Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #10

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With the injustices that you've seen abroad, which westernized country strikes you as the biggest offender?

I haven't done a scientific survey, so I don't really know. The answer is quite possibly the U.S., if only because we are roughly the size and population of the European Union.
 
I think we need to clarify that Knox is desperate during this time of appeal, as are her supporters. They may resort to running around the internet raising the issue of cartwheels and whether Knox brought strangers home. It appeears to be some strange effort to focus on irrelevant issues ... perhaps hoping to take focus off the facts.

The appeal is underway in the Knox/Raffaele trial. Her family has said that the appeal is the real trial ... guess that's where we are.

BBM
I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head, when you say
what is BBM - only thing is, this is exactly what was done to convict AK.
 
I think one of the worst moments is when Amanda asked if she needed a lawyer, and they told her "it will only make things worse for you", which is a blatant lie. The response ought to have been, "You have a right to one, certainly. Would you like to stop until one is secured for you?". That would have changed things, I wager. This, taken together with the fact that the interrogation was not video taped , makes the whole thing smell to high heaven, to me.
 
p. 18 of Rudy's diary: "I don't know what problems she had with Amanda, but I heard her complaining, so I got up and went to her room. I saw she was furious and she said - her exact words - "That *advertiser censored* of a doper." Heavy words for two people who are friends. Seems to have a ring of truth: Perhaps he witnessed this at a prior time?

"That *advertiser censored* of a doper" has the ring of truth to you? I realize the problem may lie in translation, but it sounds like bad melodrama to me: you know, cram as much slander into as few words as you can.
 
"That *advertiser censored* of a doper" has the ring of truth to you? I realize the problem may lie in translation, but it sounds like bad melodrama to me: you know, cram as much slander into as few words as you can.
Yes, you are likely right. I think it is because that kind of accusation and rampant name calling was so prevalent in my home growing up, so it is very familiar to me---plus, I got so caught up in Rudy's writing style that I began to believe that something of what he said was true. I guess it's not too smart of me. :(
 
I think one of the worst moments is when Amanda asked if she needed a lawyer, and they told her "it will only make things worse for you", which is a blatant lie. The response ought to have been, "You have a right to one, certainly. Would you like to stop until one is secured for you?". That would have changed things, I wager. This, taken together with the fact that the interrogation was not video taped , makes the whole thing smell to high heaven, to me.

I don't think LE would be that polite, and too bad AK did not use her head.... but she acted as one does who has nothing to hide because they are innocence.
Oh, not only no recording of the interrogation, no photos of her body were taken! That is most amazing!

If any recording was made, or photos were taken, and those were not disclosed to the defense, won't that be grounds for a mistrial? I believe it is here in the US.
 
I don't think LE would be that polite, and too bad AK did not use her head.... but she acted as one does who has nothing to hide because they are innocence.
Oh, not only no recording of the interrogation, no photos of her body were taken! That is most amazing!

If any recording was made, or photos were taken, and those were not disclosed to the defense, won't that be grounds for a mistrial? I believe it is here in the US.
Yes, well they could have replied "Yeah, it's your right." and YES, I feel it should indicate a mistrial, with all thrown out. Appalling, really.
 
Yes, you are likely right. I think it is because that kind of accusation and rampant name calling was so prevalent in my home growing up, so it is very familiar to me---plus, I got so caught up in Rudy's writing style that I began to believe that something of what he said was true. I guess it's not too smart of me. :(

I wasn't questioning your intelligence, my friend. We're just comparing gut reactions.

Mine is that I don't hear MK talking in those terms. I don't pretend she was a saint, but "*advertiser censored* of a doper" doesn't really have an English equivalent and MK doesn't seem the type to use that sort of language to refer to a friend, particularly not in front of RG.

But all this is just my impression. It isn't a matter of logic and I can't prove it.
 
I don't think LE would be that polite, and too bad AK did not use her head.... but she acted as one does who has nothing to hide because they are innocence.
Oh, not only no recording of the interrogation, no photos of her body were taken! That is most amazing!

If any recording was made, or photos were taken, and those were not disclosed to the defense, won't that be grounds for a mistrial? I believe it is here in the US.

IIRC there were a number of items requested by the defense and ordered by the court that the prosecution simply refused to supply. Yes, that would overturn the verdict in the U.S. (probably--in theory, an appellate court could rule the items weren't important enough to affect the verdict), but I don't know how Italian law deals with evidentiary disputes.

