ME ME - Ayla Reynolds, 20 mnths, Waterville, 17 December 2011 - # 8

[HiHater]

bbm. This sentence negates any defense anyone has for cps IF cps had a role in Ayla being removed. If I recall correctly, the LE was told by the cps that Justin had permission to take ayla. How did cps know that Justin was ayla's real father and not some nut off the street? It would and does take more then two weeks to legally work through all the channels of custody arrangements. We can obviously see that because Justin linnel does not have custody of his daughter yet!!!! If we go by how CPA handled Ayla GD should already be with her dad by now.

Why wouldn't JD be able to have rights to his own child? He was NOT an absent parent, he had visits with her prior. He was established to be her father, and was either paying or ordered to pay child support.

We are missing HUGE pieces of the puzzle.

Did LE arrest TR that day? How exactly did DHHS get involved? What did officer's observe that made them fear for the children's safety? If TR voluntarily went to rehab, DHHS would not be involved. Furthermore, was Ayla in the custody of DHHS? Were the aunt/grandma actually named caregivers by DHHS or were they a temporary placement? Were home studies and background checks done on the aunt/grandma?

A million questions could be asked. I haven't seen anything that negates a defense for CPS, because no one even knows the true extent of their involvement. JMO JMO

 

[Beagle]

What I find curious is that DHHS went to all this trouble because TR was going to rehab for what 5-10 days........ seems a waste of their resources for that period of time if;

Ayla wasn't in danger with the current arrangement (demonstrated by the fact that baby wasn't removed).

or because JD suddenly decides that he wants Ayla (which should be dealt with through the courts anyway).

especially considering how understaffed they are with so many urgent cases (which this did not seem to be).

I do understand that staff in this field of work have a difficult time and decisions are easy but .... something seems hinky here to me.

JMO

 

[MAYABLEUZ]

However, it did rain some of the last days of October. Perhaps that's when the incident really happened? Also, I wonder how correct the figures are? I didn't rain what so ever the entire month of November? Also, one day in October it shows it rained 655 inches.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KWVL/2011/10/27/DailyHistory.html

Well, I am going on the fact that Ayla was brought into the ER on November 5th, 2011 because that is documented and also observed by Trista Reynold's that Justine DiPietro called her to let her know he was going to take her in. So we do have a timeline based on Hospital Records per se. Also a soft cast was placed putting Ayla to have a 3 week visit so it makes sense. What does not make sense his DiPietro's lie.

I am sorry I am unable to get back to Websleuths.com right away, it's just that I am involved with other investigations and it leaves me with little time. Thank u to everyone 4 the feedback. I am trying to catch up.

 

[cityslick]

If Ayla was deemed not to be safe, or less safe, in the home with TR's relatives, why was her baby allowed to stay? Shouldn't he have been taken into foster care? I know the obvious answer is probably because no one was pushing to get him, but I don't understand how the environment TR had preferred for Ayla while she was in rehab could have been so unsuitable, if CPS did not remove the younger child. JMO

I really don't understand some of the hostility toward TR on this board. Whatever happened, she is paying the ultimate price, due IMO to something done to Ayla by JD or at the very least, his negligence. JMOJMOJMOJMO

Everyone is yelling at CPS for placing Ayla in JD's care but you know what, how did it ultimately get to that situation? I don't think TR has anything to do with the disappearance, but it is TR's own actions that facilitated Ayla being moved out of her care in the first place. It takes a lot for CPS to remove a child from a home. Let's not start making excuses because TR wasn't fulfilling the duties to care for a child.

 

[Yoda]

Why wouldn't JD be able to have rights to his own child? He was NOT an absent parent, he had visits with her prior. He was established to be her father, and was either paying or ordered to pay child support.

We are missing HUGE pieces of the puzzle.

Did LE arrest TR that day? How exactly did DHHS get involved? What did officer's observe that made them fear for the children's safety? If TR voluntarily went to rehab, DHHS would not be involved. Furthermore, was Ayla in the custody of DHHS? Were the aunt/grandma actually named caregivers by DHHS or were they a temporary placement? Were home studies and background checks done on the aunt/grandma?

