Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #11

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Probably because the notion that no one would have been capable of the window-climb is and has been perpetrated by internet posters, not the Italian courts, prosecution, or judges. If they were to make such a video it would be in response to us, therefore, a waste of time. Judge Micheli conceded that it would not take Spiderman to do it, and the Massei report concludes that it couldn't be done because of Filomena's (dubious and contradictory) testimony that she had closed the shutters. Nothing to do with height or difficulty in hoisting oneself up over the ledge.

ETA: And actually, the Massei report doesn't say it couldn't be done with the shutters closed, only that it would have required multiple trips up the wall to open them first.

Bull, if it was easy it would have been done. Since it is not... they did not.

Why would it have just been for internet posters, it could have been made only for the courts and IMO would have been of great value to the defense?

If someone did crawl through that window, there would have been evidence that someone actually came through the window. Massei would have noted that too. He didn't claim it was impossible, only that there was NO evidence of anyone climbing in that way.
 
Bull, if it was easy it would have been done. Since it is not... they did not.

Pure speculation on your part, supported only by incredulity based on your personal opinion that the wall climb couldn't be accomplished despite the courts deciding that it was feasible. So is this yet another instance where you disagree with Massei's evaluation?
And I find calling "bull" on what I've just stated a bit out of line.

Why would it have just been for internet posters, it could have been made only for the courts and IMO would have been of great value to the defense?

If someone did crawl through that window, there would have been evidence that someone actually came through the window. Massei would have noted that too. He didn't claim it was impossible, only that there was NO evidence of anyone climbing in that way.

Funny, the whole "there should have been evidence of the climb" considering the lack of evidence showing that Raffaele or Amanda was outside that window looking for the rock. Apparently it was damp out the night before and there should have been footprints in the grass, yet they did this supposed detailed inspection of the ground and didn't find a trail of prints from anyone whether they were about to climb the wall or get a rock. Massei's powers of deduction are flawed and wreak of double standard.
 
That is an incredibly weak argument IMO. So I'll leave it at that. The only acceptable debate would be if the defense team realized it couldn't be done (with video) showing it was easy, so they didn't try it. Otherwise not to was a lack of defense on a possibly very valuable video for AK and RS to be innocent of the staging.


ATTENTION:
Interesting and enlightening article on True Justice for Meredith Kercher by Kermit most of y'all will be interested in. Should clear up some of the 'Frank' mess some here doubted and some other previously twisted information used by the PR circus.
 
Bull, if it was easy it would have been done. Since it is not... they did not.

Why would it have just been for internet posters, it could have been made only for the courts and IMO would have been of great value to the defense?

If someone did crawl through that window, there would have been evidence that someone actually came through the window. Massei would have noted that too. He didn't claim it was impossible, only that there was NO evidence of anyone climbing in that way.

Bull?

Why would the defense spend time proving something to which the prosecution had already agreed? I don't know all the rules of evidence in Italy, but in the U.S., there is some question as to whether the defense would be ALLOWED to offer such evidence. A simple stipulation by the prosecution that such an entry was possible (which is basically what was said in Perugia) would end the matter.
 
Pure speculation on your part, supported only by incredulity based on your personal opinion that the wall climb couldn't be accomplished despite the courts deciding that it was feasible. So is this yet another instance where you disagree with Massei's evaluation?
And I find calling "bull" on what I've just stated a bit out of line.



Funny, the whole "there should have been evidence of the climb" considering the lack of evidence showing that Raffaele or Amanda was outside that window looking for the rock. Apparently it was damp out the night before and there should have been footprints in the grass, yet they did this supposed detailed inspection of the ground and didn't find a trail of prints from anyone whether they were about to climb the wall or get a rock. Massei's powers of deduction are flawed and wreak of double standard.

It had never occurred to me that the supposed lack of footprints under the window might work both ways. Thanks, Mal.
 
How hard is it to see when something is 'possible' but PROVEN not to have happened? That is what the prosecution did. The court found that the break-in was STAGED. Possible but proven not to have happened- Right!

How on earth would a video by the defense showing how easy it was for a similar sized man as RG to climb up and through the window 'not' help with the court/jurors??? It is just silly not to see that... and telling that it is not.

Why did they get the guy to reach up to the window? Did 'that' have a purpose in your mind?
 
It had never occurred to me that the supposed lack of footprints under the window might work both ways. Thanks, Mal.

Where was the rock? Was it close by where they didn't have to walk on the ground? Is there a link that shows where the rock came from?

Some here claim that LE didn't look at or investigate the ground around the window so we will never know... thereby their footprints were probably all over the ground outside the window. Which will it be?

Maybe she carried it in the bag from RS's with the large knife :crazy: . Ha, that's it... it was part of RS's apt.
 
