Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[Nova]

I know, I know about RF, but why did she bring a whole gang of people with her?

Had the lovers waited for the carabinieri, a series of catastrophic blunders would likely have been avoided. For starters, the carabinieri would have prevented anyone from tramping through the crime scene. The two postal-police officers, however, allowed themselves to be led through the house in search of clues by a band of child sleuths out of Scooby-Doo. For there were now six of them in all — shortly after the officers showed up, two cars had arrived with Romanelli, her boyfriend and a third couple, friends of Romanelli's.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-neverending-nightmare-of-amanda-knox-20110627?page=2

BBM: Because first she called Patsy Ramsey and asked for advice.

 

[Nova]

I didn't realize you couldn't get out the front door if it was locked and you didn't have a key. Makes the finding Meredith's keys much easier for me to believe.

Sorry. I didn't realize you didn't know. It is a major fact of the case.

 

[otto]

It's somewhat ironic that Knox wanted Guede to tell the court her version of the "truth", but when she lied about Patrick and caused his arrest, she did not come forward at any time and tell the truth. Neither did her mother. They both knew that Patrick was in jail because of lies told by Knox, and they remained silent.

Knox: "The only time that Rudy Guede, Raffaele Sollecito and I were in one room together was in a court room.... He knows what the truth is. I don't know what happened that night," she said."

Knox's mother: "Mellas said Guede "continues to lie about Amanda and that's unfortunate."

CNN

It is indeed unfortunate when two people know that an innocent man is in jail and they choose to remain silent.

 

[otto]

"Monday's hearing marked the last time witnesses will be heard in the appeal before a review of DNA evidence used to convict Knox and Sollecito is completed on Thursday and examined by the court at the next hearing on 25 July."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/27/amanda-knox-appeal-sex-change

 

[SMK]

I didn't realize you couldn't get out the front door if it was locked and you didn't have a key. Makes the finding Meredith's keys much easier for me to believe.

Yes, and this is what made Hendry's "Lone Wolf scenario" analysis so believable. He pictures Guede in the bathroom, hearing Meredith come in early and interrupt his robbery in progress. Too afraid to move, he sits there wondering what to do, then rises without flushing the toilet as he does not want to alert MK with any sound. Trying to make a swift exit via the front door, he is horrified to find it locked and the key gone (MK has taken it to her room fro the night). Had it been a normal door, I am convinced he would have quickly exited, as he had not been seen. Trapped, he went to confront MK, and the rest is history.

 

[otto]

This review of the hearing is interesting: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/amanda-knoxs-appeal-key-witness-takes-stand-13937307

The reporter, while trying to sanitize Knox, inadvertently turns Knox into a liar yet again. She claims that Knox said that the "this is the first time" she had been in the room with Guede, but we know that Knox had met Guede, and been in the same room with him, on several occasions prior to the murder.

 

[SMK]

Sorry. I didn't realize you didn't know. It is a major fact of the case.

Yes, and I posted an explanation of this to emyr.

 

[otto]

Yes, and this is what made Hendry's "Lone Wolf scenario" analysis so believable. He pictures Guede in the bathroom, hearing Meredith come in early and interrupt his robbery in progress. Too afraid to move, he sits there wondering what to do, then rises without flushing the toilet as he does not want to alert MK with any sound. Trying to make a swift exit via the front door, he is horrified to find it locked and the key gone (MK has taken it to her room fro the night). Had it been a normal door, I am convinced he would have quickly exited, as he had not been seen. Trapped, he went to confront MK, and the rest is history.

I don't understand the key story. Why is it assumed that there was a key in the door and that Meredith took it to her room?

 

[SMK]

This review of the hearing is interesting: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/amanda-knoxs-appeal-key-witness-takes-stand-13937307

The reporter, while trying to sanitize Knox, inadvertently turns Knox into a liar yet again. She claims that Knox said that the "this is the first time" she had been in the room with Guede, but we know that Knox had met Guede, and been in the same room with him, on several occasions prior to the murder.

Amanda said clearly in her statement that the only time "Guede, Knox, Sollecito" had been in the same room was "in court". Amanda is not accountable to these half-deaf journalists.

 

[SMK]

I don't understand the key story. Why is it assumed that there was a key in the door and that Meredith took it to her room?

It is not assumed, it is the truth. She either took it to her room, or put it away in the kitchen -- the main thing, Guede was trapped. It was the kind of door (I once had one) that does not stay closed unless you turn the key and lock it. Which she had , as she was ready to retire, and thought she was alone.

 

[otto]

Amanda said clearly in her statement that the only time "Guede, Knox, Sollecito" had been in the same room was "in court".

That is what she said in her statement, but ABC news has modified that statement, changed it to say that she has never been in the same room as Guede ever in her life. It is a very normal (for this case), irresponsible reporting and omission of facts that could be perceived as intending to influence people into believing that Knox is innocent.

 

[otto]

It is not assumed, it is the truth. She either took it to her room, or put it away in the kitchen -- the main thing, Guede was trapped. It was the kind of door (I once had one) that does not stay closed unless you turn the key and lock it. Which she had , as she was ready to retire, and thought she was alone.

Where did you read that it was normal for a key to be permanently located in the front door of the cottage?

If, according to some theory, Guede climbed in the window, why couldn't he climb out the window? How could he be trapped if he was comfortable scaling 3.5 meter, sheer walls?

