Measles: To Disneyland and Beyond

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Yes. And perhaps older moms with "degraded eggs" are creating children more susceptible to autism via triggers like repeated vaccines.
Click to expand...

More and more of the research is indicating that autism has a genetic etiology and that it begins manifesting during gestation.

The only reason it rears its ugly head around the time of vaccination is because vaccination often occurs at the same time as one would expect to see autism being expressed in a child. It's a coincidence of timing.

Anecdotes do not data make. One can also find anecdotes of families with a child who became autistic after receiving vaccines, withheld them for the next child, only to find out that the second child is autistic. I can think of two actual acquaintances right off the top of my head. Research has been done by people all over the world, not just by US pharma and medical interests and has shown no link to vaccines.

The original study which gave new life to the anti vaccine movement had 12 subjects. Only 12. Forgetting for a moment that it turned out the author of this study was found to have committed multiple ethical and scientific method breaches, 12 subjects in any study can AT MOST simply indicate the need for more study. One certainly cannot draw any solid conclusions off a study with so few subjects. More studies should be done and the results MUST be replicated numerous times before one can get a sense that the results are clinically significant. It simply hasn't happened.
 
Antivaxxers like to deflect off the safety and efficacy of vaccines by making a bunch of false-equivalences with whatever they can think of about the "failures" of modern medicine and then say silly emotional comments lacking validity like some people "aren't ready" to "hear the truth".

Here is the truth: Vaccines worldwide are a miracle and have prevented death and destruction.

There is no debate.

Your right to not vaccinate your kids ends when it affects my kids, my life, my productivity, etc.


ETA: False Equivalence: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

"A common way for this fallacy to be perpetuated is one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result. False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors. The pattern of the fallacy is often as such: If A is the set of c and d, and B is the set of d and e, then since they both contain d, A and B are equal. d is not required to exist in both sets; only a passing similarity is required to cause this fallacy to be able to be used."

False equivalence: vaccines are unsafe because doctors once prescribed hormone therapy to women which was halted after studies proved hormones are unsafe for women.

False equivalence: permarin (pregnant mare urine) was unsafe for women, therefore vaccines are unsafe for children.
 
Have your children had hoof and mouth disease? There is not a vaccine for this yet, as far as I know. Talk about a terrible disease, this is one! Your child has blisters in their mouth and throat, can't swallow, consequently feel like they are choking. It is scary to them and twice as frightening to you! Mine was three when he had it, and we had no sleep until it cleared up.

At the time, I told the pediatrician this was so bad that a vaccine needed to be developed for it! After going thru this, I was thankful for the vaccines the children had received.
 
Hiandmighty said:
Antivaxxers like to deflect off the safety and efficacy of vaccines by making a bunch of false-equivalences with whatever they can think of about the "failures" of modern medicine and then say silly emotional comments lacking validity like some people "aren't ready" to "hear the truth".

Here is the truth: Vaccines worldwide are a miracle and have prevented death and destruction.

There is no debate.

Your right to not vaccinate your kids ends when it affects my kids, my life, my productivity, etc.


ETA: False Equivalence: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

"A common way for this fallacy to be perpetuated is one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result. False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors. The pattern of the fallacy is often as such: If A is the set of c and d, and B is the set of d and e, then since they both contain d, A and B are equal. d is not required to exist in both sets; only a passing similarity is required to cause this fallacy to be able to be used."

False equivalence: vaccines are unsafe because doctors once prescribed hormone therapy to women which was halted after studies proved hormones are unsafe for women.

False equivalence: permarin (pregnant mare urine) was unsafe for women, therefore vaccines are unsafe for children.
Click to expand...

I agree. Because medicine is fallible, we must conclude that vaccines are not safe. Or because medicine is fallible, we cannot trust anything which comes out of that system.
 
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/06/27/anti-vaccination-crazies-strike-out-bible-belt-states-255483.html

"In May 2014, measles was at a 20-year high in the United States. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced that there were 288 identified cases—and counting. This is particularly dismaying news since the highly contagious disease was declared eliminated in the U.S. in 2000."

"Mississippi hasn’t seen a measles outbreak since 1992; West Virginia can count back to 1994. That’s because neither state permits children to enroll in kindergarten without getting their full roster of vaccines—no matter their parents’ personal or spiritual beliefs."

