Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #10

[wasnt_me]

I assume LE checked outside, they would be dolts not to...It is hard to envision someone breaking a window with the shutters closed. Wouldn't they be afraid they might dent the inside of the shutters, thus giving themselves away? I have read about many staged crime scenes, and they are usually quite simple: A coffee table turned on its side, but police show that if pushed over, it would have landed differently, etc....this case is a fog within a fog....:waitasec:

I can bring forward my theories if you think they'll help.

 

[wasnt_me]

I've yet to hear of a case where shock led an innocent person into staging a crime scene. By all accounts, AK is a person with normal mental capabilities, and MK wasn't someone she was very close to-just a roommate with whom she supposedly didn't even get along all that well. I fail to see why AK would have gone into shock all of the sudden and started altering the crime scene if she simply discovered the body but had nothing to do with the murder.

I don't see evidence that the pair didn't get along. they attended events together, clubs together, sunbathed together. And even if they did not, It's hard to believe that "not getting along" would make AK absolutely cold to her roommates murder. But AK can't lock the door without the keys. RG had MK's keys. So I don't think she altered the crime scene.

 

[wasnt_me]

Well, I can picture Meredith tired, needing to read her college book, and hearing a knock on the door, and Rudy apologizing, saying the guys downstairs are away, can I just use your bathroom? She would have been sweet enough to say sure, but I am in the middle of studying....expecting him to be gone within a few minutes...

If the breakin was staged, RG could have done it for only one reason I can guess at.

That reason is that he thinks someone will suspect him. I know others will say they'd suspect him of a burglary, but obviously not, as we can see. He could have staged it because someone saw him talking to Meredith at that halloween party. Someone he knows, but obviously was never questioned.

Again, it's a guess to help those who are thinking about this theory of him staging the breakin.

 

[wasnt_me]

If he had time to be staging things, I presume the first thing he would have done is to flash the toilet. He left a lot of evidence at that crime scene (which is how he got caught) so I don't see him staging anything at all.

Not if he forgot about it after the trauma of what could have been his first murder.

 

[wasnt_me]

As Jenny points out, if he was staging the scene, he would have flushed. Furthermore, evidence demonstrates that his footprints go from the bedroom straight out the front door ... no stopping to lock the bedroom door, or to break a window.

We don't know this, because only one shoe is printed in that trail on the floor. That means the other foot could have turned in a position for him to lock the door. We simply do not know what his other foot was doing because there is no print on the floor to show. And yeah, if you want to say he was hoping, then he was hoping. But there was still only ONE documented shoe print heading out the door.

 

[wasnt_me]

Otto---Why do you leap to the idea that RG had to attack MK at the door? It is very reasonable to picture him knocking, and she opening the door, recognizing him as part of the downstairs association, and as they were all gone for the weekend, thinking it was Ok for him to use the restroom briefly. She may have then been surprised when he would not leave, and things escalated from there. I read of a case where a very studious girl opened the door to her neighbor, whom she had only known for a day or 2, as she had just moved in. He raped and killed her.

That's why, if someone knocks on my door, I make them step off my covered porch and talk to me while I look down at them from the upstairs window.

I remember once, I was expecting my boyfriend. So the bell rang. I whipped open the door. Two guys were there, trying to sell me something. They were RIGHT up on the door. One more step, and they'd be inside. I interrupted them and told them to step back. One of the guys immediately stepped all the way back to where one more step and he was going back down my steps. The other guy got an attitude and asked me why he had to do that. I told him, if you don't step back right now, i'm closing this door. His friend urged him to just do it, but the other guy kept the attitude. His friend was tugging him back off the porch as I was locking the door. I was lucky that it was nothing, and my BF arrived a short time later.

Once, I had some new neighbors. He asked to use my cell phone and hadn't lived there very long. He wanted to call a cab. It was daytime, still but late, like 7pm or 8pm (same time RG could have been around the cottage) I just took the number and went inside and called for him. I locked my door behind me.

Do you know later, the cab driver was calling me, because this guy had him do it? Then the guy started knocking on my door at least 2 times a week at night. Then, he did it once and it was late. I can't remember what time, but after 11pm. I opened the window and told him to get away from my house. He was drunk and I was scared.

Next door is a rental and he wasn't there long. I was glad.

My point is that sometimes, you open the door or you are already outside your house when strangers encounter you or neighbors you barely know approach you. Sometimes, you feel obligated out of neighborliness or whatever to appease this person.

I'm not strongly tied to the idea this happened with MK and RG, but it's possible.

It's also possible that RG lied to MK and said he was there to meet AK. He had expressed an interest in her and MK wouldn't think it was out of the ordinary for AK to have strange men around, even while daing Rs.

RG could have followed her home on her walk and barrled in after her. He could have chased her to her room. Nothing to knock over until she reaches her door. Just guesses.