After seeing and reading everything that I have been able to find on this case I still can not understand how AK and RS were found guilty of this murder. The lack of proof against them is astounding while the amount of proof against RG is also astounding. Add in the fact that we have an overzelous (to say the least) prosecutor and it makes it even harder to comprehend. During one of my searches I found very interesting articles by a Steve Moore who is a veteran FBI agent. He puts his thoughts on the case in easy to follow and understand points. I sincerely hope that both AK and RS win their appeals and are either aquited or at least given a new trial with a prosecutor who is not in trouble with the law himself.
 
You might want to read the Judge's report for this trial and the one from RG's trial to help you out. Looking over Perugia Murder File and True Justice for Meredith Kercher sites will also be of high value for your understanding.
 
You might want to read the Judge's report for this trial and the one from RG's trial to help you out. Looking over Perugia Murder File and True Justice for Meredith Kercher sites will also be of high value for your understanding.

Sure Fred Micheli did not agree with the prosecutor's hypothesis guess this point aptly describes how they felt about that

Even Judge Paolo Micheli, no fan of suspects Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, said that climbing through that window would not require “a Spiderman.” This was way back in October 2008, when he sentenced Rudy Guede to 30 years in prison and sent Raffaele and Amanda off to trial:

“In fact, this court believes that to enter that window you would not really need to be Spiderman, as the Tribunale per il Riesame claims in its hypothesis: it requires a man physically agile, as certainly Guede was, and certainly as are the burglars who visit the apartments of people at night.”

In his decision, Judge Micheli also noted that a burglar could easily throw the rock from the parapet next to the house and then climb up into the window. There was no reason to carry the rock up or throw it from the ground 20 feet below–as the prosecution contends in photo ops.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/07/
 
You might want to read the Judge's report for this trial and the one from RG's trial to help you out. Looking over Perugia Murder File and True Justice for Meredith Kercher sites will also be of high value for your understanding.
I explored both extensively, and came away thinking Guede was a lone wolf killer.
 
Interesting and enlightening article on True Justice for Meredith Kercher by Kermit most of y'all will be interested in. Should clear up some of the 'Frank' mess some here doubted and some other previously twisted information used by the PR circus.

Snipped for space

You mean Kermit of the famed PPT presentation that was ripped to pieces? Famed is the wrong word more like shameless

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Weird did not even address it to

His Excellency Giorgio Napolitano
President of the Italian Republic
 
I read what I could stand to at a site for "True Justice for Meredith Kercher". Frankly it left a very bad taste in my mouth the way that some of the posters were wording things. I do believe that a person who is able to think for themselves can look at what has been presented by both sides and decide for themselves who the killer is without having to resort to language that some have used in the "name of true justice". For me it really cheapens their arguements and makes it appear to be more of a tit for tat type of deal than any real attempt at justice for a brutally murdered young lady. When I have time later tonight after my daughters are in bed I will reread some things and take my time with digesting them, but for now I stand by my original theory that AK and RS were railroaded and that RG was the only one responsible.
 
Where was the rock? Was it close by where they didn't have to walk on the ground? Is there a link that shows where the rock came from?

Some here claim that LE didn't look at or investigate the ground around the window so we will never know... thereby their footprints were probably all over the ground outside the window. Which will it be?

Maybe she carried it in the bag from RS's with the large knife :crazy: . Ha, that's it... it was part of RS's apt.

Ask the ILE they should have it in their evidence room :giggle:

I wonder if they have it hhhhhmmmmmm I also wonder if it will melt like a lifesaver like the analogy to the lifesavers and the bra DNA
 
Ok Nova

I am still getting the and/or option here so I must be missing something. I don't believe from what I am reading that they must order a retrial. Any thoughts?
 
Funny, the whole "there should have been evidence of the climb" considering the lack of evidence showing that Raffaele or Amanda was outside that window looking for the rock. Apparently it was damp out the night before and there should have been footprints in the grass, yet they did this supposed detailed inspection of the ground and didn't find a trail of prints from anyone whether they were about to climb the wall or get a rock. Massei's powers of deduction are flawed and wreak of double standard.

Oh, that's because AK brought the rock and the knife from RS's kitchen. :innocent:

I agree, if there should have been prints outside indicating a break in, then there should have been prints outside inidicating a rock search.

Asking the defense to provide proof of the breakin is just as ridiculous, apparently, as asking the prosecution to provide proof that RS and AK were in the murder room. RS tapping his finger on a bra metal hook on a bra clasp just doesn't add up.
 
