Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #11

[Nova]

Per the NY Times, the defense can ask to have all the evidence reviewed, but while the appeals court is required to hear the appeal, it isn't clear it is required to review everything the defense wants reviewed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/world/europe/06perugia.html

Here's an article that is short on explanation, but is VERY critical of the Italian system. (It does not reference AK and doesn't seem inspired by her case.)

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Italy/Articles/Visas-Permits/Legal-System

 

[SMK]

Per the NY Times, the defense can ask to have all the evidence reviewed, but while the appeals court is required to hear the appeal, it isn't clear it is required to review everything the defense wants reviewed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/world/europe/06perugia.html

Here's an article that is short on explanation, but is VERY critical of the Italian system. (It does not reference AK and doesn't seem inspired by her case.)

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Italy/Articles/Visas-Permits/Legal-System

Thanks SO much for your fine research. The reason I was confused was as you said, I kept getting conflicting answers according to those who side with or against the prosecution's case. I am going to read these now, but it is worrisome, that they indeed can DECLINE to review all. I think this is unfair.

 

[SMK]

and this from the NY Times you link above: It may be years before a definitive sentence is reached.

 

[SMK]

And from the second link, I think rightly critical of Italian jurisprudence, yikes::razz:

Arrest

If you’re arrested in Italy, you have no right to see a lawyer ( avvocato) before a hearing before a judge, but may give the name of your lawyer in writing. You have the right to silence and need only state your name, date and place of birth, and whether you’ve been arrested in Italy before. You have the right to notify your local consulate, who can provide the names of lawyers who speak your language.

You can be held for a maximum of three days before a hearing, when you must be represented by a lawyer (if you don’t provide a lawyer, one will be appointed by the court), after which you’re usually permitted to go free provided you’re deemed unlikely to flee, be a danger to society or destroy evidence. In serious cases it can be difficult to obtain bail and you can be held for up to three years without trial!

 

[SMK]

:waitasec:Or are things this bad here as well????? I think I read too hastily - does not seem too far removed from what goes on here(USA)---I know of someone who sat 2 1/2 yrs without bail before trial....

 

[SMK]

In any case, if it is only a limited review, this seems rigged in favor of the prosecution, and unjust.

 

[Nova]

In any case, if it is only a limited review, this seems rigged in favor of the prosecution, and unjust.

At least one site implied that the appeals court can look at certain issues (such as the issue under review in AK's and RS' case) and then, particular if that look reveals new evidence, the appeals court can decide to retry the entire case itself.

If this is true, then perhaps there is hope that the ongoing evaluation of the paltry DNA evidence may ultimately result in a new trial by the appeals court.

But I haven't found a site that discusses this clearly.

 

[SMK]

At least one site implied that the appeals court can look at certain issues (such as the issue under review in AK's and RS' case) and then, particular if that look reveals new evidence, the appeals court can decide to retry the entire case itself.

If this is true, then perhaps there is hope that the ongoing evaluation of the paltry DNA evidence may ultimately result in a new trial by the appeals court.

But I haven't found a site that discusses this clearly.

Well, that would give a measure of hope. But yikes, would a whole new trial be about 2 years again???:gasp:

 

[Allusonz]

One thing I cannot seem to get straight: If someone can help me, I would greatly appreciate it. Know I have asked this before: When they say that a "limited review" was granted for the appeals of Knox and Sollecito, does this mean only those pieces of key evidence (bra clasp, knife, etc. ) and that homeless Toto witness are being considered - and that all the various and diverse important material contained within the vast formal Appeals Summaries - TOD, cell phone and computer records, luminol - will just be left out? IMO, if the answer is "yes", Knox and Sollecito are doomed; if it is "no", there is a great deal of hope.

I hope this helps with respect to what the judge reserverd

Most importantly, the one about DNA.
After one and a half hours of council chamber, the jury came out with the answers to all requests written in an ordinance. Judge Pratillo Hellmann started announcing the decisions. The exception is not founded, was the sentence that kept concluding paragraphs. As the reading continued on, it looked like nothing had changed from the times of judge Giancarlo Massei, who only had denials for the lovebirds and their lawyers. Until the last point. Pratillo Hellmann admitted the review of the DNA on knife and bra clasp, and appointed Professors Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti, who are both form the University of Rome. The exception was founded

Pratillo Hellmann also admitted the discotheque witnesses, who will come to testify that on November 1st their clubs were closed, so to support the defense hypothesis that the bum Curatolo was wrong in seeing Amanda and Raffaele while the buses were leaving for the clubs; it must have been another day.

The judge reserved the right to decide --after the results of the DNA study-- about the stain on the pillow, the jail witnesses, the audiometric test and other requests. DNA comes first.

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010/12/dna-study-admitted-for-knox-and.html

Another interesting read


The jury wrote in its motivation: "Respect for the rule laid down in Article 533 (imposition of sentence only if the accused is guilty of the offense complained of beyond a reasonable doubt) does not fully share the Court's decisions d 'Assizes of the first degree

http://translate.google.com/transla...gia&hl=en&prmd=ivns&rurl=translate.google.com

 

[Allusonz]

At least one site implied that the appeals court can look at certain issues (such as the issue under review in AK's and RS' case) and then, particular if that look reveals new evidence, the appeals court can decide to retry the entire case itself.

If this is true, then perhaps there is hope that the ongoing evaluation of the paltry DNA evidence may ultimately result in a new trial by the appeals court.

But I haven't found a site that discusses this clearly.

