Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #11

[wasnt_me]

I miss discussing facts, evidence and theories....:therethere::slapfight::therethere:

 

[Nova]

Really? Nobody but Malkmus asked about doing it for 'internet posters', and it wasn't the media 'claims' about the window not being the entry point... it was the prosecution's. Since the prosecution proved to the jurors that the break-in was staged (if even they said it was 'possible'), a video would certainly be a strong piece of evidence that someone could. Most would think they would do it for the jurors. Also nobody claimed it would 'prove' anything, just might be a handy piece of video.

The prosecution used computer animation to show the court/jurors a 'theory' of the murder scene. Why would a video not be allowed if it was probative?

A good defense team move might have been to show a person actually performing the act, not scuffing up the wall and climbing through without scraping themselves up.

You are simply wrong about this. 100% wrong. Dead wrong.

The prosecution admitted it was possible to enter through FR's window. THEREFORE, there was no reason for the defense to prove it was possible. Q.E.D. Period. Full stop.

It is true that the prosecution argued no one DID enter through the window, so the defense presented evidence countering that argument.

But the possibility of climbing through the window was not at issue at trial. It does not signify that the defense didn't spend time rebutting something the prosecution never claimed.

 

[Nova]

Of course I agree, but I was hoping you'd comment on the article about how ripped up the garment was.

You want the gay guy to comment on the removal of a bra?!

What HAVE you been smoking?

I hope you know that the above was written with great affection for you. But seriously, I have almost zero experience with bras, on or off. (In case anyone is wondering, no, I don't wear them either.)

 

[wasnt_me]

Nova, you're so silly! I got a good laugh--esp, since I just got finished watching two guys on youtube dressed as Rihanna and Beyonce, wearing wigs and bras!

But I wanted to talk to you about that whole analysis that guy did. Okay, you just ain't the bra type. LOL

Where's flourish? Does it fall under Flourish's many expertises? Flourish will talk about anything, if flourish will talk about poo.

 

[Allusonz]

Ha, why not go there and refute the article in the comments? I feel like you will not and can't. Or even refute it here with some actual facts.

One would think 'Frank' could clear things up quite easily but he has yet to do so. Is there ANY actual evidence of 'ILE's physical abuse against reporters' as you say/claim? Is there somewhere we could see that 'evidence'?

You mentioning 'the usual conspiracy crap' is quite funny too IMO. Where have I heard that kind of conspiracy stuff :waitasec: ?

An individual/site/forum must EARN THE RESPECT of other individuals/forums/organization regardless of the topic.

This should never be done on a site that is purported to be a site dedicated to the memory of a group or individual. As an example a site dedicated to the memory of the Challenger astronauts should be just that. It should not be used to purport various theories pro or con. It should instead be used to remember the lives, accomplishments, and families of those affected and a separate site should be used to voice theories, conspiracies, or PERSONAL AGENDAS.

EARNING RESPECT can be accomplished in many ways which include but are not limited to:

1. Being informed of the topic by doing your OWN RESEARCH not relying on the perspectives or comments of others

2 Supporting a point of view with fact or evidence instead of FACT or EVIDENCE BASED on INDIVIDUAL PERSCEPTIONS or INTERPRETATIONS

The letter, and I will use that term lightly, as it does not appear to me anything other than a very slanted, factually inaccurate, and biased opinion that addresses so many perceptions of the writer that have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of the harassment of journalists in Italy. If the individual had of researched properly, they would of noted that the CPJ conducted its' own INVESTIGATION and their sole purpose is to ensure the fair treatment of journalists not individuals associated with a case and forums.

For some reason I get the impression that you seem to feel that we are not intelligent individuals in our own right quite capable of seeing through as you so aptly stated to Malkmus earlier the BULL.

I can assure you that I do know the difference between a toy vibrator and a vibrator but surprisingly many do not realize what AK had was a toy vibrator.

More importantly, I know the difference between a crime scene that has been forensically processed properly and one that has not.

This entire episode appears to have been bought into once again by certain individuals without doing independent research and forming biased opinions based on misinformation and propaganda in the form of another PR campaign of the pro-guilt believers. Shame. You simply weaken your own arguments.

