Deceased/Not Found MD - Sarah, 3, & Jacob Hoggle, 2, Clarksburg, 9 Sept 2014 *Arrest*

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KimBeq said:
please someone who is proficient in maps , please contact me. the fathers side is asking. please
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I wish I could do it but I don't have the skills. I am bumping in hopes more websleuthers will read here
 
KimBeq said:
Hello - I need to speak with a Mod, I live in the area and my neighbor and I volunteered in the search this weekend and she actually knows the Dads friend and has been asked to make a map with the POI, some of which have not been released via MSM, and we need to know how to proceed. I've been a member and reading here for a while but I am not familiar with the rules although I have seen many people make the kind of maps the family would like to see. Could a Moderator please PM me or contact me? Thank you.
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If you hit the little ! triangle on the bottom left of your post that will alert a mod.
 
liveshere said:
Thank you. You summed up my feelings as well. And how many 2-year-olds do you know who have sleepovers at a friend's house, especially on the spur of the moment with no planning? The children's dad was concerned enough to call 911 when Catherine and the kids were gone, but then hung up when she came back with the daycare trial story? These questions bother me, but I remind myself, LE is not sharing everything for us. And just like you, I'm gut wrenched for the family so I'm not trying to point fingers. I just don't understand some of the things that happened over that very long period of time before the kids were reported missing, and since those hours were so critical, it hurts.
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BBM. That's interesting. I'm curious about the Dad's reason he called 911. What exactly was he going to report?
 
Lalasmooch said:
This is such an awful case. For everyone involved. I so hope these kids are found soon.

There are a couple of parts in this story that don't make sense to me. In no way do I mean to blame the family here, because I couldn't even begin to comprehend the suffering they must be going through. But the version of events over the two days these kids went missing does not add up with her husbands admission that she wasn't allowed to be alone with the children. I feel like there were some big alarm bells throughout these 2 days and I can't help but wonder why the people around her, knowing her history and her issues with mental illness, didn't start questioning things sooner?

Her father picked up her and the kids and took them back to his home. She then takes Jacob to 'get pizza' in her dad's car and they allow this despite her not being allowed around the children alone?

3 HOURS goes by. It's taken 3 HOURS for Catherine to get a pizza and return home. Now if I were the parents - knowing I'd just done the wrong thing by allowing her to take Jacob along by herself - I would be seriously freaking out? Yet I have to assume they aren't concerned because...

When she finally does return home 3 hours later she doesn't have the child nor a pizza. She explains she's made a sudden decision to visit a friends home instead and then leave Jacob there. Again, despite Catherine not being allowed unsupervised contact with her children AND having been gone for 3 HOURS her parents aren't concerned by this turn of events and don't check the story out with the "friend".

So Catherine heads home with Sarah. She puts her to bed then goes to bed herself. From what I've read we aren't clear on whether the husband was home when she arrived or what time he arrived home that night. I'm going to assume he wasn't home when they arrived, didn't get home until late, didn't check in on the kids and just went to bed. He was still asleep in the morning when Catherine got up and left the house with Sarah. He was none the wiser that Jacob wasn't in the house.

When he does awake neither of the kids are there and Cathrine explains that they are at a trial day at a daycare center. This in itself is odd to me. Something thing like putting your children into daycare is a decision you usually make over time. And one that your children's father does know about prior. You don't just wake up one morning and think 'hey I might put my children into the first daycare center I can find this morning'. This would be an odd thing for someone who's mentally stable to do... So if someone with a mental illness suddenly comes up with it how do you not question that?? Or check it out for yourself?

The only way I can think of to explain this behavior from the family is this. Catherine was actually fully functioning well as a mother to her children and was indeed left to care for them on her own quite regularly as any mum is. Her state of mind had - up until Jacobs disappearance - been good enough that her husband and parents didn't feel the need to question her on the whereabouts of either child immediately following her returning without them. I am no expert on mental illness or paranoid schizophrenia so I ask the following genuinely wanting to understand, not because I'm trying to cast doubt.

If she has had an episode and taken the children and either hid them or god forbid done the worst in a paranoid or delusional state that has spanned a week or more? Going from the time she took Jacob, then Sarah and finally when she herself took off and then spent days wandering around aimlessly and sleeping in random buildings. If that is the case how did nobody else in that time notice the psychotic episode happening? Is it something that the person can consciously hide if they need to? I mean she even went to a doctors appointment hours after leaving the Sarah and even they didn't pick up on the fact something was off? If something in her mind had freaked her out enough for her to take her children away surely some of that fear would be seen by the parents, husband or doctors during the 24 hour period all of this happened in?

Sorry for the novel, I just can't get past the fact that she's managed to lose the two children on separate occasions within hours and nobody else finds out something is amiss until almost a full 24 hours later. Especially given that the people around her KNOW she's mentally ill. I am still hoping and praying that these kids are somewhere safe. And that Catherine is able to give LE some answers soon.
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I agree. Have there been any media interviews with her parents? The details are convoluted but all point to a premeditated parental kidnapping. Hoggle had to get them away from the father individually because he lived in the home. I think she had help planning this. It reminds me very much of the disappearance of the three Skelton boys several years ago. That father is now in jail but he insisted he gave the children to some religious group to protect them from their abusive mother. The children have never been found.