 

[wasnt_me]

While he may not be Lex Luthor, let's suppose RG has seen enough TV shows to assume a perp always leaves traces of himself behind. If so, he needed to make it look like some unknown person was there in addition to himself, someone on whom the crime could be blamed.

After all, isn't that exactly what RG did in his first statement?

I never thought about that, Nova. That is an excellent point. And he said the person had broken in while he was listening to "head phones."

His theory that he was invited in goes along with the idea that he'd somehow gotten into the front door. However, he does not mention RS or AK. Just him, MK, and the fair-haired racist burglar.

 

[wasnt_me]

I know for a fact at least in germany college kids like to party just as much as in america ,it's just less obvious....they are not as up front and in your face about it as they are in america,I doubt Italy is any different.I went to Italy when I was only 14 on a school trip and we met some locals and of course ...we partied.
If RG was selling,maybe that's why MK let him in that night,she was tired and wanted something to relax before going to sleep.By what he wrote in his diary I really think RG thought he might had a chance with MK and I think he kind of had an obsession with her.I think he became enraged when she rejected him.
I think he staged the break in in case someone saw him going into the cottage.He ran out of the cottage without even closing the front door so why would he have locked MK's room?

Good points, but on the locking of the door, you have to have a key for that, and AK didn't have the key. RG had the keys. I believe he closed the door to the cottage, not knowing that it would fly back open if the door wasn't locked.

 

[flourish]

So he fancied AK but made a date with MK. Something wrong with this logic

What date?

Dont know was RG's story not mine or AK's

Tada! There you have it: He fancied AK in real life. In his lie to cops about why his dna was in a deceased MK, he said they had made a date, which I will remind you, was in all likelihood a LIE.
So that's the problem with that logic :giggle:
Everybody clear now? :innocent:

 

[wasnt_me]

Haven't defenders of AK argued all this time that Rudy's MO was to break in through the window? So now he staged the crime scene to what, fit his MO? How in the world would Rudy's breaking the window that divert attention from himself?

Yes, we have been. But people who believe in reasonable doubt in this case are not seeking to hold up any kind of opinion as this is "What must have happened." We are turning over theories as we discover reasonable doubt at any and all angles. It's called investigating, as much as we can do it from our computers, not being prvy to the actual evidence or trained in handling it. Some pick the theories that they believe in most, just as the other side has developed scenerios and comes up with the one that best fits what they see in the evidence.

I'm a strong believer that he came in through the window, but I welcome these other theories because if they are plausible, they just cast more reasonable doubt on the motivation statement.

 

[wasnt_me]

Forgive me my ignorance on the finer details, but I know that Italy's High Court ruled that Guede did not act alone----did they absolutely rule out others outside of Knox and Sollecito? I read a theory somewhere that perhaps Rudy was being hounded for $$$ by drug dealers, and they walked him to the boys downstairs apartment where he said he might get some. No one being home, they marched him upstairs to MK's, and got violent in a robbery, enraged that there was not more $$$ to be found. MK perhaps tried to appease them (her cell showed calls to her bank account). . .

I don't know about this, but I still swear I read somewhere that RG had said he was meeting a dude who drove a white car. I thought that car had been seen on the CCTV.

 

[wasnt_me]

Another question I had: I had read somewhere, with great interest , that the initial inventory reports did not mention the lamp from Amanda's room, and it was suggested that the lamp was brought into the room by investigators in order to see better. anyone else hear of this?

No, but it sure makes sense.

 

[wasnt_me]

LOL Okie Dokie

(thanks, SMK) :seeya:

ETA: I'd wondered if it was a regional thing or some new word that I'm too old to be hip to

Yeah, and "See you later!" (tonight when we murder someone....NOT)

Oh, these phrases, see how they get us in trouble!

 

[otto]

I thought I throw in an interesting line of a conversation between AK and her mother mentioned in the Motivations report:

"Further on Amanda goes on, saying ‚That is, I know that she had seen him before, but I don’t know why she let him into the house.‛"

So he didn't come through the window Amanda?

Correction: it is her father and here is the whole conversation:

Amanda: ‚Yes, I know, I know, I mean I hardly know him ... I never invited him to my house before.‛
Father: ‚Do you believe that Meredith did so?‛
Amanda: ‚Ah, I know that she knows him through Giacomo ... therefore‛
Father: ‚Is he one of the boys downstairs?‛
Amanda: ‚Yes, he was her boyfriend ... therefore ... perhaps he was saying: I’m looking for Giacomo ... can I come in? Or something like that...‛
Further on Amanda goes on, saying ‚That is, I know that she had seen him before, but I don’t know why she let him into the house.‛

Isn't that interesting. That's looks like a Freudian slip ... Amanda explaining how Rudy got into the house without mentioning the broken window.