I can guarantee I will not lower myself to those standards

 

[wasnt_me]

Wow, Allusunz. After that great analysis of that "true justice" site, I'd like to ask: what's your opinion about the bra?

You did bring that ripping to my attention, after all.

 

[Allusonz]

Wow, Allusunz. After that great analysis of that "true justice" site, I'd like to ask: what's your opinion about the bra?

You did bring that ripping to my attention, after all.

What part? Whether it was tore or not? Yes it was tore and ILE admitted it very early on

The Dna on the bra has been compromised. That error cannot be eliminated thus it should never of been introduced into trial and whether it was in the US, UK it would not of been. There are a number of profiles on the bra. As well it appears contrary to what Stephanoni stated, there was not an abundance of RS DNA but LCN DNA.

There was also a number of other profiles that could not be attributed to anyone as they simply focused on a couple of individuals from the start and never got the DNA of others. Either way, the error in the bra cannot be corrected and it appears that it was from contamination

 

[wasnt_me]

Yeah I guess I mean the whole bra. Like that guy's theory that more of RG's DNA or whomever the killer was ought to be all over the bra straps. I guess I was just fascinated when I realized what that bra had gone through.

I took the motivation's word for it being cut and I thought that had been the end of it. but, no, he was yanking on those straps, pulling her like he had reigns in his hands until he broke it.

 

[Allusonz]

Yeah I guess I mean the whole bra. Like that guy's theory that more of RG's DNA or whomever the killer was ought to be all over the bra straps. I guess I was just fascinated when I realized what that bra had gone through.

I took the motivation's word for it being cut and I thought that had been the end of it. but, no, he was yanking on those straps, pulling her like he had reigns in his hands until he broke it.

If RS had of removed that bra, his DNA should of been all over it not simply on a clasp. Although we will probably never know the full dynamics of how that struggle happened I do believe that it was one way in which he tried to control her from either getting away or out of the room.

See I have another theory with respect to the door being locked but not fully thought out but based on personal experience is that by locking that door prior to the struggle it would of limited her means to escape. I though have no proof or evidence to back that up

 

[SMK]

If RS had of removed that bra, his DNA should of been all over it not simply on a clasp. Although we will probably never know the full dynamics of how that struggle happened I do believe that it was one way in which he tried to control her from either getting away or out of the room.

See I have another theory with respect to the door being locked but not fully thought out but based on personal experience is that by locking that door prior to the struggle it would of limited her means to escape. I though have no proof or evidence to back that up

I agree, if it was a 3 on 1 attack, Sollecito's DNA would be all over the bra, and not just on the clasp, considering the amount of grabbing and ripping the bra went through.

Do you mean MK's locking the front door left her with no means of escape? I agree. If you believe as I do that Guede was a lone wolf burglar turned murderer, it also left Guede with no way to exit. So it was the locking of the front door - done innocently and reasonably by MK before retiring to bed - which made Guede confront her instead of exiting, and left her with no means to escape from him.

 

[flourish]

Nova, you're so silly! I got a good laugh--esp, since I just got finished watching two guys on youtube dressed as Rihanna and Beyonce, wearing wigs and bras!

But I wanted to talk to you about that whole analysis that guy did. Okay, you just ain't the bra type. LOL

Where's flourish? Does it fall under Flourish's many expertises? Flourish will talk about anything, if flourish will talk about poo.

Wow, I don't know whether to feel honored or insulted :floorlaugh:
I have some thoughts on the bra as well as the vibrator Allusonz mentions down-thread...but ya'll gotta wait b/c my students will be here any minute

 

[dgfred]

Not fair to leave us waiting for your post, you should have been posting earlier :werk: .

 

[miley]

I found this article on the Huffington Post

Amanda Knox Case Prompts U.S. Students To Shy Away From Italian Study Abroad Programs​

LA STAMPA/Worldcrunch:
Study in Italy? No grazie. Young Americans seem to have grown less attracted by the opportunity to spend a semester or two at an Italian university. And according to a new study the Amanda Knox case is partly to blame.​

By Francesco Semprini
LA STAMPA/Worldcrunch
Full Article: http://www.worldcrunch.com/amanda-k...-study-abroad-italy-after-perugia-murder-case
​

 

[SMK]

I found this article on the Huffington Post

Amanda Knox Case Prompts U.S. Students To Shy Away From Italian Study Abroad Programs​