JMO
 
This really bothers me that the mother has still said nothing about her children.
 
Hopefully now that Catherine has been moved to the jessup facility she will start to be medicated and the truth will come out. Where are Sarah and Jacob?
 
Hippiemomof5 said:
You think her parents helped hide them?
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I believe what the commenter means is that the mother essentially kidnapped them and gave them to someone who was helping her commit the crime. It would be called a parental kidnapping since she is their mother, not because she gave the kids to her parents.

It's a good theory but I think it's more likely that she killed them. Even if someone had helped her, thinking she was a battered wife or in danger, by now they should know it wasn't true.
 
Thanks for sharing the interview with TT liveshare. He sounds very confident that the kids are alive and someone is hiding them... But who would do that for Catherine?? If that is the case I'm worried that someone with sinister motives could have manipulated her into thinking handing them over was the best thing, or knowing her mental state maybe fed her things that would trigger her paranoia. Could it be another patient she's met during her treatment?? She doesn't have a prior record does she??

I also got the feeling through the interview that Troy is indeed the person who has set the rules about CH not being allowed alone w. Kids and that her parents don't/didn't agree with it and would lax the restrictions when they were with them. I have to say my head and my gut are increasingly getting the vibe that this was planned. Right down to Catherine going to her parents as soon as Troy left for work, maybe knowing that they would let her slip out with Jacob and not make a fuss. They even let her drive their car without a licence just to do something as trivial as get pizza? I don't mean to say what's happened is their fault, or that they knew it was coming because I'm sure they didn't and are now punishing themselves endlessly. But working towards solving the mystery of how CH pulled this off, If her parents were maybe in denial somewhat about the severity of her condition or there was ongoing disagreement between them and TT about the best way to manage it that could explain how she was able to get through the cracks here and take both those kids somewhere.
 
MzOpinion8d said:
I believe what the commenter means is that the mother essentially kidnapped them and gave them to someone who was helping her commit the crime. It would be called a parental kidnapping since she is their mother, not because she gave the kids to her parents.

It's a good theory but I think it's more likely that she killed them. Even if someone had helped her, thinking she was a battered wife or in danger, by now they should know it wasn't true.
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She may believe she and the children were in danger. We don't know what is in her mind.
 
Lalasmooch said:
Thanks for sharing the interview with TT liveshare. He sounds very confident that the kids are alive and someone is hiding them... But who would do that for Catherine?? If that is the case I'm worried that someone with sinister motives could have manipulated her into thinking handing them over was the best thing, or knowing her mental state maybe fed her things that would trigger her paranoia. Could it be another patient she's met during her treatment?? She doesn't have a prior record does she??

I also got the feeling through the interview that Troy is indeed the person who has set the rules about CH not being allowed alone w. Kids and that her parents don't/didn't agree with it and would lax the restrictions when they were with them. I have to say my head and my gut are increasingly getting the vibe that this was planned. Right down to Catherine going to her parents as soon as Troy left for work, maybe knowing that they would let her slip out with Jacob and not make a fuss. They even let her drive their car without a licence just to do something as trivial as get pizza? I don't mean to say what's happened is their fault, or that they knew it was coming because I'm sure they didn't and are now punishing themselves endlessly. But working towards solving the mystery of how CH pulled this off, If her parents were maybe in denial somewhat about the severity of her condition or there was ongoing disagreement between them and TT about the best way to manage it that could explain how she was able to get through the cracks here and take both those kids somewhere.
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Have her parents given interviews to the media?
 
MyBelle said:
Have her parents given interviews to the media?
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Not that I have seen. Her father did give a statement when Catherine was missing and I think he may have took a few questions, one of them being that nothing appeared wrong and it seemed like she was on her meds prior to this. The gist of that was him crying and telling her to come home. I haven't seen anything else.
 
liveshere said:
Not that I have seen. Her father did give a statement when Catherine was missing and I think he may have took a few questions, one of them being that nothing appeared wrong and it seemed like she was on her meds prior to this. The gist of that was him crying and telling her to come home. I haven't seen anything else.
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This is one strange case. Her dad doesn't think she was off her meds yet her husband claims she wasn't supposed to be alone with the children yet her folks let her take their car to go get a pizza and visit friends. Who was supposed to be with her and the little ones when her husband went to work?
 
Ugh! This case is just torture. I'm sure it's worse for the family, but I can't get these kiddos off my mind!
 
MyBelle said:
This is one strange case. Her dad doesn't think she was off her meds yet her husband claims she wasn't supposed to be alone with the children yet her folks let her take their car to go get a pizza and visit friends. Who was supposed to be with her and the little ones when her husband went to work?
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Additionally recent msm indicated she did not have a valid/active drivers license and was not supposed to drive.

I hope they are doing testing on grandpa's vehicle similiarly to the one done on Timmy Pitzen's moms car.
 
marylandmissing said:
Doubt this...Trash in Clarksburg is picked up Tuesday...The first kid disappeared sometime Sunday...She was gone 3 hours in a vehicle...Second one disappeared the next morning...She also had a vehicle for a couple hours...She went 58 miles in the vehicle...
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Hi, I missed this. Is there confirmation that she went 58 miles in the vehicle? And is that RT or each way?
 
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