" In Mississippi, a state Supreme Court judge did not mince words in 1979 when he overturned a short-lived exception granted to parents ideologically opposed to immunizations: “To the extent that [vaccines] may conflict with the religious belief of a parent, however sincerely entertained, the interests of the schoolchildren must prevail.”
 
I have to add one more quote from the above link because it is stunning in its ignorance:

"Like many parents reluctant to immunize their children, Magee trusts her intuition (and information she finds on the Internet) over the advice of pediatricians. “I saw the Disney movie Bears, and if God gave bears instincts to survive their harsh reality, then human beings certainly have the instinct to protect children,” she says. “Mumps, measles and rubella do not scare me..."
 
"To the Parent of the Unvaccinated Child Who Exposed My Family to Measles
When your child gets sick, others are endangered—including my daughter with cancer." An open letter:

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/02/open-letter-parent-unvaccinated-child-measles-exposure

"Dr. Tim Jacks, his wife Anna, and their two children Maggie and Eli Courtesy of the author
Editor's note: The author is a pediatrician in Phoenix. A version of this letter first appeared in the Jacks' CareBridge Journal for their sick daughter, Maggie.

To the parent of the unvaccinated child who exposed my family to measles:

I have a number of strong feelings surging through my body right now. Towards my family, I am feeling extra protective like a papa bear. Towards you, unvaccinating parent, I feel anger and frustration at your choices.

By now we've all heard of the measles outbreak that originated in Disneyland. Or more accurately, originated from an unvaccinated person that infected other similarly minded vacationers. I won't get into a debate about the whole anti-vaccine movement, the thimerisol controversy (no longer even used in childhood vaccines), or the myth that MMR causes autism (there are changes in autistic brain chemistry prior to birth).

Let's talk measles for just a minute. It once was widespread in the US. It is now considered 'eliminated' in the US (not continually circulating in the population - only contracted through travel out of country). Measles is highly contagious (>90 percent infectious) and can survive airborne in a room and infect someone two hours later. Another fun fact is that measles is transmittable before it can be diagnosed - four days before the characteristic rash appears. "Measles itself is unpleasant, but the complications are dangerous. Six to 20 percent of the people who get the disease will get an ear infection, diarrhea, or even pneumonia. One out of 1000 people with measles will develop inflammation of the brain, and about one out of 1000 will die." That sounds fun!

"There were three shots for Maggie and two shots for Eli. They screamed, but they now have some temporary protection against measles. We pray it is enough."
Ok.

Calm down, self.

I assume you love your child just like I love mine. I assume that you are trying to make good choices regarding their care. Please realize that your child does not live in a bubble. When your child gets sick, other children are exposed. My children. Why would you knowingly expose anyone to your sick, unvaccinated child after recently visiting Disneyland? That was a bone-headed move.

Why does this effect me and mine? Why is my family at risk if we are vaccinating? I'm glad you asked.

Regarding measles, there are four groups of people.

All are represented in my family.

First, the MMR vaccine results in immunity for most who receive it. Two doses provides protection that can be confirmed with blood titers. My wife is in this group.

Second, about 3% of fully vaccinated children do not develop a lasting immune response. They have low blood titers and are not protected against measles. If exposed, this group will likely get the illness. I am in this group. I was thankfully not exposed.

Third, we have the unvaccinated. My son, Eli, is ten months old. He is too young to received the MMR vaccine and thus has no protection. Whether by refusal or because they are too young, exposed unvaccinated children have a 90 percent chance of getting measles.

Fourth, there are children like my Maggie. These are children who can't be vaccinated. Children who have cancer. Children who are immunocompromised. Children who are truly allergic to a vaccine or part of a vaccine (i.e anaphylaxis to egg). These children remain at risk. They cannot be protected, except by vaccinating other people.

Maggie was diagnosed last August with ALL—acute lymphoblastic leukemia (blood cancer). She has had multipe rounds of chemotherapy, lumbar punctures, and surgery to implant her port. She has been admitted six times since diagnosis and spent over three weeks at Phoenix Children's Hospital (including Halloween and New Years). She had been immunized fully, but we are unable to immunize her further until after treatments end. Her treatment will prayerfully end shortly after her 5th birthday, in January 2017.

Here is how the measles outbreak has further complicated our situation.