LA STAMPA/Worldcrunch:
Study in Italy? No grazie. Young Americans seem to have grown less attracted by the opportunity to spend a semester or two at an Italian university. And according to a new study the Amanda Knox case is partly to blame.​

By Francesco Semprini
LA STAMPA/Worldcrunch
Full Article: http://www.worldcrunch.com/amanda-k...-study-abroad-italy-after-perugia-murder-case
​

Thanks for posting this, Miley. Interesting that there has been a general decline in US travel dollars. She looks so sweet in that picture, and she had no idea what awaited her. This is not to say that I am naive enough to believe a young girl could not take part in a brutal murder: We know full well they can. I do not believe the evidence reveals Amanda as a killer though. Thanks again for posting.

 

[flourish]

Nova, you're so silly! I got a good laugh--esp, since I just got finished watching two guys on youtube dressed as Rihanna and Beyonce, wearing wigs and bras!

But I wanted to talk to you about that whole analysis that guy did. Okay, you just ain't the bra type. LOL

Where's flourish? Does it fall under Flourish's many expertises? Flourish will talk about anything, if flourish will talk about poo.

Okay, so as far as I can tell, the bra came apart at the seam, which is why the threads are still hanging on to that piece. Now, not having been able to look at the bra in "real life," or see a super detailed photo of the part where it came apart, it's difficult to say, but it appears, to me, that it was torn, ripped, or pulled apart from the other piece. However, despite what Hollywood and bad romance novels would like you to believe, it is actually quite difficult to rip through the materials in many, if not most, female undergarments. It of course depends on what exactly every piece of the bar was made of, as you have your various elastics, lycra, spandex, and other stretchy materials, fiber blends, double layers, reinforced panels, padding, plastic and/or metal under-wires/stays, and so forth.

It is possible that a knife was used to make a small cut to help the bra be torn off easier, but my best guess, using my years of experience shopping for and wearing bras, as well as the visual inspection of the photos of the bra, is that the bra was likely torn off with bare hands, which would require a significant amount of force.

If anyone feels the need to experiment, you can buy cheap bras at Goodwill and try ripping them apart (not even necessarily off of someone and you'll see how difficult it could be (of course depending on fabric, how many times bra was washed, whether it was hand-washed or machine-washed, and whether it was hung to dry or dried in a dryer--a dryer-dried bra's elastic will weaken quicker than one that has been hung to dry)
FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH

I can assure you that I do know the difference between a toy vibrator and a vibrator but surprisingly many do not realize what AK had was a toy vibrator.

Snipped with MAD RESPECT, for emphasis and space

Vibrators come in various sizes, styles, price-ranges, etc. Almost every vibrator package, and sometimes printed or imprinted on the vibrator itself, states that the vibrator is intended for "novelty purposes only." However, they are clearly sex toys meant to actually be used as such, are bought at the adult store, and come in a few different styles, with the wand and bullet being the two most "basic" styles. Then there are your more advanced vibrators, like the Rabbit (the one from "Sex in the City" if that means anything to you). The Rabbit is actually a combination of a wand and bullet vibrator, with some extra bells and whistles, so to speak.

Then there are those big wand massagers, like you can find at Walgreen's and such. Those can legitimately be used as suggested on the packaging, as a back or neck massager. They can also be used, like their racier cousins discussed above, as sex toys. They are occasionally sold in bigger adult shops.

The above is from my own personal...observations, so I have no link :blush:

So with all that said, I have two questions:
1) Why the heck did I just answer that question, anyway? Like, I thought one tiny thing we all agreed upon was that her vibrator didn't much matter except perhaps as a possible component of one possible aspect of a possible real or imagined motive...so I must have missed something, and would be much obliged for a hint. Perhaps it was on the TJMK and I missed it. :dunno:

2) So what exactly is a "toy" vibrator? The ones that say "novelty?" The ones that women give each other women at parties and everyone laughs but it is actually usable, even if silly and fashioned after a cucumber...or are "toy" vibrators like "toy" cellphones that kids play with? Surely not..."toy" as in "toy poodle" ? :giggle: j/k but really, what is meant by "toy" vibrator exactly? :crazy:

 

[wasnt_me]

Wow, I don't know whether to feel honored or insulted :floorlaugh:
I have some thoughts on the bra as well as the vibrator Allusonz mentions down-thread...but ya'll gotta wait b/c my students will be here any minute

You know what I was thinking? I was thinking about that cereal commerical. "Yeah, let's get Mikey! he'll eat it! He eats anything..."