(ETA it's been awhile since we discussed this, but I'm sure we had at least one instance of the prosecutor defying the court and announcing "the defense has everything it needs." In the U.S., this would bring an instant rebuke from the judge and maybe even a contempt citation. In Italy, it seemed to pass without incident.

I'm beginning to think there are some important differences in the relationships between judge, jury, prosecution and defense in Italy v. the U.S. Of course, we know the judges serving on juries is the biggest one, but there seem to be others.)
 
Wasn't Knox back in court today, and I am wondering why there is no news coverage?
Next court dates (Saturday)
12 March
26 March
16 April
21 May
http://aklwei.wordpress.com/appeal-status/

ALSO: Is it correct that this appeal will have its ruling on May 21, after which the final appeal to the high court based on errors will be ruled in September, and then that is the end? Just trying to get it all straight. thanks
 
Wasn't Knox back in court today, and I am wondering why there is no news coverage?
Next court dates (Saturday)
12 March
26 March
16 April
21 May
http://aklwei.wordpress.com/appeal-status/

ALSO: Is it correct that this appeal will have its ruling on May 21, after which the final appeal to the high court based on errors will be ruled in September, and then that is the end? Just trying to get it all straight. thanks

There are a couple of variables here

This could be true unless the court decides to examine other items brought up in the appeals of AK and RS.

We also must remember that they may not rule immediately. Depending on what that ruling is will determine whether there are further appeals or not
 
Nova here is additional backup re the 9:46 computer activity on RS's computer

The help Amelie couldn't give comes by surprise from a Manga cartoon: Naruto. That night Raffaele, after having downloaded a Naruto cartoon, has opened it and then closed at 9.46 pm. If this is true he could hardly have been in time for the orgy at via della pergola (and if you miss preliminaries you miss everything).

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008/10/raffaele-was-watching-cartoons.html
 
Here are my issues with the 3 witnesses

1. No one can identify the individuals that made the " running footstep" sounds nor can they identify who screamed

2. None of these witnesses were found by ILE, they were instead found by journalists.

3. When a witness comes forward months to a year after a very well publicized murder which was in all the newspapers red flags are raised immediately

4. There are conflicting dates, times, in the statements, even to the point of one stating that she had read this in a newspaper prior to MK being found

5. 2 heard screams, 1 did not and 1 did not hear running footsteps

6. These statements are in direct contradiction of the witnesses whose car had broken down just outside the cottage in which they stated they did not hear any running or screams and they were there till 11:40 according to their testimony

ETA Her vocal chords where damaged and this is a critical fact

Capezzali gave conflicting statements about the dates and timelines, at one point saying she heard the scream the night of Halloween, which was the night before the slaying.
Maria Laria Dramis said she heard the sounds of someone running, while Antonella Manocchia said she heard a loud argument in Italian between a man and a woman, followed by a woman's scream

In both cases, the reporter sought them out to ask questions related to an investigation the paper was doing, then suggested they go to the police because the information they had might be useful.

Under cross-examination by Carlo Della Vedova, Manocchia said she would not have made the deposition on her own, but had felt "pushed" by the journalist, who later accompanied her to the police department

And all three witnesses didn't go to the police for months until journalists urged them to

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/arti...he-heard-scream-but-1302897.php#ixzz1JdjLZsjW

Maria Dramis, who lived in the area testified that on the same night she heard the sound of running footsteps under her window, a sound that woke her up around 11 p.m. This was not an unusual occurrence, but it struck her in light of what she found out the next morning about the death of Kercher just down the road.

A peculiarity about the testimony of the Monacchia Dramis is that they did not report what they had heard to investigators until over a year after the fact. When they finally did explain what they heard, it was only after prompting from a journalist who accompanied them to the police station.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=7189205&page=2
 
Again more backup with respect that this cell phone was not in the cottage by 20:13p.m.

But there's something more. According to Bongiorno the call that started from Meredith's english cellphone at 10.13 pm detected the presence of the mobile phone in the garden where it will be found the day after. This means that at about 10 pm the murder was already consumed and the killer was already going to throw the cellphones away. Which would set Raffaele, and by consequence Amanda, out of the games

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2008/10/raffaele-was-watching-cartoons.html
 
A starting point re: the TOD

The stomach contents are a reliable way to determine T.O.D in this case because sufficient variables are known. The time of the beginning of a meal to the time the stomach contents empty into the duodenum was given by expert testimony to be between 2-4 hrs with 2-3 hrs more likely. The court watched the actual autopsy performed by pathologist Dr. Lalli, who correctly closed the duodenum to prevent any slippage of the stomach contents downward.

