MD MD - Sr. Catherine Cesnik, 26, Baltimore, 7 Nov 1969 "The Keepers"

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Watched the entire documentary. Harrowing. Took long breaks between episodes b/c the series became unbearable at times.

Regarding the old man Edgar (Dave, I thought)
--All those toys in the house. He's a pedophile for sure.
--Although he had quick answers for things he expected, like pics of Maskell,
--He got reticent when shown the necklace. You could see him thinking, do they have anything on me?

I wish they had someone with a psychology background handling the questions with him. He's obviously not all there (or perhaps he's toying with us). I felt like the interviewers gave too much away in their questioning, preparing him to deny right away. Someone equipped to question people like him could have probably gotten more out of him. He knows more than he gave.

I finished the series today and the most frustrating thing is not knowing what's in that letter.


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Although interested in this case I've not wanted to watch any further episodes (I watched 1-3). I'm not sure why.

Compelling reasons I should continue?
 
Although interested in this case I've not wanted to watch any further episodes (I watched 1-3). I'm not sure why.

Compelling reasons I should continue?

The details in the abuse settle down a lot after episode 3. I found it very interesting. The actual crime scene is focused on again in episode 6


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Hello everyone,
I binge watched this program last weekend and it has not really left my mind all week. I have found that at the time of Sr Cathy's murder, and Joyce Malecki there was also two other young women that were found and there were very similar MO's surrounding their deaths. However, I cant find anywhere that these have all been seriously looked at. It seems the investigation as per the doco is centred around Sr Cathy's connection with Keogh and the abuse and this seems to take over any links with the 3 other murders around the same time. I have no doubts that what went on at Keogh and in other parishes nearby related to Maskell,I just feel the church connection has blotted out any other form of investigation linking these four horrible deaths.
 
I thought it was a documentary on the church sexual abuse, disguised as a 'murder mystery', and I still don't know what to make of Jane Doe's repressed memories of seeing the body.
 
I thought it was a documentary on the church sexual abuse, disguised as a 'murder mystery', and I still don't know what to make of Jane Doe's repressed memories of seeing the body.

I think this is what has dulled my interest. I can't put my finger on it though.
 
HI there,
Thanks for your post. I agree with some of what your saying, but there is so much with this case that doesnt add up. Sister Cathy had been gone from Keogh for four months, teaching at Western. IF she was going to blow the whistle, why was she waiting so long?? This has bothered me the most about this doco. A photo of Edgar was shown to Billy Schmidts sister in law and she DID NOT recognise him at all. He was not Skippy. Thanyou for your comments about Billy being Brother Bob. He was gay. There has been some conjecture on Brother Bob on other discussions. There was a Father Robert Hawkins who was also charged with sex offences, or the church was aware of them, who was a close collegue of Father Maskills...he seems a better fit for Brother Bob. Around the time of her murder and then Joyces there were two other young woman murdered, with very similar MO's these have not been linked, although they should indeed be looked at. THe time lines in this crime seem to be really muddy and its hard to get a hold of because of so much information coming from different places. I think you are right it was premeditated, but one theory I have is that her actual murder is part of the 3 other murders, possible serial???? And the links to the abuse at Keogh are purely coincidental. Good that it come out but not necesarrily why she was murdered. THe 4 month inbetween is a red flag for me. IF she was going to come forward I believe she would have.
 
HI there,
Thanks for your post. I agree with some of what your saying, but there is so much with this case that doesnt add up. Sister Cathy had been gone from Keogh for four months, teaching at Western. IF she was going to blow the whistle, why was she waiting so long?? This has bothered me the most about this doco. A photo of Edgar was shown to Billy Schmidts sister in law and she DID NOT recognise him at all. He was not Skippy. Thanyou for your comments about Billy being Brother Bob. He was gay. There has been some conjecture on Brother Bob on other discussions. There was a Father Robert Hawkins who was also charged with sex offences, or the church was aware of them, who was a close collegue of Father Maskills...he seems a better fit for Brother Bob. Around the time of her murder and then Joyces there were two other young woman murdered, with very similar MO's these have not been linked, although they should indeed be looked at. THe time lines in this crime seem to be really muddy and its hard to get a hold of because of so much information coming from different places. I think you are right it was premeditated, but one theory I have is that her actual murder is part of the 3 other murders, possible serial???? And the links to the abuse at Keogh are purely coincidental. Good that it come out but not necesarrily why she was murdered. THe 4 month inbetween is a red flag for me. IF she was going to come forward I believe she would have.

Perhaps she did to the police and it just happened to be the wrong officer, clergy etc?
 