Unvaccinating parent, thanks for screwing up our three-week "vacation" from chemotherapy.
It was a Wednesday. Maggie had just been discharged from Phoenix Children's Hospital after finishing her latest round of chemotherapy. That afternoon she went to the PCH East Valley Specialty Clinic for a lab draw. Everything went fine, and we were feeling good...until Sunday evening when we got the call. On Wednesday afternoon, Anna, Maggie, and Eli had been exposed to measles by another patient. Our two kids lacked the immunity to defend against measles. The only protection available was multiple shots of rubeola immune globulin (measles antibodies). There were three shots for Maggie and two shots for Eli. They screamed, but they now have some temporary protection against measles. We pray it is enough.

Eli and Maggie were exposed to measles on January 21. Despite the treatment noted, they could start showing signs of measles any time from now through February 11 (21 days post exposure). After a new blood test, both my wife and I were found to be immune to measles, but the children will remain in isolation until February 11.

Unvaccinating parent, thanks for screwing up our three-week "vacation" from chemotherapy. Instead of a break, we get to watch for measles symptoms and pray for no fevers (or back to the hospital we go). Thanks for making us cancel our trip to the snow this year. Maggie really wanted to see snow, but we will not risk exposing anyone else. On that note, thanks for exposing 195 children to an illness considered 'eliminated' from the US. Your poor choices don't just effect your child. They affect my family and many more like us.

Please forgive my sarcasm. I am upset and just a little bit scared.

Papa bear"
 
K_Z, in response to your post, no, I do not think it is right for anyone dealing with the public to refuse to be vaccinated or keep up with TB shots or boosters. In fact, I thought they were required to as a job requirement. At least in my state, that is for healthcare, policemen, firefighters, city, state, and federal government workers. Nursery and childcare workers and teachers too.

The children have to have been vaccinated to start school. They only have so many days after school starts to get it done or they are kicked out (the first of the year). To play sports as they get bigger, all shots must be up to date, or they don't play. If a child moves into the district unvaccinated, after school starts, they don't start until the first round of vaccine shots are taken.

However, homeschooling is HUGE in this area! And who is to say whether those children are vaccinated?
Children mix through many outside activities such as church, sports, dance, arts, library not to mention grocery stores, shopping, theaters, playing with friends.

True story - In the 50's when the polio shot had just come out and there was much questioning about it when they were giving it at schools, my uncle was a principal. His teachers encouraged him to bring his son, who had not started school yet, and just put him in line with the first graders. Uncle was dead set against the polio shot and refused to do it. Well, a few months later his son came down with polio. He lived, although severely crippled in one leg. Poor uncle never forgave himself. Since I had taken the shot I was okay, however, my parents had to take the shot and my toddler brother had to take medicine because we had been with cousin right before he got sick. So there is a real life story of what a vaccine can do.
 
1&2&3 said:
The children have to have been vaccinated to start school. They only have so many days after school starts to get it done or they are kicked out (the first of the year). To play sports as they get bigger, all shots must be up to date, or they don't play. If a child moves into the district unvaccinated, after school starts, they don't start until the first round of vaccine shots are taken.

However, homeschooling is HUGE in this area! And who is to say whether those children are vaccinated?
Children mix through many outside activities such as church, sports, dance, arts, library not to mention grocery stores, shopping, theaters, playing with friends.

True story - In the 50's when the polio shot had just come out and there was much questioning about it when they were giving it at schools, my uncle was a principal. His teachers encouraged him to bring his son, who had not started school yet, and just put him in line with the first graders. Uncle was dead set against the polio shot and refused to do it. Well, a few months later his son came down with polio. He lived, although severely crippled in one leg. Poor uncle never forgave himself. Since I had taken the shot I was okay, however, my parents had to take the shot and my toddler brother had to take medicine because we had been with cousin right before he got sick. So there is a real life story of what a vaccine can do.
Click to expand...

BBM;

Don't be so sure about that. I don't know what state you live in, but only 2 out of 50 DON'T have a religious or personal belief exemption.

All states have exemptions for those medically contraindicated.
 
nrdsb4 said:
BBM;

Don't be so sure about that. I don't know what state you live in, but only 2 out of 50 DON'T have a religious or personal belief exemption.

All states have exemptions for those medically contraindicated.
Click to expand...