The duodenum was found empty showing that the stomach contents had not yet passed from the stomach.

The stomach contents were measured to be 500 cc's and the findings indicated cheese and other items consistent with Meredith's meal.

Meredith's meal with friends began around 6:00 p.m. in the evening. She arrived home slightly before 9:00 p.m. That makes three known hours without the stomach contents yet emptying. This makes Meredith's T.O.D. very probably to be between 9-9:30 p.m. with 10:00 p.m. being at the far end.

The court's T.O.D. of 11:30 p.m. would mean the stomach had not passed contents into the duodenum 5.5 hours after the start of Meredith's meal at 6:00 p.m., which is completely beyond a reasonable timeframe.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...death_crucial_issue_in_amanda_pg2.html?cat=17
 
I will state that for the TOD again I have made it very well known that many critical things were not done that should of been to enable the determination of the TOD easier.

The first which many of you know being the fact that her body temperature was not taken immediately upon discovery.

The second being that Dr. Lalli should of had access to MK's body well before the time that he did. IIRC it was close to 24 hours
 
A starting point re: the TOD

The stomach contents are a reliable way to determine T.O.D in this case because sufficient variables are known. The time of the beginning of a meal to the time the stomach contents empty into the duodenum was given by expert testimony to be between 2-4 hrs with 2-3 hrs more likely. The court watched the actual autopsy performed by pathologist Dr. Lalli, who correctly closed the duodenum to prevent any slippage of the stomach contents downward.

The duodenum was found empty showing that the stomach contents had not yet passed from the stomach.

The stomach contents were measured to be 500 cc's and the findings indicated cheese and other items consistent with Meredith's meal.

Meredith's meal with friends began around 6:00 p.m. in the evening. She arrived home slightly before 9:00 p.m. That makes three known hours without the stomach contents yet emptying. This makes Meredith's T.O.D. very probably to be between 9-9:30 p.m. with 10:00 p.m. being at the far end.

The court's T.O.D. of 11:30 p.m. would mean the stomach had not passed contents into the duodenum 5.5 hours after the start of Meredith's meal at 6:00 p.m., which is completely beyond a reasonable timeframe.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...death_crucial_issue_in_amanda_pg2.html?cat=17
Excellent point and confirmation. Of course Hendry's lone wolf analysis depends on TOD being by 9:30 PM---he presupposes that Guede surprised Kercher minutes after she arrived home, and the violence quickly escalated, with Guede departing within 12 minutes, like a typical burglary turned murder.
 
Apparently, Stephen King is a homicidal psychopath. I imagine this will be news to his family and friends, because he seems like a nice guy.

If I applied even half the things that have been stated here I think we could expand the number to include 25% of the worlds population

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
I wanted to add that I don't appreciate Knox being seen as a sociopath with a vibrator, or some airhead American college chick, but alas.....I guess that is par for the course. :(

When alternative arugments cannot be made with any validity regarding the facts usually the only thing left is the character assassination. I affectionately call it the Court of Last resort :giggle:
 
We were discussing Meredith's top sheet (back two threads?) It's just strange to me how things are placed on her bed... her purse, papers?, a towel and few other things I can't make out...

(looking at old articles) I came across this...

Meredith's body was discovered under a duvet, a leg and an arm, however, were on the edge of the deck. Come se non fosse stata usata semplicemente per nascondere il cadavere ma per avvolgerlo e trasportarlo. As if it had been used simply to hide the body but to wrap it and ship it. Non solo il reggiseno della studentessa londinese sporco di sangue è stato raccolto ben lontano dal corpo.​
http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhix2_O8FaRFWV6y-sGud-Lv-WvIow

I read it in another old article too.

Remember in the very, very beginning, Rudy said he didn't see the intruders, they ran out, got in a car and drove off... now it makes me wonder if Rudy was with someone or came back with someone.

the family with the car trouble (and then the tow truck mechanic) saw the car.

I have always wondered about that car... anyway, just wondered if this had been brought up before?
 
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