IMO, I don't believe that the church or the two different uncles, had anything to do with Sister Cathy and Joyce's murders, but believe both murders are connected.

I've leaned more towards LE because of the sexual abuse by LE officers along with the priest. The ones brother named Robert was an officer. Robert - Bob?

But I should note again I've only watched the first 3 episodes.

ETA - priests I'm sure heard rumors of others priests and they just got moved so I don't think there was a real threat by clergy it seems.
 
We should back up to when Anthony "Joe" Maskell was a teenager attending St Mary's Seminary in Roland Park (Roland Ave). He and his friend, follow pedophile William Simms, were both teenage camp counselors at then Saint Martin's Camp in Love Point, Md (Kent County); a summer camp for children from the St Martin's Parish on Fulton Ave in Baltimore. I will not use his name, but the St Mary Seminary counselor at the time told me years later that he counseled Maskell and indicated that he (Joe Maskell) had problems. Yet Maskell, and Simms, were allowed to become ordained (years later) and they both further inflicted harm on numerous children under the protection of the Arch of Balto. He (Maskell) used his main talent (cognitive range superior range IQ and manipulation) to get what he wanted. At the above noted camp in 1957 William Simms was playing strip poker with the children, I was age 11yo, a young innocent child, as I walked by the cabin I heard the laughter from peers while Simms played strip poker with the children, outside the cabin was Maskell, leering me into the open area shower where he assaulted me. Following the abuse I asked someone who that man was and he answered a "student priest", years later I learn that that student was Maksell. I mention all this to show the hypocrisy of the Arch of Baltimore for teaching theology to the masses and yet allowing these monsters to exhibit their evil deeds on numerous children over decades. Clearly, since Maskell was capable of assaulting a young child, what hesitation would he display if faced with the fear that his (lie) world would be exposed ? Would he hesitate to kill a young defenseless woman who threatened to expose him for what he really was, I think NOT. Did he kill her, of course he did, he had the motive and the friendships of many cops, who fell for his manipulation and lies. I suspect that hole in her head was the barrel of closet only true friend, his gun.

Patrick Forestell

Thank you for sharing. May I post this time frame to the Facebook group. The doc shows that the archdiocese new from 1967. But you have now brought to light that he entered the priesthood with there knowledge. Thank you for being strong and sharing
 
Maybe Cathy spoke to the Archdiocese and they told her it would be taken care of? I wouldn't expect them to have record of it seeing as they only started recording complaints about Maskell in 92 and Charlie Franz says his mother complained about the abuse he endured in 67. We also know all they did was move Maskell from St.Clements to Archbishop Keogh after this complaint.

I also saw that Gemma said they are not considering the Billy theory because of the memory problems Brian had. I found his recount problematic anyway but I think it's possible Edgar and Billy were involved in some way.

It could be that the murder was not connected to the abuse but I find that a little hard to swallow. The anonymous student's account places a furious looking Maskell and Magnus in Cathy's apartment the very night before she went missing. And then we have Jean's memory of Brother Bob telling her he killed Cathy because of her and Maskell showed her the body. I believe Jean's recount of those events so I haven't really considered the murder not being connected to Keogh abuse.
 
I have just finished the Netflix series, so I've come looking for a discussion.
What is everybody's theory about this?.

My Theory:

Cathy Cesnik was about to whistle blow the entire Paedophilia going on.
Rev. A Joseph Maskell and his "friends" planned to frighten Cesnik, threaten her to silence. Beat her a little bit.
But accidentally killed her, as "Father Bob" stated.

People involved with the murder, who were involved in the rapes in the offices =

"Father Bob" (AKA: Billy Schmidt), because Billy and "Skippy" liked to dress up as Nuns and Priests. So Billy was impersonating a Priest when Maskell invited him to "play".

"Edgar Davidson" - Cruising around the school trying to pick up school girls.

"Maskell" - Well documented.

"Skippy" - Billy's friend (maybe lover).

"Unidentified Police officials" - Raped the children, so got rid of evidence alongside Maskell's policeman brother.

1. They all planned to threaten Cesnik.
2. Billy (with his son), and Edgar went to confront Cesnik but they accidentally killed her.
3. Billy shoves his son into his apartment next door, whilst Edgar wraps Sister Cathy Cesnik's body up into the rug.
4. Billy calls his friend "Skippy", to come over and help dispose of the body.
5. Edgar, Billy and Skippy put Cesnik's body into the trunk, whilst Edgar drives to the forest.
6. Skippy distracts Billy's son with shooting, whilst Billy and Edgar handle the body.
7. Billy and Edgar return to their homes covered in blood. Edgar leaves Cesnik's car where it was found by everybody.
8. Involved Police cover up, and "lose" evidence year by year.

