Measles: To Disneyland and Beyond

[K_Z]

BW, the anti-vaccine doctor in arizona isnt a MD-- he's a DO and there is an active investigation file open on him by the AZ medical board.

A DO is still an MD, just with a different title. I asked my DO, and I have a nephew who is a DO. They get additional training in non-traditional areas like acupuncture that MD's don't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_medicine_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine

 

[Nova]

I grew up seeing nothing but DOs, was admitted to a DO hospital and had my appendix removed by a DO surgeon. I never saw an MD for treatment until I was an adult.

I also had vaccinations as they became available and antibiotics when I had infections. There was nothing particularly unorthodox about my care, except that our family doctor was more open to chiropractic solutions and holistic remedies. But we were never denied the treatments we would have been offered by an MD.

(My family had been morticians for generations and didn't trust MDs. "We bury their mistakes," was what they said. I don't happen to share their bias, but I wouldn't hesitate to see an osteopath even now.)

 

[Nova]

None of the above means I agree with the DO who opposes vaccinations. Vaccination is absolutely consistent with holistic theory.

 

[CoolJ]

I'm sorry, you can eat 100% organic, completely healthy, take all the possible vitamins and mineral supplements and you still won't have immunity from any of these diseases! It's not enough for your body to fight it off. Maybe once you're sick, eating right will help you get healthier more quickly...

I believe our bodies have the inherent ability to heal from everything and anything. We just need to support our body mind and spirit to make that happen. Our minds and our thoughts are much more powerful than anyone in mainstream medicine realizes. Western society is in a diseased state. We have a long way to go, but the change has begun. Most folks have no idea what it feels like to "feel good". And we don't need drugs of any kind to get there. JMO

 

[CoolJ]

I can't agree with a single thing you've posted here.

I'm very sad, and sorry, for you and your family, living with this level of paranoia and misinformation about medical care, medical professionals, medical education, science, research, and medical manufacturing companies. It's possible that you or someone in your family might need help and medical care someday, in an accident, or otherwise. Health professionals are not the enemy, and I'm very sad that you feel that way.

Medical professionals and science are not the enemy. The real "enemy" is ignorance, crippled by fear, paranoia, and superstition.

I wouldn't expect you to agree.
I didn't say Health Professionals are the Enemy. I am a health professional. I seek help from MD's all the time. I work very closely with quite a few a MD's.
I am not paranoid. I could say the same about "pro vaxxers" , that they are paranoid.. But I don't because I know that is not true.
There is a lot of misinformation in the medical fields. If all of your education comes from the allopathic establishment, then you are not going to be aware of the game changing work being done in other disciplines.
I just want people to be able to educate themselves and be able to make a choice.
I respect you and the work you do.

 

[CoolJ]

A DO is still an MD, just with a different title. I asked my DO, and I have a nephew who is a DO. They get additional training in non-traditional areas like acupuncture that MD's don't.

A DO is only an MD in the USA. Other countries have a very different scope of practice for Osteopaths.

 

[K_Z]

In my opinion, efforts to bring clean water, sanitation, and vaccines to developing nations have done more to improve lives and cut infant and child mortality worldwide than any other health care measures. Public health is the antidote to many of the problems of poverty that create and prolong illness, and shorten lives. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and their immunization initiative is one of many of these charitable efforts to improve health all over the world. Bill and Melinda give away money-- LOTS of money, both for vaccine delivery and administration, as well as funding expensive vaccine research.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/What-We-Do/Global-Development/Vaccine-Delivery

"...an estimated 1.5 million children die each year—one every 20 seconds—from vaccine-preventable diseases such as diarrhea and pneumonia. Tens of thousands of other children suffer from severe or permanently disabling illnesses."

http://patch.com/california/menlopa...s-donate-50-million-vaccine-research-Stanford

The $50 million grant over 10 years will build on existing technology developed at Stanford and housed in the Human Immune Monitoring Core, and will establish the Stanford Human Systems Immunology Center. The center aims to better understand how the immune system can be harnessed to develop vaccines for the world’s most deadly infectious diseases.