I have no clue why the states would allow religious or personal beliefs exceptions.
We don't allow religious or personal beliefs exceptions when it comes to treatment for children.
Why allow for vaccinations?
These exceptions provide a loophole allowing infectious diseases to spread.
 
1&2&3 forgot to say when my kids were little *I* got hand, foot and mouth disease first and it was soooo painful. It was excrutiating and my hands swelled up so bad i had to get my wedding rings cut off in the ER. Before we figured out what i had, i passed it to my kids.

I feel so bad for any kid who gets it. The pain was extreme.
 
Hiandmighty said:
"To the Parent of the Unvaccinated Child Who Exposed My Family to Measles
When your child gets sick, others are endangered—including my daughter with cancer." An open letter:

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/02/open-letter-parent-unvaccinated-child-measles-exposure

"Dr. Tim Jacks, his wife Anna, and their two children Maggie and Eli Courtesy of the author
Editor's note: The author is a pediatrician in Phoenix. A version of this letter first appeared in the Jacks' CareBridge Journal for their sick daughter, Maggie.

To the parent of the unvaccinated child who exposed my family to measles:

I have a number of strong feelings surging through my body right now. Towards my family, I am feeling extra protective like a papa bear. Towards you, unvaccinating parent, I feel anger and frustration at your choices.

By now we've all heard of the measles outbreak that originated in Disneyland. Or more accurately, originated from an unvaccinated person that infected other similarly minded vacationers. I won't get into a debate about the whole anti-vaccine movement, the thimerisol controversy (no longer even used in childhood vaccines), or the myth that MMR causes autism (there are changes in autistic brain chemistry prior to birth).

Let's talk measles for just a minute. It once was widespread in the US. It is now considered 'eliminated' in the US (not continually circulating in the population - only contracted through travel out of country). Measles is highly contagious (>90 percent infectious) and can survive airborne in a room and infect someone two hours later. Another fun fact is that measles is transmittable before it can be diagnosed - four days before the characteristic rash appears. "Measles itself is unpleasant, but the complications are dangerous. Six to 20 percent of the people who get the disease will get an ear infection, diarrhea, or even pneumonia. One out of 1000 people with measles will develop inflammation of the brain, and about one out of 1000 will die." That sounds fun!

"There were three shots for Maggie and two shots for Eli. They screamed, but they now have some temporary protection against measles. We pray it is enough."
Ok.

Calm down, self.

I assume you love your child just like I love mine. I assume that you are trying to make good choices regarding their care. Please realize that your child does not live in a bubble. When your child gets sick, other children are exposed. My children. Why would you knowingly expose anyone to your sick, unvaccinated child after recently visiting Disneyland? That was a bone-headed move.

Why does this effect me and mine? Why is my family at risk if we are vaccinating? I'm glad you asked.

Regarding measles, there are four groups of people.

All are represented in my family.

First, the MMR vaccine results in immunity for most who receive it. Two doses provides protection that can be confirmed with blood titers. My wife is in this group.

Second, about 3% of fully vaccinated children do not develop a lasting immune response. They have low blood titers and are not protected against measles. If exposed, this group will likely get the illness. I am in this group. I was thankfully not exposed.

Third, we have the unvaccinated. My son, Eli, is ten months old. He is too young to received the MMR vaccine and thus has no protection. Whether by refusal or because they are too young, exposed unvaccinated children have a 90 percent chance of getting measles.

Fourth, there are children like my Maggie. These are children who can't be vaccinated. Children who have cancer. Children who are immunocompromised. Children who are truly allergic to a vaccine or part of a vaccine (i.e anaphylaxis to egg). These children remain at risk. They cannot be protected, except by vaccinating other people.

Maggie was diagnosed last August with ALL—acute lymphoblastic leukemia (blood cancer). She has had multipe rounds of chemotherapy, lumbar punctures, and surgery to implant her port. She has been admitted six times since diagnosis and spent over three weeks at Phoenix Children's Hospital (including Halloween and New Years). She had been immunized fully, but we are unable to immunize her further until after treatments end. Her treatment will prayerfully end shortly after her 5th birthday, in January 2017.

Here is how the measles outbreak has further complicated our situation.