A million questions could be asked. I haven't seen anything that negates a defense for CPS, because no one even knows the true extent of their involvement. JMO JMO

I don't think I was clear in my post. Trista was only to be gone for about two weeks. If I am wrong please correct me, but even though Justin was paying child support etc., it would take more then a week for him to go through the proper channels with cps, or whomever, to take custody of Ayla. Even though he was established as ayla's father and there was no written custody arrangement he would have been advised, by lawyers and police, not to just go take her.
You are def right though hihater, we don't have enough info. My post was going by what little info we have.

And in response to background checks/home visits on aunt and grandma, as unfair as it seems thats the way things work right now. The people who want to take custody of a child are usually the ones jumping through hoops not the people in 'possession' of the child.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Everyone is yelling at CPS for placing Ayla in JD's care but you know what, how did it ultimately get to that situation? I don't think TR has anything to do with the disappearance, but it is TR's own actions that facilitated Ayla being moved out of her care in the first place. It takes a lot for CPS to remove a child from a home. Let's not start making excuses because TR wasn't fulfilling the duties to care for a child.

But Trista had help from other family members - how is that any different from the way Ayla was being cared for at Justin's house? Justin was going around doing things and leaving Ayla with other people, too. It's just that he managed to get the sanctions of CPS on his side. And, I might add, Grandma D. might have lied a little bit about where she was staying - as she did on national TV.

Personally, I don't buy for one minute that no drinking ever went on inside the DiPietro house. :twocents: And his girlfriend's sister was arrested for being heavily into drugs. So I don't see that one situation is safer than the other, especially now that Ayla is gone - we can't just overlook that.

I guess I'm one of those people guilty of making excuses for Trista. A major excuse in her favor is that Ayla never disappeared when living with the Reynolds family.

 

[Yoda]

Off topic. Who wants to do a case study on these boards? How long into a case is it when posters, myself included, start to get testy? Although I am still a newbie I have noticed there seems to be a honeymoon period where we all work together even if we believe different scenarios. Then, we've googled the heck out of everything, there is no new information and no advancement in the case is made and pow we get frustrated with each other.

 

[tamild]

I don't think I was clear in my post. Trista was only to be gone for about two weeks. If I am wrong please correct me, but even though Justin was paying child support etc., it would take more then a week for him to go through the proper channels with cps, or whomever, to take custody of Ayla. Even though he was established as ayla's father and there was no written custody arrangement he would have been advised, by lawyers and police, not to just go take her.
You are def right though hihater, we don't have enough info. My post was going by what little info we have.

And in response to background checks/home visits on aunt and grandma, as unfair as it seems thats the way things work right now. The people who want to take custody of a child are usually the ones jumping through hoops not the people in 'possession' of the child.

BBM

This is where the issue gets really odd in my mind. If I understand correctly, and I'm not at all sure that I do, Trista and Justin would've had equal standing as parents according to the law in Maine. With Trista indisposed, I'm not sure that there were any proper channels for Justin to go through, other than saying "I'd like to have my daughter."

 

[ThoughtFox]

Off topic. Who wants to do a case study on these boards? How long into a case is it when posters, myself included, start to get testy? Although I am still a newbie I have noticed there seems to be a honeymoon period where we all work together even if we believe different scenarios. Then, we've googled the heck out of everything, there is no new information and no advancement in the case is made and pow we get frustrated with each other.

Well, there are days when we need to just stop typing and step away from the keyboard. And some cases can get intense and start to bring you down - I took last weekend off from the Powell Case, for instance.

In Ayla's case there have been new developments in just the past two days - Justin bought life insurance on Ayla, the window bashing teenager was arrested, and Elisha made a statement. And now Trista may sue DHHS. So I would still call this a hot case.

I think any new development can throw people for a loop.