While illnesses like polio and measles are now readily preventable, scientists have been stymied in their efforts to fight diseases such as HIV and malaria. In part, this is because large-scale clinical trials can cost hundreds of millions of dollars and can take up to 10 years to determine the success – or often failure – of a vaccine candidate.

As gitana1 points out in a post above, we here in rich nations fare much better than people in developing nations, because we have access to not only sophisticated medical care in every corner of our country, but we start out in much better shape because we have clean water, sanitation, vaccines, and good nutrition helping us when we do fall ill. And that is precisely why we have the GREATER obligation to PREVENT these vaccine- preventable diseases from re-emerging and proliferating in our country. Because if these diseases regain a foothold here, the rest of the vulnerable developing nations are at even more risk, in addition to our own vulnerable domestic population.

Imagine what can happen if only one infected and unvaccinated person goes on a church mission to a poor country to "help" them, and infects many unvaccinated people there.

And imagine what can happen if only one contagious and unvaccinated person goes to visit someone in a children's hospital. One exposed and unvaccinated parent visiting in a NICU could infect and kill every infant in the NICU. It's really that sobering. Unvaccinated people pose a huge risk to our vulnerable populations at home and abroad.

 

[CoolJ]

BW, the anti-vaccine doctor in arizona isnt a MD-- he's a DO and there is an active investigation file open on him by the AZ medical board.

Every Anti-Vaccine Doctor whether it be an MD or DO is going to have an active investigation file open by their respective medical board. This is how it works. This is how Big Pharma controls them and potential whistleblowers.

 

[Hiandmighty]

BTW, this is what Dr. Wolfson said: (among a variety of things... He seems to have an obsession with washing detergent):

http://www.snopes.com/info/news/wolfson.asp

"Be angry with the cable companies and TV manufacturers for making you and your children fat and lazy, not wanting to exercise or play outside. Lack of exercise kills millions more than polio. Where are all those 80 year olds crippled by polio? I can't seem to find many.

In fact, be angry with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates for creating computers so you can sit around all day blasted with electromagnetic radiation reading posts like this."

=====================

I use Betonite Clay for detox, and essential oils and herbs and I grow my own organic vegetables, make my own vanilla extract and stuff like that. I obviously believe vaccines, while not 100% effective and not without some element of risk, are worth their weight in gold for what they have done for the world.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Every Anti-Vaccine Doctor whether it be an MD or DO is going to have an active investigation file open by their respective medical board. This is how it works. This is how Big Pharma controls them and potential whistleblowers.

Not true. Not true at all. Its also highly disregarding and disrespectful to the patients who were possibly harmed by errant doctors and of those patients who have legitimate complaints.

In my state, by and large the reason docs lose their license is drug and alcohol abuse. People report docs for strange and dangerous behavior.

My "pure and clean" paleo/eats well/into nutrition best man didnt believe in meds either and convinced himself that METH was the best solution to his problem, rather than use a pharmaceutical.

Let's just say that didnt work our for him (or jodie foster-- why is it always jodie foster??).

 

[K_Z]

I believe our bodies have the inherent ability to heal from everything and anything. We just need to support our body mind and spirit to make that happen. Our minds and our thoughts are much more powerful than anyone in mainstream medicine realizes. Western society is in a diseased state. We have a long way to go, but the change has begun. Most folks have no idea what it feels like to "feel good". And we don't need drugs of any kind to get there. JMO

BBM. This is very, very dangerous thinking, bordering on complete superstition and quackery. I have no idea what specialty you claim to perform as a health professional but this is definitely not appropriate, ethical, or responsible advice.

Using only one single example, a child with type I insulin dependent diabetes doesn't have high blood sugar because of what they are thinking, or their attitude toward life. They "feel bad" or present in a coma because they are in ketoacidosis, not because they didn't eat healthy enough, or meditate. Their pancreas does not make insulin. They WILL die, very quickly, without insulin. No matter what kind of healthy or unhealthy food they eat, and whether or not they have a good attitude about life. Their mind isn't the problem-- it's the pancreas, and the effect that the lack of insulin has on every single function within the body. They NEED insulin to LIVE. It's not optional.

Eating well, getting enough exercise, and performing relaxation activities will support health, and are to be encouraged. But none of that is a substitute for needed and life-preserving medication, and that includes things like preventative vaccines. People don't become infected with communicable diseases because they didn't think enough positive and self-affirming thoughts! Yeesh!

