GUILTY MD - Korryn Gaines, 23, fatally shot by Baltimore police, 1 Aug 2016

[ohreally]

The difference is that we do not arrest them. They may have weapons, They may be capable of beating you up. These are the very same people out on the street. They can be very angry. We have to learn how to deal with out of control and angry students School is not a picnic. The public has no clue because of privacy issues . Just picture the people on these threads. They are or have been in school.

In our county if a student has a weapon it is mandatory to report it immediately and the RSO comes into the classroom and takes care of the situation. I cannot even imagine a teacher in our district to think of handling even the rumor of a weapon without immediately reporting it for the RSO to handle.

 

[al66pine]

....Watch her here, she is looking for lost/stolen property/documents from her arrest/kidnapping
She was a piece of work. [video=youtube;gs5UpruDXak]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs5UpruDXak[/video]

sbm^ In March when LEO tried to hand her citation form/tix, she said she did not want it, refused to accept it from LEO's extended hand. Later (days? weeks?) trying to locate the purportedly purloined documents, she insisted she needed doc's, had to have them then and there, could not wait until next shift, etc.

IIUC, she wanted to get a hospital discharge report/doc (she said she went to hosp 2 times when she was in jail (for how long,5 days?) and a court doc w appearance dates. First* admittedly, seems LE should have been able to locate them, but also seems she could have obtained those doc's/copies directly from the ct & hosp.

I've been on both sides of situations (not w LE) like that, wanting a form/doc/service from a city or state facility and also as an employee telling patron it's not available ATM & bearing bad news that supervisor will not come out in person. Frustrating from either angle. JM2cts.


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* Seems if LE had them when she was released she would have noticed their absence & requested them then. Happily from personal exp, IDK about that procedure and might be a little unfocused if I had been in jail.

 

[al66pine]

.... Why would LEOs document all that in some kind of "double secret probation" file on her? ....
The societal expectation for everyone is polite, respectful, and law-abiding. KG failed all three, and was homicidal, as well....

^sbm. On the lighter side, K_Z, some here may henceforth refer to you as Dean Wormer, for your Animal House allusion.

"The societal expectation for everyone is polite, respectful, and law-abiding. KG failed all three, and was homicidal, as well..."
In all seriousness, maybe suicidal too? IDK. Jm2cts.

 

[katydid23]

If someone points a loaded shotgun at me, at close range, and threatens to kill me, I HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT to defend myself, even with lethal force if necessary. As a civilian, no one expects me to make 'de-escalation' my priority at that point. Self defense is my highest priority and is allowed in that critical situation.

So why do we expect cops not to have the same rights to self defense? Why do we expect them to put up with someone pointing a loaded shot gun at them, threatening to kill them, and we expect that they should 'deescalate' and walk away, as if that should be their highest priority? I don't think it is at that point. Once someone is threatening lethal force, all bets are off. It is not the officer's responsibility to protect that person wanting to kill them over protecting themselves and others in the vicinity. Just my opinion. :cow:

 

[CoolJ]

If someone points a loaded shotgun at me, at close range, and threatens to kill me, I HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT to defend myself, even with lethal force if necessary. As a civilian, no one expects me to make 'de-escalation' my priority at that point. Self defense is my highest priority and is allowed in that critical situation.

So why do we expect cops not to have the same rights to self defense? Why do we expect them to put up with someone pointing a loaded shot gun at them, threatening to kill them, and we expect that they should 'deescalate' and walk away, as if that should be their highest priority? I don't think it is at that point. Once someone is threatening lethal force, all bets are off. It is not the officer's responsibility to protect that person wanting to kill them over protecting themselves and others in the vicinity. Just my opinion. :cow:

I don't think anyone is advocating that cops don't have the same rights to self defence. I believe what many are trying to express is that using lethal force should be the absolute last resort.
Here is a recent case where a Toronto cop was convicted. Have a look at the comments from the judge in this case. It's all about trust. Trust is the key ingredient in any type of healthy relationship. It is safe to say the relationship between public and LE is not healthy these days. Trust will fix that in a hurry.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...streetcar-shooting-of-18-year-old-sammy-yatim

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I don't think anyone is advocating that cops don't have the same rights to self defence. I believe what many are trying to express is that using lethal force should be the absolute last resort.
Here is a recent case where a Toronto cop was convicted. Have a look at the comments from the judge in this case.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...streetcar-shooting-of-18-year-old-sammy-yatim

How do you think this case could have ended any differently? It's obvious she was not going to comply.

