Deceased/Not Found MD - Sarah, 3, & Jacob Hoggle, 2, Clarksburg, 9 Sept 2014 *Arrest*

[Hippiemomof5]

It seems odd to me that the older child wasn't "hidden," thank God, but still it seems odd to me. In an altered, paranoid state, why did she feel that child was safer than the others?

Three children five and under is a lot of stress for any mother, I'd imagine it may have been even more so for Catherine.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Excellent map, thank you!
I can see now why they are searching Seneca Creek Park, it's 11.19 miles from the house.
I remember Tim Miller saying that nearly all missing persons, that are found, are found within 12 miles of where they were last seen.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ll=39.107186,-77.289934&spn=0.02381,0.039439&t=m&z=15&vpsrc=6&iwloc=lyrftr:m,9428169044922000221,39.104089,-77.29178&msa=0&msid=214263013344031506199.000502bef4c34f1d48a71

A map of known locations. FWIW. Been a long time since I've done a map.

 

[~Lyric~]

~ Praying ~

 

[razzledazzle]

It seems odd to me that the older child wasn't "hidden," thank God, but still it seems odd to me. In an altered, paranoid state, why did she feel that child was safer than the others?

Three children five and under is a lot of stress for any mother, I'd imagine it may have been even more so for Catherine.

The 2 year old was "hidden" first, then the 3 year old, she may have intended to "hide" the oldest when he got home from school that day. JMO

 

[Amster]

How long ago was she diagnosed? If, while even taking the required meds, a person could have a psychotic break...become paranoid...then why was she ever left alone with these babies? Sorry if this offends anyone....just asking.

I have a nephew who was recently diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. He is 27. His parents can't leave him by himself. At any moment, he can go off on paranoid rants. He'll refuse to take his meds, becomes violent, LE called and off he'll go to medical part of jail. Eventually, he gets straightened out and released to go back home. Should he be trusted to care for children? Remember, it's said even with meds, a person can have these paranoid breaks. I suppose as long as someone is with him 24/7 he could care for a child......

 

[HauntsForHope]

Schizophrenia, like any other disease, varies from person to person.

 

[katinva]

I dont know why but I thought the oldest child was older until the above mentioned 3 under 5yrs old.

 

[HauntsForHope]

I'm sorry to hear about your nephew, Amster. Sadly mid twenties is the age for young men who are predisposed to it, to have their first, and usually their worst, episode of their illness. I've noticed that it is particularly strikes very bright students who are otherwise very successful.

 

[liveshere]

nevermind

 

[HauntsForHope]

Does anyone know how cell phone pings work? Could they have pinged her phone to narrow down where she could have been Sunday and Monday? Perhaps that's why they seem focused on Darnestown/Clarksburg?

LE said that she did not have a cell phone with her.



"Hoggle didn’t take her cellphone with her, police said, and there were no records of her using a credit card or being spotted since. “There have been no signs of her,” Pierce said late Tuesday afternoon." http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...1d776c-3828-11e4-8601-97ba88884ffd_story.html

 

[immeal]

Schizophrenia, like any other disease, varies from person to person.

Totally agree. I don't usually pipe in but regardless of anyone's personal experiences and/ or illnesses wouldn't it be fair to say that anyone who is high functioning now or at one time, may not be at another point for whatever reasons? Meaning, I've never had an asthma attack bad enough I had to be intubated but that doesn't mean it can't or will ever happen. There is so much we don't know about the details of the mom's life/health lets keep our minds open.
I love this place because all of us are different yet have one heart in common that wants to help the missing. I'm keeping the children and everyone affected in my prayers as this continues to play out.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Looking at your map I noticed the Potomac River is nearby. I wonder if they had a place by 'The River' they liked to go... someplace familiar to her would make her feel safer. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ll=...344031506199.000502bef4c34f1d48a71&dg=feature


http://www.montgomeryparks.org/PPSD/ParkTrails/trails_MAPS/blockhouse_point.shtm

 

[liveshere]

LE said that she did not have a cell phone with her.



