Deceased/Not Found MD - Sarah, 3, & Jacob Hoggle, 2, Clarksburg, 9 Sept 2014 *Arrest*

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I’m not buying the mentally incapacitated piece. I believe she has diagnoses, but she knows right from wrong and knows what happened, along with her parents. I’d bet the farm that even with charges dropped this song and dance will continue with her. I agree with other assertions that this is all a distraction somehow...MOO
 
If she is this incapacitated now, why wasn’t she in a mental hospital years before she had the chance to harm her children?

She actually was (Sheppard Pratt). The mental illness - schizophrenia, schizoaffective, whatever you want to call the disorder - didn't really start to manifest until after she had Sarah (acc. to Troy and family). We (the public) don't really know a whole lot about the period before Sarah and Jacob went missing, in terms of what specific behaviors were concerning or irresponsible. All we know is that the year prior to the children's disappearances, she was committed to Sheppard Pratt because she claimed to be hearing voices and just other paranoid things. And by his own admission, Troy Turner was no longer in a relationship with Catherine Hoggle at the time of Jacob's birth in 2012. I think by that point he knew something was wrong with her but was ill-equipped to handle it.

Up until the time the kids disappeared, Catherine was platonically living in the apartment with him and the kids, due to the fact that neither of her parents (they are divorced) wanted her to move back in with either of them. There's a lot about her family's dynamic that seems "off" to me, especially when I watched the segment with Lindsey Hoggle saying her daughter had only informed her that she was having a child (the eldest), after giving birth to him (neither Lindsey nor the rest of her family apparently knew that Catherine was pregnant at all with the first child). Anyway, at the time they all seem to have agreed, informally, that Catherine wasn't in a position to have custody. No judge ordered anything and no one went to court to try to legally establish custody. They handled things privately.

That's why they were all taking turns watching the kids and getting babysitters to come over when either the Hoggles or Troy's family weren't able to watch them. In my personal opinion, her parents and the state dropped the ball on this one. I guess the support system (housing, rehabilitation, personal help) for adults living with a serious mental illness must be cruddy in Montgomery County. Her parents must have known their daughter was struggling - she had just come out of residential treatment, wasn't employed, and didn't have a place to live besides under her ex's roof... How did they not step in and help her get back on her feet, stay on her meds, look for work and eventually, obtain partial custody?

Wouldn't that be the logical course of action to take, rather than to basically force her ex / kids' father to shoulder all that responsibility himself? The way I see it, that man was having to take care of 4 "children" incl. an adult who wasn't self-sufficient enough to look after herself, much less the kids. I don't want to judge here, but I think it's borderline inappropriate, what went on and what Troy Turner had to endure without any outside support. It must have felt to him like a weird set-up, to say the least, but he had a good heart and wanted to do the "right thing"... and he sure paid for it.
 
If she is this incapacitated now, why wasn’t she in a mental hospital years before she had the chance to harm her children?

She actually was (Sheppard Pratt). The mental illness - schizophrenia, schizoaffective, whatever you want to call the disorder - didn't really start to manifest until after she had Sarah (acc. to Troy and family). We (the public) don't really know a whole lot about the period before Sarah and Jacob went missing, in terms of what specific behaviors were concerning or irresponsible. All we know is that the year prior to the children's disappearances, she was committed to Sheppard Pratt because she claimed to be hearing voices and just other paranoid things. And by his own admission, Troy Turner was no longer in a relationship with Catherine Hoggle at the time of Jacob's birth in 2012. I think by that point he knew something was wrong with her but was ill-equipped to handle it.

Up until the time the kids disappeared, Catherine was platonically living in the apartment with him and the kids, due to the fact that neither of her parents (they are divorced) wanted her to move back in with either of them. There's a lot about her family's dynamic that seems "off" to me, especially when I watched the segment with Lindsey Hoggle saying her daughter had only informed her that she was having a child (the eldest), after giving birth to him (neither Lindsey nor the rest of her family apparently knew that Catherine was pregnant at all with the first child). Anyway, at the time they all seem to have agreed, informally, that Catherine wasn't in a position to have custody. No judge ordered anything and no one went to court to try to legally establish custody. They handled things privately.

That's why they were all taking turns watching the kids and getting babysitters to come over when either the Hoggles or Troy's family weren't able to watch them. In my personal opinion, her parents and the state dropped the ball on this one. I guess the support system (housing, rehabilitation, personal help) for adults living with a serious mental illness must be cruddy in Montgomery County. Her parents must have known their daughter was struggling - she had just come out of residential treatment, wasn't employed, and didn't have a place to live besides under her ex's roof... How did they not step in and help her get back on her feet, stay on her meds, look for work and eventually, obtain partial custody?

Wouldn't that be the logical course of action to take, rather than to basically force her ex / kids' father to shoulder all that responsibility himself? The way I see it, that man was having to take care of 4 "children" incl. an adult who wasn't self-sufficient enough to look after herself, much less the kids. I don't want to judge here, but I think it's borderline inappropriate, what went on and what Troy Turner had to endure without any outside support. It must have felt to him like a weird set-up, to say the least, but he had a good heart and wanted to do the "right thing"... and he sure paid for it.
 