 

[SMK]

Where did you read that it was normal for a key to be permanently located in the front door of the cottage?

If, according to some theory, Guede climbed in the window, why couldn't he climb out the window? How could he be trapped if he was comfortable scaling 3.5 meter, sheer walls?

1. I read it so many times and in so many places back in '08, that I can no longer recall.

2. Because either he : a. staged the break in after his crime of attempted rape/murder, and thus at the start there was NO exit OR b. was heading toward the broken window, and ran into Meredith.

 

[SMK]

Just keeping track:

On June 30, a key date for this trial, reports of crucial DNA evidence from forensics specialists will be submitted to the court and a reconvening is scheduled for July 25 to hear both prosecution and defense claims on the new findings.

In September, the concluding arguments will be made and the verdict is expected to be reached by October.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/amanda-knox-and-ex-boyfriend-are-the-killers-says-convict-51624/

 

[SMK]

Nadeau's coverage on The Daily Beast:

Neither the defense nor prosecution wanted Guede to say too much in court. He is not exactly a credible witness. Unlike Knox and Sollecito, whose forensic link to the crime is highly contentious, Guede’s DNA was prevalent throughout the murder room, and his feces were found in the apartment toilet.

But he is the only person to ever admit being in the house the night Kercher was killed, and therefore his testimony is considered vital in this phase of the process. Before his arrest, he told a friend during a monitored Skype conversation that Knox was not involved in the murder. Then he changed his story and said the two were at the house and that he presumed they were the killers.

Credibility issues aside, his placing them in the house on the night of the murder is not exactly something they wanted the jury to hear, so it is even more surprising, then, that Knox’s own lawyer, Carlo Dalla Vedova, pushed Guede to talk about the fateful night. “I know what I know. I saw what I saw,” Guede told the court when pressed for clarification.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/06/27/amanda-knox-appeal-hearing-raffaele-sollecito-waffles.html

 

[otto]

1. I read it so many times and in so many places back in '08, that I can no longer recall.

2. Because either he : a. staged the break in after his crime of attempted rape/murder, and thus at the start there was NO exit OR b. was heading toward the broken window, and ran into Meredith.

My understanding is that because four strangers were renting rooms in a cottage, there were four sets of keys and each set had a bedroom key and front door key. I have never heard that there were additional keys or that a fifth key was routinely left in the front door.

Regardless, if Guede climbed in through the window, he was never trapped and was always free to exit through the window.

"Other than Meredith the key of the apartment was available to Laura ... ; Filomena Romanelli, ... and Amanda Knox had it."

pg 59
Massei Report

The embellished story about an extra key is interesting because first an extra key is imagined, and then an elaborate story is created around its disappearance - why.

 

[OldSteve]

Wow, up to page 16 in this thread... didn't know a new thread had started....

Looks like the fears IIRC expressed by SMK turned out to be true - namely, bringing a jail snitch to open the door so that Rudy could then be called to testify - from there he could point the finger of guilt toward AK/RS...

Something about the way this snitch suddenly came forward really stinks in my opinion!

 

[otto]

Amanda said clearly in her statement that the only time "Guede, Knox, Sollecito" had been in the same room was "in court". Amanda is not accountable to these half-deaf journalists.

I doubt the problem is "half-deaf". It's more likely that reporters have no idea what happened, don't speak Italian and are making up a fairy tale to go along with the party line about Knox being uninvolved in the murder.

 

[otto]

Wow, up to page 16 in this thread... didn't know a new thread had started....

Looks like the fears IIRC expressed by SMK turned out to be true - namely, bringing a jail snitch to open the door so that Rudy could then be called to testify - from there he could point the finger of guilt toward AK/RS...

Something about the way this snitch suddenly came forward really stinks in my opinion!

Sollecito's lawyer brought in Alessi, and it seems that Knox's lawyer brought in the prisoner with the other story. Then, with 5 lying prisoners presenting conflicting stories, there was only one person to sort out what he had told to the prisoners: Guede. Surely the many defense lawyers could have seen this coming. Anyway, the prosecution added Guede to the witness list and he stood behind a letter he wrote in 2010 where he confirmed that Knox and Sollecito were present during the murder. That letter had not previously been entered into trial evidence and Sollecito's lawyers yesterday argued to keep it out ... but they had opened a can of worms with the lying prisoners and so the letter was accepted in evidence. The entire prisoner circus completely backfired.

 

[OldSteve]

Sollecito's lawyer brought in Alessi, and it seems that Knox's lawyer brought in the prisoner with the other story. Then, with 5 lying prisoners presenting conflicting stories, there was only one person to sort out what he had told to the prisoners: Guede. Surely the many defense lawyers could have seen this coming. Anyway, the prosecution added Guede to the witness list and he stood behind a letter he wrote in 2010 where he confirmed that Knox and Sollecito were present during the murder. That letter had not previously been entered into trial evidence and Sollecito's lawyers yesterday argued to keep it out ... but they had opened a can of worms with the lying prisoners and so the letter was accepted in evidence. The entire prisoner circus completely backfired.

Thanks Otto!

So here I am quick to point a finger at the prosecution for
coming up with a scheme to get Rudy on the stand - and low and behold, the defense shoot themselves in their feet!

Wow! Amazing - what in the world were those defense lawyers thinking!