And I was like, "I'll get flourish! I'm sure flourish is gonna talk about it with me."

Tell those darn students to teach themselves. we got research to do.:innocent:

 

[wasnt_me]

Okay, so as far as I can tell, the bra came apart at the seam, which is why the threads are still hanging on to that piece. Now, not having been able to look at the bra in "real life," or see a super detailed photo of the part where it came apart, it's difficult to say, but it appears, to me, that it was torn, ripped, or pulled apart from the other piece. However, despite what Hollywood and bad romance novels would like you to believe, it is actually quite difficult to rip through the materials in many, if not most, female undergarments. It of course depends on what exactly every piece of the bar was made of, as you have your various elastics, lycra, spandex, and other stretchy materials, fiber blends, double layers, reinforced panels, padding, plastic and/or metal under-wires/stays, and so forth.

It is possible that a knife was used to make a small cut to help the bra be torn off easier, but my best guess, using my years of experience shopping for and wearing bras, as well as the visual inspection of the photos of the bra, is that the bra was likely torn off with bare hands, which would require a significant amount of force.

If anyone feels the need to experiment, you can buy cheap bras at Goodwill and try ripping them apart (not even necessarily off of someone and you'll see how difficult it could be (of course depending on fabric, how many times bra was washed, whether it was hand-washed or machine-washed, and whether it was hung to dry or dried in a dryer--a dryer-dried bra's elastic will weaken quicker than one that has been hung to dry)
FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH




Snipped with MAD RESPECT, for emphasis and space

Vibrators come in various sizes, styles, price-ranges, etc. Almost every vibrator package, and sometimes printed or imprinted on the vibrator itself, states that the vibrator is intended for "novelty purposes only." However, they are clearly sex toys meant to actually be used as such, are bought at the adult store, and come in a few different styles, with the wand and bullet being the two most "basic" styles. Then there are your more advanced vibrators, like the Rabbit (the one from "Sex in the City" if that means anything to you). The Rabbit is actually a combination of a wand and bullet vibrator, with some extra bells and whistles, so to speak.

Then there are those big wand massagers, like you can find at Walgreen's and such. Those can legitimately be used as suggested on the packaging, as a back or neck massager. They can also be used, like their racier cousins discussed above, as sex toys. They are occasionally sold in bigger adult shops.

The above is from my own personal...observations, so I have no link :blush:

So with all that said, I have two questions:
1) Why the heck did I just answer that question, anyway? Like, I thought one tiny thing we all agreed upon was that her vibrator didn't much matter except perhaps as a possible component of one possible aspect of a possible real or imagined motive...so I must have missed something, and would be much obliged for a hint. Perhaps it was on the TJMK and I missed it. :dunno:

2) So what exactly is a "toy" vibrator? The ones that say "novelty?" The ones that women give each other women at parties and everyone laughs but it is actually usable, even if silly and fashioned after a cucumber...or are "toy" vibrators like "toy" cellphones that kids play with? Surely not..."toy" as in "toy poodle" ? :giggle: j/k but really, what is meant by "toy" vibrator exactly? :crazy:

Flourish, you just don't know how much I love it when you do these posts! Of course the Poo post will always be number one, but I can count on you to analyze something just about as deeply if not DEEPER than I would!

 

[Allusonz]

Snipped with MAD RESPECT, for emphasis and space

Vibrators come in various sizes, styles, price-ranges, etc. Almost every vibrator package, and sometimes printed or imprinted on the vibrator itself, states that the vibrator is intended for "novelty purposes only." However, they are clearly sex toys meant to actually be used as such, are bought at the adult store, and come in a few different styles, with the wand and bullet being the two most "basic" styles. Then there are your more advanced vibrators, like the Rabbit (the one from "Sex in the City" if that means anything to you). The Rabbit is actually a combination of a wand and bullet vibrator, with some extra bells and whistles, so to speak.

