Are they missing or in evidence still? Perhaps fibers in the rope can be a lead?

 

[Lera213]

KW hand positioning made me think if he had grabbed on to someone's shirt and his grip was weak or something like that.

 

[pdxmama]

The "L" shape the body is in to me indicates that rigor set in as someone was carrying him over their shoulder, or he slumped over a table chair and was there for hours. This looks like to me he was carried after death over someone's shoulder, put down on the ground, the ropes were put into place on the tree's then he was hoisted up. By the time all this took place rigor set in. Maybe the killer had to go and find ropes. Where are the ropes? Are they missing or in evidence still? Perhaps fibers in the rope can be a lead?

BBM - That's a really interesting theory. I also thought that maybe two people were carrying him, one holding his arms and one his feet. The weight of his body could cause lit to sag in the middle while being carried which could also account for the bend.

Anyone know offhand how long it takes for rigor mortis to set in? I think it was the private autopsy that the family had done where it was stated that rigor had set in before he was hung up in the tree. I wonder if he was in the basement of the house (that would coincide with what Claudia said) and was laid over something or hidden somewhere that would have caused his body to have been folded up until they got him out of the house and staged his suicide.

 

[clueless]

I think the only way this case is going to really get anywhere is if a private investigator does some digging under cover and talks to the people involved.... the girl that claimed to have found the body, the guys at the house with her, people at the party, Keith's friends, people involved in law enforcement and anyone else who will talk.

I would really like to know more about the shirtless guy in the photo. How weird is that??? Is it just me, or do the police almost never take pics of bystanders in crime scene photos...unless they think a bystander might be involved and they want to document that....

 

[pdxmama]

I think the only way this case is going to really get anywhere is if a private investigator does some digging under cover and talks to the people involved.... the girl that claimed to have found the body, the guys at the house with her, people at the party, Keith's friends, people involved in law enforcement and anyone else who will talk.

I would really like to know more about the shirtless guy in the photo. How weird is that??? Is it just me, or do the police almost never take pics of bystanders in crime scene photos...unless they think a bystander might be involved and they want to document that....

I think your right clueless which is a bummer because it seems to me that us WS'ers are pretty helpless to move this case along. It would be great if the family or someone that knows them could come back and talk to us.

And, yeah, the shirtless guy in the photo is super weird. I have no idea why he would be in a crime scene photo. This may just be the weirdest case I've encountered here on WS and that's sayin' somethin'.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Sorry ive just cut and pasted this from yahoo answers but theyre all saying th same...

Rigor mortis starts about three hours after death; it reaches its maximum after about 12 hours. It gradually dissipates over the next 72 hours or so.

Post-mortem body temperature varies greatly with the ambient temperature. However, it does NOT drop to "cold" in 30 minutes. I would say he had been dead at least a few hours by the time you arrived.

 

[21merc7]

Have you contacted here:

National Center for Analysis of Violent Crimes
Link:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cirg/investigations-and-operations-support/

If they cannot help, they can at least get you to a proper contact.

Would the Findley boy's family be willing to pursue also?

I definitely think this should be reviewed by a Federal Agency to see if anything can be pursued.

 

[marie-chantal]

Was Mark Findley's case ever solved? Maybe if both of the families got together, they could put pressure on someone to get this case investigated properly. Personally, I'd start with the basement at Claudia's house. So much time has passed, but due to Claudia's mention of the basement, I have a feeling that Keith was in that basement at some point in time.

The four pack of wine coolers are something that definitely stood out to me. Did Claudia and Keith ever date? It kind of sounds like Keith had those wine coolers with him because he was going to hang out with a girl somewhere.

I'd also like to know exactly who was in that house at the time the "suicide" report was made. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the people in that house was involved in a white supremacist group.

 

[pdxmama]

Was Mark Findley's case ever solved? Maybe if both of the families got together, they could put pressure on someone to get this case investigated properly. Personally, I'd start with the basement at Claudia's house. So much time has passed, but due to Claudia's mention of the basement, I have a feeling that Keith was in that basement at some point in time.

The four pack of wine coolers are something that definitely stood out to me. Did Claudia and Keith ever date? It kind of sounds like Keith had those wine coolers with him because he was going to hang out with a girl somewhere.

I'd also like to know exactly who was in that house at the time the "suicide" report was made. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the people in that house was involved in a white supremacist group.

I agree with this whole post. Got any good ideas to how to move this forward without the family? They don't seem to be posting or even reading here anymore and there have been some great suggestions. I would love to figure out a way to bring some attention to this case but I would really like the family to be involved.

 

[marie-chantal]

I agree with this whole post. Got any good ideas to how to move this forward without the family? They don't seem to be posting or even reading here anymore and there have been some great suggestions. I would love to figure out a way to bring some attention to this case but I would really like the family to be involved.

Sadly, I have no clue how to do this without the family's involvement. If there was some evidence that had been newly discovered, then perhaps we could get more attention.

Do the same people still live in the house from where the phone call was made? If there are new owners, perhaps they'd allow a search of the basement by an investigator (assuming the basement hadn't been remodeled since). I really think that the key to this is that house and the people who were in it the day Keith's body was discovered.

Perhaps if some of Keith's or Mark's friends came forward, it would help things. Based on what I've read in this thread and in the blog, Keith's friends were very quiet after his death. It's very suspicious. My hope is that someone who has been keeping a very dark secret for all these years will finally break and want to talk about what they know; otherwise, I am at a loss for ideas on how to get this case moving again.