I read what I could stand to at a site for "True Justice for Meredith Kercher". Frankly it left a very bad taste in my mouth the way that some of the posters were wording things. I do believe that a person who is able to think for themselves can look at what has been presented by both sides and decide for themselves who the killer is without having to resort to language that some have used in the "name of true justice". For me it really cheapens their arguements and makes it appear to be more of a tit for tat type of deal than any real attempt at justice for a brutally murdered young lady. When I have time later tonight after my daughters are in bed I will reread some things and take my time with digesting them, but for now I stand by my original theory that AK and RS were railroaded and that RG was the only one responsible.

I simply must agree with you here. I can barely stomach the little I do read over there. I certainly don't believe most of what I have read to be in the memory of....
 
Oh, that's because AK brought the rock and the knife from RS's kitchen. :innocent:

I agree, if there should have been prints outside indicating a break in, then there should have been prints outside inidicating a rock search.

Asking the defense to provide proof of the breakin is just as ridiculous, apparently, as asking the prosecution to provide proof that RS and AK were in the murder room. RS tapping his finger on a bra metal hook on a bra clasp just doesn't add up.

So right if they have of actually analyzed the area they might of had things like EVIDENCE, and BARE footprints, and GLASS, with PHOTOS

Sorry my quirky sense of humour is showing again :giggle:
 
It's shoddy work. And what really opened my eyes was that bra analysis. That bra was ripped up. The straps were ripped apart, and half the back of it was ripped out, which caused the clasp to fall off it. With all that yanking and ripping going on, I don't see how RS's dna, in minute bits, was just on the metal hook--IF he had been one of the ones ripping on her bra.

And to boot, RG's DnA IS on the bra, so we have a scenerio of RG and RS playing tug of war with the bra? It would have been in two pieces if you had two men violently going at the bra. But RG would have won, seeing as RS was only touching the tiny metal hook, supposedly.

Also, of note is the fact that no one needs to touch the metal hook to undo a bra. You can if you want to, but it's the pinch that gets the bra undone. So if RS had been trying to unhook it, and the hooks are inward, more toward the body, he would have HAD to have touched the rest of the bra. It's just not possible to only touch the metal hook.

BUT in the crime scene video, we see gloved techs touching the metal hook with their dirty unchanged gloves.

[video=youtube;UMaTI0SiuLw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMaTI0SiuLw[/video]

Notice not even a minute into the video, two different techs have touched the metal hooks.Then they drop it on the dirty floor, then it appears to stick to the guy's hands as he tries to bag it. So I'm certain RG AND RS's DNA probably got on it during that video. I'm convinced that neither RG or RS ever had to touch it in the first place. Oh, and this video is not to mention whatever touching of it the techs were doing when they FIRST saw the thing 46 days earlier.
 
I'm personally satisfied with all the discussions and conclusions we've had about the window and evidence of a break-in. I think that we've brought up every report and every reasoning down to minute details that give the reasons it's credible that there was a real break-in. We've been discussing that window since at least thread 9.

In those discussions, we've shown that there is a scuff on the wall, contrary to other statements that there isn't. I agree with everyone who says the strongest evidence that the window is climbable is that EVEN the motivation report had sense enough to know that, even if it doesn't know anything else.

We've shown that there is debris from that scuff on the wall on top of clothes that were right in front of the window, which proves it came off the feet of the person entering through the window.

We've shown how the rock landing in the bag, tearing the bag and coming down is probably not likely something a stager would have done.

We've shown that the force of the rock hitting the inner shutter made that inner shutter hit the waredrobe, which caused clothes to fall out of it.

We've shown where RG tripped on the cable wire causing the TV to shift on the waredrobe, which also could have caused clothes to fall out of it.

We've shown that glass is clear across the room, something that wouldn't happen if breaking the glass from an open position inside the room, with the glass facing the inner shutter, the waredrobe and the wall.

Additionally, there was talk of a piece of glass that wa imbedded in RG's shoe that showed up in his bloody shoe print. It looked like a y shaped impression. This piece, I haven't read very much about, but it's indeed out there.

We've discussed how the report relies too heavily on FR's uncertain recollections, and I have read that RF has a lot of friends in ILE because she was studying law. Therefore, that's the reason her testimony carries such heavy weight. Let's remember, she's also the first one to insinuate that the break-in was fake. She didn't say it, but she said the thief was stupid for not taking anything and there was glass all on top of the clothes. No, he didn't take anything from FR, but he did from MK--including her life. And not every break-in happens because of money, BUT money was missing, as were phones. And yes, Glass was on top of some clothes because FR's room wasn't as clean as she claimed.

When FR even arrived at the house, her first concern was for the break-in, not for MK's room or locked door. That's why FR was able to rifle through her room, shifting the crime scene before everyone was told to get out of the house. So I'm not sure what the discussion was about breaking down MK's door, but whatever it was, FR was making sure none of her crap was missing first.
 
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