 

[human]

Are you saying, active listening (btw, they "listened" for like 7 hours) could've possibly made a difference in this situation. She was hell bent on them leaving, or going to battle. She got the battle. She lost the battle.
Even during her traffic stop in March she said y'all aren't kidnapping me. Be ready to use your firearm. I'll leave in a body bag.
Last Monday, she said leave or I'll shoot you. She was not ever going to "let them win".

Do you really (honestly?) think any amount of listening was going to make her stand up, put the gun down, and go peacefully?

Come on!

Seriously, responding to people and acknowledging them works, It takes the fight out of them.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

She was acting irrational, was armed, and had a 5 year old in her lap/by her side. No way were those cops just going to walk away.
They tried for hours to get her to comply. She threatened them and pointed a gun at them.
What exactly were they supposed to do?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Seriously, responding to people and acknowledging them works, It takes the fight out of them.

Are you saying they spent 7 hours not responding to her? Not acknowledging her?
GMAB.

The only thing that was going to take the fight out of her was that body bag she had been asking for since March.

There was no reasoning with her. That's clear from her videos.

 

[human]

In our county if a student has a weapon it is mandatory to report it immediately and the RSO comes into the classroom and takes care of the situation. I cannot even imagine a teacher in our district to think of handling even the rumor of a weapon without immediately reporting it for the RSO to handle.

Um, how does the teacher report to the police? First, the teacher must make the situation so that she can do something. There are officers trained to,stop,suicides. They learn the techniques.

 

[katydid23]

Seriously, responding to people and acknowledging them works, It takes the fight out of them.

No, not always. They had her parents come down and try and talk her out of it. That didn't take the fight out of her. Some people will not back down ever.

 

[human]

Are you saying they spent 7 hours not responding to her? Not acknowledging her?
GMAB.

The only thing that was going to take the fight out of her was that body bag she had been asking for since March.

There was no reasoning with her. That's clear from her videos.

They started out hostile by kicking in the door. That would get anyone uptight.

 

[human]

No, not always. They had her parents come down and try and talk her out of it. That didn't take the fight out of her. Some people will not back down ever.

Things had gone too far at that point. They had gotten ridiculous.

LE came in on a situation where there were two little children. They.need training on howmto handle these things, probably a different scenario than going into the home.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

They started out hostile by kicking in the door. That would get anyone uptight.

Maybe it's because she wouldn't open it. Are they supposed to let the criminals call the shots. That's not a society I want to live in.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think anyone is advocating that cops don't have the same rights to self defence. I believe what many are trying to express is that using lethal force should be the absolute last resort.
Here is a recent case where a Toronto cop was convicted. Have a look at the comments from the judge in this case. It's all about trust. Trust is the key ingredient in any type of healthy relationship. It is safe to say the relationship between public and LE is not healthy these days. Trust will fix that in a hurry.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...streetcar-shooting-of-18-year-old-sammy-yatim

Why should it be the absolute last resort though? If someone is pointing a loaded shotgun at you and saying they are going to kill you, why is saving their life the absolute highest priority of all? Aren't there OTHER priorities at that point that may be higher? Like protecting the public and the other officers and oneself? Maybe shooting the perp is the best option at that time considering the other risks at hand.

 

[human]

She was acting irrational, was armed, and had a 5 year old in her lap/by her side. No way were those cops just going to walk away.
They tried for hours to get her to comply. She threatened them and pointed a gun at them.
What exactly were they supposed to do?

They should have not gone to the home where there are two young children . There should have been info on what she is like. That is only prudent.

 

[human]

Why should it be the absolute last resort though? If someone is pointing a loaded shotgun at you and saying they are going to kill you, why is saving their life the absolute highest priority of all? Aren't there OTHER priorities at that point that may be higher? Like protecting the public and the other officers and oneself? Maybe shooting the perp is the best option at that time considering the other risks at hand.

Ifsomeone is pointing a loaded gun at you, it is amazing that you would live

 

[katydid23]

Things had gone too far at that point. They had gotten ridiculous.

LE came in on a situation where there were two little children. They.need training on howmto handle these things, probably a different scenario than going into the home.

I think it ended the only way it could have because she herself pushed it too far. The cops were very patient but it can only go for so long until they needed to end it.

 

[human]

Maybe it's because she wouldn't open it. Are they supposed to let the criminals call the shots. That's not a society I want to live in.

What was her major crime? He had more issues but he could have been arrested at another time. Not where there are young children.

 

[katydid23]

Ifsomeone is pointing a loaded gun at you, it is amazing that you would live

Exactly. I agree. It would demand action on my part to make sure I would stay alive.