Unvaccinating parent, thanks for screwing up our three-week "vacation" from chemotherapy.
It was a Wednesday. Maggie had just been discharged from Phoenix Children's Hospital after finishing her latest round of chemotherapy. That afternoon she went to the PCH East Valley Specialty Clinic for a lab draw. Everything went fine, and we were feeling good...until Sunday evening when we got the call. On Wednesday afternoon, Anna, Maggie, and Eli had been exposed to measles by another patient. Our two kids lacked the immunity to defend against measles. The only protection available was multiple shots of rubeola immune globulin (measles antibodies). There were three shots for Maggie and two shots for Eli. They screamed, but they now have some temporary protection against measles. We pray it is enough.

Eli and Maggie were exposed to measles on January 21. Despite the treatment noted, they could start showing signs of measles any time from now through February 11 (21 days post exposure). After a new blood test, both my wife and I were found to be immune to measles, but the children will remain in isolation until February 11.

Unvaccinating parent, thanks for screwing up our three-week "vacation" from chemotherapy. Instead of a break, we get to watch for measles symptoms and pray for no fevers (or back to the hospital we go). Thanks for making us cancel our trip to the snow this year. Maggie really wanted to see snow, but we will not risk exposing anyone else. On that note, thanks for exposing 195 children to an illness considered 'eliminated' from the US. Your poor choices don't just effect your child. They affect my family and many more like us.

Please forgive my sarcasm. I am upset and just a little bit scared.

Papa bear"
Click to expand...

HiandMighty, that author was on CNN last night. They highlighted his story-it was very compelling. Then they interviewed another doctor-an Arizona cardiologist who doesn't vaccinate his kids.

Here was his response to Dr. Jacks' situation:

Dr. Jack Wolfson, the Arizona cardiologist who won't vaccinate his two young sons had the following comments to CNN about potentially exposing a child with leukemia to diseases like measles and polio:

It's not my responsibility to inject my child with chemicals in order for [the child with leukemia] to be supposedly healthy. As far as I'm concerned, it's very likely that her leukemia is from vaccinations in the first place.

I'm not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure. It's not my responsibility to be protecting their child.
Click to expand...

The reporter asked him: "Could you live with yourself if your child got sick, passed it on to another child, and that child died?"

This winner's reply was:
I could live with myself easily [if his unvaccinated child made another child gravely ill]. It's an unfortunate thing that people die, but people die. I'm not going to put my child at risk to save another child.
Click to expand...

These people DON'T GIVE A &#@% about your kid or anyone else's kids. It's all about their kids.

That's all fine and good if you don't live in a community-but of course, they don't care.
 
I saw a photo of the doc who doesnt give vaccines, and IMO, he has a touch of the "crazy eyes"... My Dh is a MD and there are several docs i have run across (including the best man at my wedding) who had to wind up in rehab, jail (seriously) or in-patient mental health for poor decision making because of underlying issues. For my best man MD, it was all 3.
 
Hiandmighty said:
I saw a photo of the doc who doesnt give vaccines, and IMO, he has a touch of the "crazy eyes"... My Dh is a MD and there are several docs i have run across (including the best man at my wedding) who had to wind up in rehab, jail (seriously) or in-patient mental health for poor decision making because of underlying issues. For my best man MD, it was all 3.
Click to expand...

The thing is, if he is any kind of decent cardiologist, he indeed writes orders on a daily basis for people to be "injected with chemicals," all of which have potential adverse side effects. Obviously, he doesn't put his "money" where his mouth is.
 
I just realized one doc i know was tried for murder decades ago and was acquitted and one medical student i know of has been serving time for manslaughter for the last two decades (both not related to medicine or to each other's cases).

Like all other population groups, medicine has their share of psychopaths/sociopaths.

I also recall the non vaccinating doc described his son as "pure", which harkens back to the theory of parents with possible untreated OCD obsessed with healthy, pure and clean.
 
Yoda said:
... I've never had to think about it before, but now I am wondering what the fatality percentage would be in the US. There haven't been any deaths from the Disneyland exposure has there? Tia
Click to expand...

My daughter is a doctor in Vancouver. One of the children in the hospital there who contacted measles through the Disneyland exposure has died. The child was under a year old and was unvaccinated. Of course the medical people are infuriated. The death was most likely avoidable.
 
That is a darn shame!!!!! Poor baby, probably died in pain too.
 
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