"Hoggle didn’t take her cellphone with her, police said, and there were no records of her using a credit card or being spotted since. “There have been no signs of her,” Pierce said late Tuesday afternoon." http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...1d776c-3828-11e4-8601-97ba88884ffd_story.html

She did not have her phone when she was missing. But did she have it Sunday and Monday morning?

 

[HauntsForHope]

ITA.... This illness is one of the most serious of it's kind and requires lifelong medical care as changes can be swift and far reaching. Paranoia and delusions can make people do things that make no sense to most folks.

Totally agree. I don't usually pipe in but regardless of anyone's personal experiences and/ or illnesses wouldn't it be fair to say that anyone who is high functioning now or at one time, may not be at another point for whatever reasons? Meaning, I've never had an asthma attack bad enough I had to be intubated but that doesn't mean it can't or will ever happen. There is so much we don't know about the details of the mom's life/health lets keep our minds open.
I love this place because all of us are different yet have one heart in common that wants to help the missing. I'm keeping the children and everyone affected in my prayers as this continues to play out.

 

[HauntsForHope]

She did not have her phone when she was missing. But did she have it Sunday and Monday morning?

I'll keep looking but so far, I only know that police have the phone.

"Hoggle told detectives she could call ‘Erin’ if she had her cell phone. Detectives brought her the phone, but Hoggle started deleting records from it so detectives took it back." http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ce5f78-3cd1-11e4-9587-5dafd96295f0_story.html



“At a later part of the interview,” detectives wrote, “the defendant changed her story and stated she would like to take the detectives to the location of the children. The defendant directed the detectives to a playground in Germantown, Montgomery County, Maryland as she was transported there. The defendant then told the detectives that she left her children alone at this playground and she abandoned both children.”

"Earlier Friday, authorities released new surveillance video taken earlier this week of Hoggle. She is seen walking inside an office building before leaving the premises. The video is time stamped on Tuesday at 4:28 a.m. Authorities did not releasing the exact location of the building, but it is located in the area of Germantown Road between the area of Interstate 270 and the Germantown Commons shopping center.

It is believed Hoggle, 27, spent Monday night inside the building. She left behind her phone, credit cards and her driver's license." http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/stor...g-mother-tells-police-children-are-alive-safe

 

[hlegate]

Excellent map, thank you!
I can see now why they are searching Seneca Creek Park, it's 11.19 miles from the house.
I remember Tim Miller saying that nearly all missing persons, that are found, are found within 12 miles of where they were last seen.

Seneca Creek Park is HUGE. Especially when you start coming over into the woods in Gaithersburg. I mean HUGE. it would days, weeks even to get through all the forests.

 

[hlegate]

off my post about seneca creek - there are A LOT of things to do there. She could have easily put the kids there. We go all the time to disc golf....3 courses, each 9 holes over lots of land. In between all the courses is a huge river that runs through with at least 2-3 ponds/lakes nearby. Each christmas they have a lights show and you drive the few miles from the start of the park to the end. They have parks where we always take our kiddo. Lots of things to do and LOTS of area to cover.

 

[blefuscu]

She only had a limited amount of time when Jacob disappeared didn't she? She was away 3 hours or so? (Am I remembering correctly?) so maybe an hour and a half at most in some direction. And she was away over 2 hours when she took Sarah. Again just over an hour to get there and back.

It's awful. Those children could be anywhere and unless she feels safe to give up their whereabouts then I guess the LE really don't have much idea where to look for them.

 

[hlegate]

Seneca Creek and even Rock creek state park is very close to her. There are just a vast amount of forests/farms ....especially if you start in clarksburg and go north/east ...towards howard and carroll county. ALL farms, trees, animals.

 

[Knitty]

"Turner said Hoggle reached out to a group called Citizens Commission on Human Rights, a nonprofit organization that describes itself as exposing human rights violations in the field of mental health, and pushing to enact reforms."

http://patch.com//maryland/germanto...police & fire&utm_campaign=alert#.VBcrKPldVn9

http://www.cchr.org/

The Citizens Commission on Human Rights is a Scientology front group that doesn't believe that mental illness is real and doesn't believe in medication.