 

[nrdsb4]

As far as the medical professionals being vaccinated. I think it should be their choice. You really think it is ok for these criminal organizations to decide what is injected into the bodies of citizens?
I am Canadian and I have a constitutional right to refuse any medical procedure and that includes vaccinations. If some Doctor comes at me with a needle saying I have no choice but to be injected, I might just have to make a short trip over the border and get myself a Glock because that is not going to happen.

Even in the US, when a healthcare entity requires its employees to have a given vaccine, that employee always has "choice." NO ONE is going to hold them down and inject them against their will. They may not be able to continue their employment at that facility, but they will retain their right to refuse vaccination.

 

[gitana1]

I'm sorry, you can eat 100% organic, completely healthy, take all the possible vitamins and mineral supplements and you still won't have immunity from any of these diseases! It's not enough for your body to fight it off. Maybe once you're sick, eating right will help you get healthier more quickly...

True. Eating healthy may Increase the body's ability to fight off certain colds and things and may lessen the severity of other diseases. But if someone sneezes in your face with a nose full of measles and you haven't been vaccinated, you're going to get measles.

 

[K_Z]

"Nose full of measles".....sorry, much needed chuckle here! Thanks gitana1! :laughing:

(Just picture those evil little buggers spewing out and aerosolizing everywhere.....there's a political cartoon in that vision.....)

 

[jjenny]

However, vaccines are used in every country that is not in bed with big pharma. I mean, if you could show a link between big pharma and all the nations using the vaccine, I'd be more apt to think that perhaps there's something there. But every nation with socialized medicine, getting pharmaceuticals for very little compared to here, use vaccines and have similar schedules to ours (although they do vary by country). It's not just the US. And aid organizations like UNICEF, as well as WHO, etc., routinely go to third world nations, that beg for access to vaccines, and vaccinate for free, having negotiating low cost purchases of vaccines, which aid orgs and wealthier nations pay for.

Logically, then, these organizations do it because it works. Not because they are part of a vast, money-making conspiracy. http://www.news-medical.net/news/20...ndelaer-Chief-of-Immunization-for-UNICEF.aspx



I agree with much of what you've said. But our rates of death and severe complications from things like the measles are much lower than in third world countries because our medical systems are more advanced.

Also, for the reasons I outlined earlier, we retain the right for the most part to decide things like vaccinations. Fire fighters, medical professionals, etc., do not have to vaccinate their kids. Nor themselves. They retain the legal right not to. Now if they don;t vaccinate themselves, they can't come to work and that's fair because they are dealing with various populations and encounter people wkth various illnesses. But there is no law forcing them to vaccine themselves and certainly not their kids.

Also, we don't quarantine hardly anyone with a communicable disease. Communicable just means contagious. Which includes colds and flu. Quarantines are very, very scarcely used in developed nations particularly because they are so intrusive.

So actually, we indeed tolerate much of what you've stated we don't.

We do quarantine people with communicable diseases. Right now there are people sitting at home with their children because these children were exposed to measles. They are in quarantine.
Why should we waste valuable resources because some people refuse to vaccinate their healthy children?
And for child with cancer, measles could be a death sentence.
They can't be vaccinated so they depend on "herd immunity." But because not all people are vaccinating, we are losing our "herd immunity."

 

[LinasK]

I believe our bodies have the inherent ability to heal from everything and anything. We just need to support our body mind and spirit to make that happen. Our minds and our thoughts are much more powerful than anyone in mainstream medicine realizes. Western society is in a diseased state. We have a long way to go, but the change has begun. Most folks have no idea what it feels like to "feel good". And we don't need drugs of any kind to get there. JMO

Uhhh, yeah we do! Personally, I've been feeling crappy in the last few weeks due to a lingering cold, and now caught a stomach bug on Super Bowl Sunday. I've been completely miserable when I haven't taken medicines to relieve the symptoms. And I do know what it's like to feel good when I'm not sick!!! Eating healthy won't help you fight off Cancer either, that's magical thinking.