Then there are those big wand massagers, like you can find at Walgreen's and such. Those can legitimately be used as suggested on the packaging, as a back or neck massager. They can also be used, like their racier cousins discussed above, as sex toys. They are occasionally sold in bigger adult shops.

The above is from my own personal...observations, so I have no link :blush:

So with all that said, I have two questions:
1) Why the heck did I just answer that question, anyway? Like, I thought one tiny thing we all agreed upon was that her vibrator didn't much matter except perhaps as a possible component of one possible aspect of a possible real or imagined motive...so I must have missed something, and would be much obliged for a hint. Perhaps it was on the TJMK and I missed it. :dunno:

2) So what exactly is a "toy" vibrator? The ones that say "novelty?" The ones that women give each other women at parties and everyone laughs but it is actually usable, even if silly and fashioned after a cucumber...or are "toy" vibrators like "toy" cellphones that kids play with? Surely not..."toy" as in "toy poodle" ? :giggle: j/k but really, what is meant by "toy" vibrator exactly? :crazy:

Snipped for space

Ones in the shape of a rabbit that can be put on a key chain are one example. If you have ever been to a stagette or organized one they can be bought in assorted shapes and colour and are meant as a joke

The rabbit vibrator of which you speak can be seen at this link

http://pinkrabbitvibrator.com/

She testified to this

"It was a joke," Knox told the court. "It was a present from a friend before I came to Italy," she said. She gestured with her hands to indicate the size of the toy, which the presiding judge, Giancarlo Massei, translated as about 4 inches in length.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492226,00.html

“It was a joke, a gift from a friend before I got to Italy. It was pink and shaped like a little rabbit

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ial-for-killing-student-Meredith-Kercher.html

So far the prosecution has tied the crime to: smiling, tears not shed in public, condoms, hashish, a toy vibrator, yoga, a hug that wasn’t huggy enough, pizza, kissing and, well, everything Amanda did after the crime.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/03/

 

[wasnt_me]

Okay, I don't know how far we can go there on the vibe talk without scaring away the men and causing Salem to come in here and regulate, but...I'll give it shot...These will be from my own personal experiences, too.

First, I'm scared of the sex in the city vibe. And I would NEVER consider it a vibe or a toy. It's a monster. If you have to plug it in a wall, it's too much for me....geez! How much power do you need?

Anyways, I think a "toy vibe" would be one of those really small ones that people give as a gag gift, like I saw one disguised in a lifesavor wrapper, and some that look like lip stick tubes. Now, they are functional, don't get me wrong. But I can't imagine classifying it as a toy unless it was in the "gag gift" section of the speical store.

Yeah, they tell you on all the toys that they are "novelty" only. I don't know why. I guess in case you hurt yourself or someone else with it. Say it overheats and explodes. Can't blame the factory because they told you it wasn't for "real" use.

Anyways, It has no bearing. But it was sure fun to read your breakdown about it!

On the bra, having many bras destroyed by my dogs over the years, I can tell you, if you got fangs and chomping teeth, it's a breeze to tear up a bra! But, in truth, I don't know how long they've had to chew on them when I finally discover it. When I've caught them with the bras and not much time has passed, they knawed on it, but it's still wearable. (do not ask. Ok, yes I will put a safety pin in it and wear it! Bras are expensive! I'll never forget when they tore up my $35 Victoria's secret bras. I wanted to murder them!)

But the bra in question didn't seem to be made of lace, either. Lace is easier to tear up. I imagine that it was the force of RG pulling to get control of her and her pulling in the opposite direction, trying to get away that aided in the ripping.

Maybe he got her under control, pulled up her shirt and started trying to go further, but that's when she tried to get away, and he grabbed at the straps, since they were exposed, and yanked her back. I'd have to see her shirt to see how much blood it had on it to be sure.

Which reminds me. I want to know more about that jacket she was wearing. I saw it in a picture and it looked bloody. That should be proof she got attacked when she got home. She hadn't even gotten her jacket off yet.

Looking at the picture of the jacket, I can't tell if she got attacked in it or bled on it because it was already on the floor. A lot of the blood seems to be toward the bottom on the back and down the left side.

 

[wasnt_me]

I need to reread to Mot report again because I can't understand how they came up with the bra was cut after getting a good look at it.

That's crazy.