What do you guys think?.

I think that Edgar should have his DNA matched against the cigarette buds found in Cesnik's car.
I also think Jean Wehner should be shown a picture of Billy and Skippy, to see if either one of them is "Farther Bob"
She might recognise him then, who knows.
The boy was Billy's nephew, and no one knows the true identity of skippy, therefore, no photo of him can be shown. There is something truly eerie about the demeanor of Edgar when he was being interviewed.
 
If anyone is interested, there is an episode of a great podcast called Casefile. The episode title is "The Catholic Mafia". It happened decades ago as well in Australia. The remarkable thing is how similar it is to this as far as the way it works. The priest, police, all of it. In this one there is an honest cop trying to expose what was going on and he just keeps hitting roadblock after roadblock. Terrible to think they seem to have a little system in place that operates in the same way across the board.
 
Hello everyone,
I binge watched this program last weekend and it has not really left my mind all week. I have found that at the time of Sr Cathy's murder, and Joyce Malecki there was also two other young women that were found and there were very similar MO's surrounding their deaths. However, I cant find anywhere that these have all been seriously looked at. It seems the investigation as per the doco is centred around Sr Cathy's connection with Keogh and the abuse and this seems to take over any links with the 3 other murders around the same time. I have no doubts that what went on at Keogh and in other parishes nearby related to Maskell,I just feel the church connection has blotted out any other form of investigation linking these four horrible deaths.



In addition to Joyce Malecki, who's murder is discussed in the documentary, there are the cases of 16-year-old Pamela Lynn Conyers, whose body was found in Anne Arundel County in 1970 and 16-year-old Grace Elizabeth "Gay" Montanye, whose body was found in 1971 in South Baltimore.

There is little information available on these cases but, from what I can tell, Pamela Conyers was abducted from the Harundale Mall near her home in Glen Burnie. She left her home at 8:30 PM Oct 16th 1970 and had purchased the shoe polish she set out to get. No one reported seeing her after that so it is assumed that she was abducted as she returned to her car. Her body was found in a wooded area between the north and southbound lanes of route 100 that was under construction near what is now the Waterford road overpass. Her car was found abandoned near where her body was found.

On Sept 29, 1971 Grace Elizabeth Montanye, junior at Franklin HS in Reistertown, Md. told friends she was going to meet some guy about a modeling job. Her body was dumped near Mt Auburn Cemetary in Baltimore City. I can find no indication that any vehicle that she had procession of was involved.

Joyce Malecki was abducted from the parking lot of a Korvette Dept Store in Glen Burnie on Nov 13, 1969. Her body was found in a creek on Ft Meade Military Base. Her vehicle was found abandoned behind a bar nowhere near either the abduction site or the body dump site. (I am unable to determine the exact location).

The Montanye case has several differences from the other cases so that it is likely unrelated. The Malecki case and the Conyers case occurred in the same city, the same basic MO and less than a year apart. A significant similarity is that the victim's vehicle was used in the abduction but it does not appear to have been used to returning the abduction site (where the abductor would be expected to leave his car).

The big question is whether or not they are related to the Cesnik case. Sr. Cathy died of a blow to the head, her hands were unbound and she was not sexually assaulted. Joyce Malecki was stabbed to death, her hands were bound and, while I can not verify she was sexually assaulted, her clothing was partially removed suggesting a sexual motive. I can find no information on the other two women but the assumption is that the crimes were sexually motivated.

The significance of the other cases is that they raise the possibility that Sister Cathy may have been a victim of a sexual predator and her case had nothing to do with the "problems" at Keough.

Joyce Malecki had very peripheral links to Fr Manskell so there is the speculation that her case is tied to the Keough "problems" but, on the surface, it appears to be a sex crime. A comparison of all evidence should establish the likelihood of any connection to the Conyers case which appears to have been a sex crime with no links to Keough.

In spite of all the tantalizing evidence turned up in the documentary, we can't rule out the possibility that Sr Cathy was not just the victim of a sexual predator who followed her to her Apt from where she had been shopping.
 
In addition to Joyce Malecki, who's murder is discussed in the documentary, there are the cases of 16-year-old Pamela Lynn Conyers, whose body was found in Anne Arundel County in 1970 and 16-year-old Grace Elizabeth "Gay" Montanye, whose body was found in 1971 in South Baltimore.