 

[CoolJ]

BBM. This is very, very dangerous thinking, bordering on complete superstition and quackery. I have no idea what specialty you claim to perform as a health professional but this is definitely not appropriate, ethical, or responsible advice.

Using only one single example, a child with type I insulin dependent diabetes doesn't have high blood sugar because of what they are thinking, or their attitude toward life. They "feel bad" or present in a coma because they are in ketoacidosis, not because they didn't eat healthy enough, or meditate. Their pancreas does not make insulin. They WILL die, very quickly, without insulin. No matter what kind of healthy or unhealthy food they eat, and whether or not they have a good attitude about life. Their mind isn't the problem-- it's the pancreas, and the effect that the lack of insulin has on every single function within the body. They NEED insulin to LIVE. It's not optional.

Eating well, getting enough exercise, and performing relaxation activities will support health, and are to be encouraged. But none of that is a substitute for needed and life-preserving medication, and that includes things like preventative vaccines. People don't become infected with communicable diseases because they didn't think enough positive and self-affirming thoughts! Yeesh!

I agree, Type I diabetics need insulin. And yes there are some medical conditions where drugs are a necessary evil. What I am saying is not black and white. What I am saying is that Western medicine relies way too much on drugs as treatment and I believe that is because of the control and influence that Big Pharma has within that community.

Now Type II diabetes, completely different story. Completely different.
Last year my mother went to see her Doctor because of some medical issues she was having. The doctor ordered blood work. Blood came back extremely high in sugar >20 I believe. What did he do? Tell her she was diabetic and prescribes metformin. He didn't ask her ONE question about lifestyle, not ONE. So I did my own intervention to find out she was barely eating. I put together a simple diet for her, added in some nutritional supplementation and told her to throw the metformin in the trash. One month later, her blood sugar was 400% better. Yet he still told her she was diabetic and will probably end up needing insulin. This is standard medical practice, I have heard these stories many times before. But when it came to my own mother I said the hell with that, screw him. And I gave her the contact info for a really good naturopathic doctor who gets it.
Of course, can you really blame the doctor? He only has 5-7 minutes per patient, how is he supposed to do a lifestyle evaluation? It's crazy and it is NOT health care.

 

[gitana1]

And so they are also going to be the population most affected by diseases such as measles.
Disease that was practically gone now is coming back. Even though nobody has shown any credible evidence that there is any connection between vaccines and autism.
And I am not amused.

This is what i mean:
"To call the news surrounding vaccinations a "debate" is misleading. The scientific and medical consensus is clear: Vaccinations are safe, and they work."

http://m.wtae.com/health/measles-ou...310?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Ok. I'm with both of you. But I think too few people on either side of the debate have actually read some of the studies. Like I said, I've read some. They were not as conclusive as people say. Yes, no link has been proven. But I don't believe the studies conclusively and absolutely disprove any link in all populations.

Again, I believe in vaccines. I get them all. But when people are dismissive and angry about the concerns of some parents who choose not to vaccinate or follow the schedule, then we cause them to further entrench and to totally dismiss the arguments of the majority.

Not good.

Respect is needed. Less rhetoric. Because there are medical professionals who have concerns so it is simply not as conclusive as most think ad not as black and white:

"I think that the government or certain public officials in the government have been too quick to dismiss the concerns of these families without studying the population that got sick. I think public health officials have been too quick to dismiss the hypothesis as irrational without sufficient studies of causation."- Dr. Bernadine Healy, former Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), largest U.S. federal agency responsible for conducting and supporting medical research.Dr. Healy has no known conflicts of interest in the vaccine-autism debate.http://www.fourteenstudies.org/

 

[CoolJ]

True. Eating healthy may Increase the body's ability to fight off certain colds and things and may lessen the severity of other diseases. But if someone sneezes in your face with a nose full of measles and you haven't been vaccinated, you're going to get measles.

So you are saying every human has the exact same response when coming in contact with measles? Or all communicable diseases?

 

[nrdsb4]

Actually, the rate of unvaccinated individuals contracting measles after exposure is approx. 90-98%, though it's probably far higher than 90% in someone who happened to be so close as to get a face full of infected snot vs. someone far away from the patient or who enters an infected environment after the patient has left the room. In either case, its incredibly high, but not 100%.