I am going to go out on a limb here and this is simply JMHO

I believe this judge has read the appeals very closely as well as the Motivational Document and I feel he is examining the 3 things first that should never of been denied in the first trial being the DNA on the knife, bra, and the only witness that placed them there. These are also the 3 things that Mignini stated were the most important.

Remember all, even if for example he has not stated he will re-examine the breakin, that does not mean he has not looked over the supporting documentation that must accompany the appeal. We know the Motivational Document is ripe for appeal on probably every level.

Thus this is me out on a limb....I believe this judge is looking to overturn the convictions but he must have this stuff examined before he can do this. Thus anything he questions in his mind will be looked at (or I am an eternal optimist) Don't get me wrong I am still very concerned I will simply call this a gut feeling

 

[SMK]

I am going to go out on a limb here and this is simply JMHO

I believe this judge has read the appeals very closely as well as the Motivational Document and I feel he is examining the 3 things first that should never of been denied in the first trial being the DNA on the knife, bra, and the only witness that placed them there. These are also the 3 things that Mignini stated were the most important.

Remember all, even if for example he has not stated he will re-examine the breakin, that does not mean he has not looked over the supporting documentation that must accompany the appeal. We know the Motivational Document is ripe for appeal on probably every level.

Thus this is me out on a limb....I believe this judge is looking to overturn the convictions but he must have this stuff examined before he can do this. Thus anything he questions in his mind will be looked at (or I am an eternal optimist) Don't get me wrong I am still very concerned I will simply call this a gut feeling

You may be right, intuitions can be, and if you are, then.....:great:
But if you are wrong. . . well. . . let us hope not.....

 

[Allusonz]

You may be right, intuitions can be, and if you are, then.....:great:
But if you are wrong. . . well. . . let us hope not.....

:giggle:

I simply have to believe whether it is this appeal or further down the road someone will have the guts to stand up against the corruption in this case....or my asylum will simply be seeing me much sooner

 

[wasnt_me]

Not a confession, but there was coerced testimony and a false accusation a la AK with PL. As you'll recall, the real killer later told authorities that the prosecutor threatened to indict the killer's wife if the killer didn't testify against the innocent man.

Oh you watched it, too! wasn't that just horrible!

 

[SMK]

:giggle:

I simply have to believe whether it is this appeal or further down the road someone will have the guts to stand up against the corruption in this case....or my asylum will simply be seeing me much sooner

 

[wasnt_me]

That ADA is retired, but insists he did nothing wrong. After the defendant got a new trial with the help of the Innocence Project, the current ADA looked at the evidence (actually, the lack thereof) and refused to retry the case.

(The innocent man spent a total of 18 years in jail or on death row. Per 48 Hours, he is due $1.4 million in compensation, but the State of Texas is refusing to pay, citing a technical problem in the wording of the man's release document. The compensation case is being litigated in the courts.)

Yeah, and he said the current ADA (who is the she that I refer to) was scared to try it. Ha! I've seen her on other cases, and I thought all she cared about was winning. She's tough-nosed for sure, and when they said she was retrying the case, I just KNEW he was going to stay in jail. But she earned by respect by refusing to try the case based on lies. I was proud of her.

 

[wasnt_me]

and this from the NY Times you link above: It may be years before a definitive sentence is reached.

OMG, that means we could potentially have WS thread 1,012,931 by the time it's over!

 

[wasnt_me]

I hope Nova is correct about the appeal, as well, but I'm uncertain about what crack-pot witnesses they actually lent credit to in the first trial.

For example, we were discussing the olive-throwing HK last night. Did the first trial say he was credible? If so, that definitely needs to be re-evaluated. And also TOD and "MK's cell phone fiddling."

I don't know if the defense pushed for a re-evaluation of those two things, but to me, they are critical.

 

[Nova]

Well, that would give a measure of hope. But yikes, would a whole new trial be about 2 years again???:gasp:

Per one site, all appeals, new trials, etc., must be finished within six years.

 

[Nova]

I am going to go out on a limb here and this is simply JMHO

I believe this judge has read the appeals very closely as well as the Motivational Document and I feel he is examining the 3 things first that should never of been denied in the first trial being the DNA on the knife, bra, and the only witness that placed them there. These are also the 3 things that Mignini stated were the most important.

Remember all, even if for example he has not stated he will re-examine the breakin, that does not mean he has not looked over the supporting documentation that must accompany the appeal. We know the Motivational Document is ripe for appeal on probably every level.

Thus this is me out on a limb....I believe this judge is looking to overturn the convictions but he must have this stuff examined before he can do this. Thus anything he questions in his mind will be looked at (or I am an eternal optimist) Don't get me wrong I am still very concerned I will simply call this a gut feeling

I hope you're right. I just want to add that at least one summary of Italian law seemed to imply that the appeal judge might look at some items in question (such as the knife and bra clasp), just as you describe, and then order a retrial.

If the retrial were ordered, it would commence shortly before the same, appellate judge.

So I'm not sure whether the next step will be an appellate decision as to a new trial or as to guilt/innocence.

 

[Nova]

Oh you watched it, too! wasn't that just horrible!

Yes, it was! And that's only one of a number of similar programs I've seen of late. The only thing different was that a later prosecutor actually agreed with the defense position, rather than fighting it tooth and claw just to avoid admitting that mistakes were made.

This is a good place to state that while I have been very critical of the trial in AK's and RS' case and of some aspects of the Italian judicial system, I do NOT do so based on a belief that miscarriages of justice don't happen in my own country. Quite the contrary: I know they happen here, too.