 

[menmo]

Suppose they did more of what you think they should have done with the checking out of Justin. From what we all know about him prior to the disappearance of Ayla makes him look like a better choice for a parent than Trista. MOO If Trista's sister had not called LE at the time of the fighting, would DHHS even have been called in? Would Trista have even gone to rehab? I say, probably not. Everyone is giving Trista all these kudos for getting help, when it really wasn't her choice at all, was it?

I doubt very much if she is going to stay sober. I'll bet she is drinking again already. To go to detox, that means you are in really bad shape, like getting the DT's if you don't have a drink. That's a lot more serious condition than the problem drinking that can just use some self control and kick the habit with abstinence.

True~From what was known about Justin he might have looked better than TR at that time, but I would sure hope that DFS or whatever you call them in Maine would do better background work on where they were placing her. They shouldn't just take the words of any adults when it comes to placing children or leaving children in a home, but many times that is exactly what happens. If Ayla wasn't in harms way at Grandma's and with the aunt then there was time to do a better check.
I have read it a couple of times around the internet that Phoebe has a relative on the inside of DHS, I think it was a case manager and if that person had any influence in this placement (and it's my opinion they should not), then I hope and pray they lose their job.
I know that DFS often times does an okay job but in this instance I truly believe that Ayla was failed, along with TR and her family.
As for TR's sobriety I will give her the benefit of the doubt. It's out there she had a problem, unlike all the cover up for what I think Justin's issues are. She sought out help for whatever reason and for that I give her kudos. What has Justin admitted and gotten help for? I don't think he's a saint in any form of measure.

Ayla was not moved from her aunt/grandma's care because their home was deemed unsafe---she was removed because her biological father exercised his parental rights. Perhaps the little boy's father didn't care or was unavailable.

Or perhaps he knew that the child would be well taken care of there. Not saying it's the case because I don't know but I would think if Trista was only going to be gone for a couple of weeks, unless that changed then Ayla and her little brother should have been left with the people she chose to care for her, unless there is something about them that we aren't privy to. Why upset the childs sense of security for two weeks?

What I find curious is that DHHS went to all this trouble because TR was going to rehab for what 5-10 days........ seems a waste of their resources for that period of time if;

Ayla wasn't in danger with the current arrangement (demonstrated by the fact that baby wasn't removed).

or because JD suddenly decides that he wants Ayla (which should be dealt with through the courts anyway).

especially considering how understaffed they are with so many urgent cases (which this did not seem to be).

I do understand that staff in this field of work have a difficult time and decisions are easy but .... something seems hinky here to me.

JMO

I agree!

Everyone is yelling at CPS for placing Ayla in JD's care but you know what, how did it ultimately get to that situation? I don't think TR has anything to do with the disappearance, but it is TR's own actions that facilitated Ayla being moved out of her care in the first place. It takes a lot for CPS to remove a child from a home. Let's not start making excuses because TR wasn't fulfilling the duties to care for a child.

Yes, TR's choices unfortunately led to this in a round about way. She sought help and ultimately her and her child, Ayla, was punished, severely I might add. Ayla was ripped away from the security of those I assume she'd been around and had a relationship since birth, for someone that I don't think wanted to pay child support or be a dad.

MOO

 

[cityslick]

But Trista had help from other family members - how is that any different from the way Ayla was being cared for at Justin's house? Justin was going around doing things and leaving Ayla with other people, too. It's just that he managed to get the sanctions of CPS on his side. And, I might add, Grandma D. might have lied a little bit about where she was staying - as she did on national TV.

Personally, I don't buy for one minute that no drinking ever went on inside the DiPietro house. :twocents: And his girlfriend's sister was arrested for being heavily into drugs. So I don't see that one situation is safer than the other, especially now that Ayla is gone - we can't just overlook that.

I guess I'm one of those people guilty of making excuses for Trista. A major excuse in her favor is that Ayla never disappeared when living with the Reynolds family.