@fox5dc
also talked with Catherine Hoggle’s attorney, David Felsen today. We discussed the statute he will argue tomorrow. I asked how this is justice for Sarah & Jacob? Felsen answers
https://twitter.com/RamirezReports/status/1229531799199592450?s=20

Then 3yo Sarah & 2yo Jacob were never found. Their father, Troy Turner, is furious Hoggle could be released w/out ever having to answer in court what happened to their kids. He’s also concerned for their other child. I asked Turner what keeps him going ...

Stephanie Ramirez on Twitter

Catherine Hoggle’s attorney tells
@fox5dc
if the judge decides to dismiss felony charges against Hoggle on Tuesday, he does not expect her to be immediately released.
 
Have arrived here in Rockville, for 130 status hearing, for Catherine Hoggle, who is charged with the murders of her young children, who vanished in 2014. Catherine Hoggle was the last person to see them. But, this hearing will be very different....

Neal Augenstein on Twitter
 
Hoggle’s defense attorney, David Felsen will argue that the murder counts against Catherine Hoggle must be dropped, because Maryland law dictates felony counts must be dismissed in a defendant has been found incompetent for 5 years.

Neal Augenstein on Twitter

Felsen says the 5 year anniversary from when Hoggle was first ruled incompetent was in January 2020. But prosecutors say that 5-year-clock didn’t start running until 3 years ago, in 2017, when Hoggle was indicted for the murders. She had initially been charged w misdemeanors.

Neal Augenstein on Twitter

In not-for-attribution discussions with lawyers on both sides of the case, there does not seem to be an identical case in Maryland — where a defendant has had charges upgraded to felonies, after initially being charged with misdemeanors. Since 2015, in every single status hearing

Neal Augenstein on Twitter

...doctors from Clifton T. Perkins Hospital, where Hoggle is being treated and tested, have found her incompetent to stand trial. She’s been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. But the doctors at Perkins, as well as the psychiatrist hired by prosecutors have said...

Neal Augenstein on Twitter

Hoggle COULD likely be restored to competency. In its previous arguments, prosecutors have said doctors have said she was CLOSE to being able to assist in her own defense, but her lawyer says the 5-year-deadline is the law, and it would be unfair to hold her without trial.

Neal Augenstein on Twitter
 
The children’s father, Troy Turner, will likely get a chance to address Circuit Court Judge Robert Greenberg, before the judge makes the decision. Turner has said Sarah and Jacob have never had a voice in the proceedings, and he wants to speak on their behalf.

Neal Augenstein on Twitter

Even if the judge decides to drop the murder counts, there is next-to-zero chance she will walk out of the courthouse today, since Hoggle’s children are still missing. Prosecutors would appeal, and the judge would no doubt order Hoggle civilly committed at Perkins.

Neal Augenstein on Twitter
 
And, prosecutors could REcharge Hoggle with murder. Even though a civil commitment could have Hoggle in Perkins for decades, without a criminal charge, prosecutors (and Turner) would have less say, and ability to monitor her. Turner has said he is concerned for his older....

Neal Augenstein on Twitter

...actually, oldest child, who he also had with Hoggle. Turner believes Hoggle intended to harm the oldest child, who has never been identified in court.

Neal Augenstein on Twitter

The hearing begins at 1:30, and should run about an hour. There’s no tweeting in the courtroom, so I’ll update you as soon as I can. The mighty @jmooreDC will be writing up a new story as I tweet, and of course you’ll hear what happens immediately on 1035FM. Be in touch.

Neal Augenstein on Twitter
 
Now:
Troy Turner, family & supporters are outside of Montgomery County Circut Court. They’re gathering for a prayer vigil in support of his missing children ahead of the 1:30p competency hearing, where Catherine Hoggle’s attorney will argue to drop murder charges.
@fox5dc

(Video)

Stephanie Ramirez on Twitter

*Circuit Court

Stephanie Ramirez on Twitter
 
BREAKING: Montgomery County Circuit Court Judge Robert Greenberg is done hearing arguments whether Catherine Hoggle’s murder counts should be dropped because of 5 year deadline. Judge says he will issue a written opinion, saying this is “a momentous decision.”

Neal Augenstein on Twitter
 
Judge Greenberg asked lawyers for both sides if anything would preclude him from NOT dismissing case because of 5 year deadline, but instead ordering her held civilly. Prosecutors said that was illogical, defense said she couldn’t be held under THIS case. Judge isn’t so sure.

Neal Augenstein on Twitter
 
Montgomery County State’s Atty John McCarthy said “restorability is not a consensus issue,” and that the 5 year deadline assumes “presumptive non-restorability.” McCarthy said doctors should be allowed to continue to treat her, and even suggested taking her off all medicines.

Neal Augenstein on Twitter
 
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