There is little information available on these cases but, from what I can tell, Pamela Conyers was abducted from the Harundale Mall near her home in Glen Burnie. She left her home at 8:30 PM Oct 16th 1970 and had purchased the shoe polish she set out to get. No one reported seeing her after that so it is assumed that she was abducted as she returned to her car. Her body was found in a wooded area between the north and southbound lanes of route 100 that was under construction near what is now the Waterford road overpass. Her car was found abandoned near where her body was found.

On Sept 29, 1971 Grace Elizabeth Montanye, junior at Franklin HS in Reistertown, Md. told friends she was going to meet some guy about a modeling job. Her body was dumped near Mt Auburn Cemetary in Baltimore City. I can find no indication that any vehicle that she had procession of was involved.

Joyce Malecki was abducted from the parking lot of a Korvette Dept Store in Glen Burnie on Nov 13, 1969. Her body was found in a creek on Ft Meade Military Base. Her vehicle was found abandoned behind a bar nowhere near either the abduction site or the body dump site. (I am unable to determine the exact location).

The Montanye case has several differences from the other cases so that it is likely unrelated. The Malecki case and the Conyers case occurred in the same city, the same basic MO and less than a year apart. A significant similarity is that the victim's vehicle was used in the abduction but it does not appear to have been used to returning the abduction site (where the abductor would be expected to leave his car).

The big question is whether or not they are related to the Cesnik case. Sr. Cathy died of a blow to the head, her hands were unbound and she was not sexually assaulted. Joyce Malecki was stabbed to death, her hands were bound and, while I can not verify she was sexually assaulted, her clothing was partially removed suggesting a sexual motive. I can find no information on the other two women but the assumption is that the crimes were sexually motivated.

The significance of the other cases is that they raise the possibility that Sister Cathy may have been a victim of a sexual predator and her case had nothing to do with the "problems" at Keough.

Joyce Malecki had very peripheral links to Fr Manskell so there is the speculation that her case is tied to the Keough "problems" but, on the surface, it appears to be a sex crime. A comparison of all evidence should establish the likelihood of any connection to the Conyers case which appears to have been a sex crime with no links to Keough.

In spite of all the tantalizing evidence turned up in the documentary, we can't rule out the possibility that Sr Cathy was not just the victim of a sexual predator who followed her to her Apt from where she had been shopping.

Sr Cathy wasn't sexually assaulted? Part of her clothing was removed (chest exposes) but I don't recall them saying if she was sexually assault or not. I assumed she was.


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Sr Cathy wasn't sexually assaulted? Part of her clothing was removed (chest exposes) but I don't recall them saying if she was sexually assault or not. I assumed she was.


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I found one reference that Sr Cathy was wearing the coat she always wore when she was found so I assumed was was fully dressed. Do you have better information. I have found no mention of sexual assault. One other thing I do not know is the source of the DNA that was compared to Manskell's. If she was sexually assaulted, it would argue strongly against her murder being part of a coverup or anything other than a sex crime.
 
I found one reference that Sr Cathy was wearing the coat she always wore when she was found so I assumed was was fully dressed. Do you have better information. I have found no mention of sexual assault. One other thing I do not know is the source of the DNA that was compared to Manskell's. If she was sexually assaulted, it would argue strongly against her murder being part of a coverup or anything other than a sex crime.

https://insidebaltimore.org/who-killed-sister-cathy/

"You gotta remember, she’d been laying out on the dump all this time, and the varmints had gotten to her,” Roemer added. “So whether she was raped or sexually molested, I don’t know. And I don’t think anybody ever will know, because the [Baltimore County] medical examiner reported [in his autopsy] that it was impossible to determine if the nun had been sexually assaulted"
 
After watching all seven episodes of the documentary series, I still don't understand why the filmmakers never even mentioned the possibility of a serial killer or random sexual predator, as several of you sleuthers note above is much more likely than a killing directly by or orchestrated by a sexual predator priest. Occam's razor is what I kept thinking of--the simplest explanation is probably the best explanation. The only relatively "simple" explanation that they do consider some is the possibility that Gerry Koob killed her, and that idea seems certainly worth considering.

I am finding it hard to understand why so many who have watched the series seem to wholeheartedly believe this far-fetched scenario put forth by the Jane Doe. I guess most people don't know how strongly the popular 1990s idea of recovered memories has been discounted over the years by psychologists and others. Her story of uncovering this supposedly repressed memory of being taken to see the body only after a former classmate casually talked about Sr. Cathy when they met years later feels very suspicious. I am not saying that Jane Doe doesn't believe she went through all of this--but it doesn't make sense. This is the pivot for that theory of Maskell killing Sr. Cathy to keep her quiet, and it just doesn't hold water.
 

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