My point is simply is if TR didn't have substance abuse issues (whatever they may be), Ayla would never had been removed from her care in the first place. Not everyone gets their kids taken out of their home, in fact most don't. Lets look at the aspect that CPS was even involved in the first place. Of course CPS is culpable. But so is TR. (I'm speaking specifically about the way Ayla was placed in JD's care, not her disappearance).

 

[maedlamsmom]

Everyone is yelling at CPS for placing Ayla in JD's care but you know what, how did it ultimately get to that situation? I don't think TR has anything to do with the disappearance, but it is TR's own actions that facilitated Ayla being moved out of her care in the first place. It takes a lot for CPS to remove a child from a home. Let's not start making excuses because TR wasn't fulfilling the duties to care for a child.

Yes, if TR had not had a drinking problem Ayla would not have been in Justin's care, and thus would not have disappeared. So, indirectly, TR does have some responsibility. However, the consequence of losing your child to the unknown because you have to enter rehab is not a natural or predictable one. And although, Trista will have to deal with this for the rest of her life because as a mother she will find a way to blame herself, I firmly believe it has no bearing on this case. Trista should have been able to trust JD, the father of her child. If JD did do something to harm Ayla, then he is solely at fault, and by extension anyone who is continuing to cover for him. Not Trista, IN ANY WAY. If I head out the door at ten at night, in the city, and get assaulted, one could make an argument that I am partially at fault because I 1) made the choice to go for a walk and 2) left the house at night and 3) chose to live in the city in the first place. But, the fault truly lies at the foot of my attacker. Part of my recovery may be dealing, on a private level, with my own feelings of guilt for what happened to me, but it would not be my fault. I would have a reasonable expectation of safety. As did Trista for Ayla. Any indirect blame that can be laid on Trista is purely philosophical and for Trista to battle on her own, not for others to judge.

This is all my own personal opinions, and please don't feel that I was attacking anyone who feels differently. :innocent:

 

[Yoda]

Yes, if TR had not had a drinking problem Ayla would not have been in Justin's care, and thus would not have disappeared. So, indirectly, TR does have some responsibility. However, the consequence of losing your child to the unknown because you have to enter rehab is not a natural or predictable one. And although, Trista will have to deal with this for the rest of her life because as a mother she will find a way to blame herself, I firmly believe it has no bearing on this case. Trista should have been able to trust JD, the father of her child. If JD did do something to harm Ayla, then he is solely at fault, and by extension anyone who is continuing to cover for him. Not Trista, IN ANY WAY. If I head out the door at ten at night, in the city, and get assaulted, one could make an argument that I am partially at fault because I 1) made the choice to go for a walk and 2) left the house at night and 3) chose to live in the city in the first place. But, the fault truly lies at the foot of my attacker. Part of my recovery may be dealing, on a private level, with my own feelings of guilt for what happened to me, but it would not be my fault. I would have a reasonable expectation of safety. As did Trista for Ayla. Any indirect blame that can be laid on Trista is purely philosophical and for Trista to battle on her own, not for others to judge.

This is all my own personal opinions, and please don't feel that I was attacking anyone who feels differently. :innocent:

Very well said. Thank you!

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Off topic. Who wants to do a case study on these boards? How long into a case is it when posters, myself included, start to get testy? Although I am still a newbie I have noticed there seems to be a honeymoon period where we all work together even if we believe different scenarios. Then, we've googled the heck out of everything, there is no new information and no advancement in the case is made and pow we get frustrated with each other.

:seeya: I understand what you are saying here, Yoda ... now, what I do see is that everyone here wants the same outcome : and that is for Ayla to be found ! While we may all disagree on the "who, what, where, when and why" -- everyone would like to see this baby found alive ...

Back to original question : the mods here will not allow and tolerate posters getting frustrated with other posters because of the TOS ... We can disagree on specific points -- but canNOT "bash" the poster ...

:innocent: A good example of "frustration" is the Baby Lisa Irwin case ... Many times I have had to walk away from that thread because my opinion is not a popular one ... but I will continue to post my opinion on that case, which is one I have remained firm on since day one :innocent: ...