 

[wasnt_me]

Here is what I meant:


AND :

So if Meredith borrowed Amanda's lamp after Amanda left on the afternoon of Oct 31, Amanda would not have subsequently been in the cottage at anytime she needed to use the lamp (late evenings and night). Much earlier I posted the theory that Meredith could have borrowed the lamp to put on or photograph the makup for her vampire costume. Meredith herself would not have a chance to return the lamp since she returns very late and is rushed the next day to get ready for the pizza party.

Forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7081612

It's plausible, but AK did come home on Nov 1st. Had lunch and MK was there, and MK left. BUt that does not mean that she remembered the lamp at the time. Probably forgot she'd borrowed it and was in certainly no rush to return it. At least i can't think of a dire need to return the lamp right away after innocently borrowing it.

 

[wasnt_me]

Massei doesn't mention the lamp all that much so I am not sure if he puts any weight to it. He mentions AK being questioned about it and she says she doesn't pay attention to her own lamp and didn't miss it. She denies kicking the door to try to get the lamp back. LE using the lamp and leaving it on purpose as some kind of evidence is a bit far fetched IMO.

IMO if RS really had wanted to get that lamp then he would have broken in the door. He already damaged the door so why not crack the whole thing open completely? I think they simply forgot about that lamp when they locked the door. The damage at the door could have been caused when they tried to get into MK's bedroom and MK tried to get them out. Maybe she even did lock her door because they were already harassing her. And then when they got violent at the door, a fight started. Who knows?

Possible if she'd been trying to get away from RG, too.

 

[wasnt_me]

Meredith was not some starry eyed, naive new visitor in Europe. It was home to her. If some guy she met once or twice came banging on the door when she was home alone, late at night, and she had studying to do ... why would she open the door. Her sister studied in Italy and would have told her about dangers and risks ... like druggies squaters. Instead of having to argue why she wouldn't open the door, I would like to know why she would open the door. Amanda ... sure ... she had the "american college atmosphere" argument on her side ... she would come home to an open door and not think anything. I simply don't believe that Meredith was that stupid.

Why does any victim in any rape or murder case, where it is suspected that the victim opened the door, take that action? The way you state it, even with saying her sister had warned her of dangers, people don't always listen to what other people say. They don't always heed warnings. They can also be caught off guard. They can also think they've seen the man in their own BF's home, so maybe he's okay. Who knows why they do it, but others have ended up dead by doing it. To say MK was unequivicably more intelligent than those poor victims is not fair.

 

[wasnt_me]

Well if RG staged anything, he must have been a truly horrible stager, considering he left a lot of evidence that led right to his apprehension. One would think that if he had time to stage, he'd try to at least flash the toilet first, and try to clean up his foot prints and hand print, rather than go breaking windows for no apparent reason.

I want to politely ask why you use the word "flash" for flush. I've seen you do it several times, so I'm assuming it's the way you say it wherever you live. I'm not nitpicking you. I'm just really interested. So if you don't mind, where does that come from or what area of the world are you in? I'm just really curious, because I never heard "flash the toliet" before.

 

[wasnt_me]

I still fail to see any reason why he would break a window.
He did not live there. Him breaking a window would not divert suspicion away from him.

BUt it did divert suspicion from him, just not the way others think he might have thought it would have. We would not have Ak and RS in question if it has not worked.

Said the other way, why would AK and RS stage it, as it didn't divert attention from them?

Others why guessed he did it so that his theory of another person climbing in and committing the burglary and murder happened while he was on the toilet. He knew he couldn't clean up his mess, so he attempted to explain it that way. He thinks it's logical for someone to scale the wall and throw the rock, because he can do it. So RG, IF he staged it, was attempting to bulster his claim that someone else broke in and did it while he was sitting on the toilet.

 

[wasnt_me]

This is all pure speculation on your part, otto. You don't know how well MK thought she knew RG or how close she thought RG was to her boyfriend. You don't know what RG might have told her to gain entrance, but you're always portraying MK as a saint, so surely she would open her door to a friend of a friend who claimed to be ill!

I don't know that any of this happened, but pretending that we can know it did not happen is just that: pretending. If this is the sort of reasoning on which AK and RS were convicted, then we have a gross miscarriage of justice here indeed!

I see this. I'm not saying the theory is the answer, but I see him claiming to be ill, saying he'd been playing ball on the court and went to the boys' house because he just had to use the toilet, but they weren't there. I see him acting like it was an emergency (anyone seen sex in the city 2 when Charlotte crapped her pants?) and I can see a person taking pity on that and letting the ill person in. Leerily, but feeling okay enough because she knows him through her BF. I can see him staying on the toilet, contemplating his next move. She might start to worry or call her mom because he's taking too long, and when he realizes this, he pounces on her. Or something to that effect.

Then, thinking that he can't clean up his evidence, he decides someone broke in while he was in the bathroom. he then stages it to be so. Removes his shoes to enter FR's room, trashes it opens the white shutters and the green shutter. Goes outside, throws the rock and leaves. or something to that effect. It's a guess.