Anyway, with respect to Ayla and the threads here, I think everyone that has been posting on this thread has been very RESPECTFUL of each other's opinions when compared to other cases I follow -- particularly the disagreement regarding Trista and certain aspects of the case ...

Sorry to be so long-winded :innocent: ...

All JMO ... and MOO ...

 

[naturallyme]

I have tried looking at this from all the angles I can think of to determine if DHHS did err in their involvement in this case.

These are the angles I have come up with so far.

1----If Trista's, Becca, or Jessica's home was unsafe and DHHS needed to remove a child, they erred in not removing both children.

If that was not the case then we look at a couple different scenario

2----If there was no Custody order already set, then Justin as the biofather under Maine law had a right to his child. If he decided to exercise that right he would have called and said I am coming to get her. If Becca or Jessica told him not to, then it would have become necessary to go through court, not DHHS.

DHHS does not get involved in just Custody disputes.

3-----If there was a Custody order in place and Trista had custody and Justin had a visitation schedule already set, it would have been necessary for him to go to court to get that changed.

What I am trying to say is this.

If a child in Trista's care was unsafe, then both children should have been removed.

Since her son was not removed, then the proper channels for Justin to obtain Ayla was through the Court system not the DHHS.

That is why I question the actions of DHHS.

 

[deoneta]

If children were always removed from homes because of drunken brawls, there would be more foster homes in this nation than MacDonald's. I don't think it was a case of removal for unsafe conditions. I think it was simply a case of JD exercising his right as a parent. I think custody was never formally addressed although I could be wrong about that since JD was ordered to pay child support. Now if it is shown that the DiPietros used a personal connection to side step regulations, or that the Reynolds reported injuries and requested an inquiry and those requests were ignored, I could fault DHHS. There are a lot of should haves in this case, starting with casual partners who should have used birth control, and a paternal family that should have been involved from the start, but ultimately, the guilty parties are most likely whoever shed Ayla's blood in that basement and any who assisted in a cover up. All MOO.

 

[tamild]

Respectfully snipped by me.

2----If there was no Custody order already set, then Justin as the biofather under Maine law had a right to his child. If he decided to exercise that right he would have called and said I am coming to get her. If Becca or Jessica told him not to, then it would have become necessary to go through court, not DHHS.

DHHS does not get involved in just Custody disputes.

Based on our very limited knowledge, I'm going with this choice, but with a slight twist. I feel that DHHS called Jessica and told her that they were suspending her temporary custody/placement/whatever because Justin had stepped forward and had the right to take her. We know from the timeline that Jessica refused. I feel that it was Jessica's refusal to surrender Ayla that caused the police intervention. I could be wrong, but if Jessica and Becca were named by DHHS as temporary caregivers, I would think that they had no legal standing at all to refuse to surrender Ayla. That would not be an issue in which DHHS would just wait to have settled in court. JMO

 

[CincinnatiKate]

Why am I under the impression that Justin was not declared as a biological parent yet? I have it as fact that there was NOT a DNA test yet---

 

[Velouria]

Everyone is yelling at CPS for placing Ayla in JD's care but you know what, how did it ultimately get to that situation? I don't think TR has anything to do with the disappearance, but it is TR's own actions that facilitated Ayla being moved out of her care in the first place. It takes a lot for CPS to remove a child from a home. Let's not start making excuses because TR wasn't fulfilling the duties to care for a child.

BBM

Unless, that is, you just so happen to have yourself a real good friend who also just so happens to be a CPS caseworker...:whistle:

Trista was/is no saint, but I still don't understand the urgency with which Alya was removed from the Reynolds home.

 

[HiHater]

Why am I under the impression that Justin was not declared as a biological parent yet? I have it as fact that there was NOT a DNA test yet---

There was confirmation of a DNA test and a child support order. According to some people, JD was in arrears. Not able to provide you a source, because this is thread #8, sorry!