Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[Nova]

There is a complete dinner hour discussion on this thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125994&highlight=fish&page=3

What are the opinions of today's court hearing?

I find pages of discussion of DNA tests there. Was that what was I was supposed to read?

 

[mdana]

I can answer that by saying I thought that since he was a witness, he'd be questioned just like that homeless guy, like FR, like AK, like that half deaf lady, and all the others.

I thought he'd be treated like a new witness. I don't know what the hell that was today.

My interpretation was he not allowed to be cross-examined by the judge by the reports that I read. However, the reporting was so vague I am not really sure what happened today either. Reporting has gotten so awful, WWWW & H seems to have been forgotten.

 

[SMK]

I can answer that by saying I thought that since he was a witness, he'd be questioned just like that homeless guy, like FR, like AK, like that half deaf lady, and all the others.

I thought he'd be treated like a new witness. I don't know what the hell that was today.

Even worse, they had said on IIP how the Defense had been hoping, praying, waiting for this day, this chance to tear Rudy to shreds on the stand. Well, they didn't. :razz:

 

[wasnt_me]

That she did something does not prove she previously "planned" to do it. Nor does it prove she remembered what she did or planned to do 5 days later. And if she did remember something, that doesn't mean she remembered it correctly.

There is simply no logic in the claim that AK has been "proven" to lie about her dinner time on the night of the murder.

That she was mistaken, yes. That she deliberately lied, we don't know.

Being a single person, who doesn't plan meals at all, I find all this planning talk absurd. It's 930pm here and I have not given one thought whatsoever to eating. I might feel hungry later and WISH I had eaten. I might go down there and drum up something to eat at the time. But as for planning it????

I guess that's what I'm going right now. Sort of what AK probably did. Started thinking about it since she didn't have to go to work. I'm thinking about it now because you brought it up. Same type of thing. I'm really not understanding why this is a hard concept to grasp.

Everyone is not alike in thought, deed, or action. I think it's highly absurd to think everyone has a routine, plans, and follows through with the plan.

By Ak's character, we know she is not even a planning type person.

1. she goes off to Italy only knowing rudimentary Italian.
2. She calls MK the night of halloween to see what she's doing on Halloween.
3. She doesn't pay close attention to keeping things clean.
4. She doesn't think to pack a bag to stay the night with RS.
5. She probably didn't brush her teeth everyday.

She's not a planner. Those critical of her just need accept that. Fault her for NOT being a planner, but it's absurd to keep saying what she "Should" have done or "should" be thinking about and use that to make her guilty.

And let's not forget the main reason for eating late or in fact eating twice: being high on weed and getting the munchies.

 

[Allusonz]

My interpretation was he not allowed to be cross-examined by the judge by the reports that I read. However, the reporting was so vague I am not really sure what happened today either. Reporting has gotten so awful, WWWW & H seems to have been forgotten.

:welcome:

hands you a designer straight jacket

 

[wasnt_me]

Isn't there also some issue about whether AK was out and on her way to work when she got the text from PL telling her not to come in?

If so, that might be a minor event that RS would have trouble remembering 18 days later when he wrote the journal entry.

I was confused about that myself, and I thought they were saying she was on her way to work, got the text and turned around and went back to RS's, but then I never read anything like that again and I don't think her testimony says that, either.

 

[mdana]

One more similarity was the demeanor of Randall Adams. He comes across as an unemotional and dispassionate person. He didn't feel any remorse, because he didn't kill anyone!! The prosecution painted him as a sociopath, especially a character known as Dr. Death a state expert who gave the same pat speech at almost every trial he was called. Basically, "this person is a psycopath who will kill again if you don't convict," after meeting with a defendant for 15 minutes. They also used character assassination, because Adams drank alcohol, smoked pot, and was a drifter.

In this case they did the same thing to AK and RS with the drugs, *advertiser censored*, and cartwheels character assassination. Along with the accusation that they didn't show "correct" amount or type of remorse whatever the hell that is.

They did the same thing in the Cameron Todd Willingham case.

 

[Allusonz]

Even worse, they had said on IIP how the Defense had been hoping, praying, waiting for this day, this chance to tear Rudy to shreds on the stand. Well, they didn't. :razz:

They may of been hoping that they could but I believe realistically they knew this was not going to happen. He was brought in to state that he did not state these things to the other inmates and to state that AK and RS committed the crime. He truly could not state anything different without facing additional charges

 

[Nova]

I was confused about that myself, and I thought they were saying she was on her way to work, got the text and turned around and went back to RS's, but then I never read anything like that again and I don't think her testimony says that, either.

I have no idea where to find it now, but I thought the belief that she was on her way to Lumumba's bar was based on the cell phone tower that delivered the text to her phone. (Of course, we've also read that there is considerable overlap of Perugia cell phone towers.)

 

[Allusonz]

Welcome to WS and wow! That is one hell of a debut post!

I'm impressed not just with your knowledge of the case but with the allusions to Christopher Hitchens and Charles I.

I hope you plan to stick around and participate.

P.S. I'm not a girl and I'm not 20, but I wouldn't dream of going out after sleeping (much less to meet my boyfriend's parents) without showering and washing my hair. My husband is the same.

Since AK was scheduled to work late that night, is it possible she didn't originally intend to stay over with RS? I know they had been glued at the hip, but if she was working late and he had nothing special to do, maybe the original plan was for AK to stay at home, and then pack and shower at the cottage in the a.m.

BBM

I have to agree here. It was a short drive to their destination thus it would be conceivable that she would go home where she could shower and get ready for the days events thus not requiring a change of clothing etc

 

[wasnt_me]

:yourock:

I have been lurking on these forums for a little over a month. After today's events, I had to break down and register. This saga is just infuriating to my sense of a logical and rational world of law. I know it does not exist, but every case like this further erodes my misplaced faith (hope?) in justice ultimately prevailing...............
.

:wagon:

I think somewhere in there, you got distaracted off your point, though. You were telling us about inconsistencies in AK's story, but then you got very intent on how inconsistent the MOT report is, that you never returned to that point, it seemed.

I was interested in hearing the other inconsistencies, but Welcome to the maddeness!

 

[SMK]

They may of been hoping that they could but I believe realistically they knew this was not going to happen. He was brought in to state that he did not state these things to the other inmates and to state that AK and RS committed the crime. He truly could not state anything different without facing additional charges

Yes, I can see this now in retrospect. I myself had originally thought he would point the finger at AK and RS (which he did unequivocally today, saying they "killed the marvelous girl") but I made the mistake of reading the IIP forum and a few blogs where many were aflutter with excitement, declaring this to be a brilliant coup on the part of the defense, etc. They acted as though the Defense would so fluster Rudy that it would be clear to all that he had indeed acted alone. Dream on.....

 

[wasnt_me]

otto, thanks for refreshing our memories.

When I first read the Massei Report, I wondered why Massei assumed that the washing of dishes that resulted in the leak took place AFTER that evening's meal. I know Massei reports that sequence; I just don't know how he draws that conclusion.

As mdana points out, some of us do dishes before cooking dinner as well as afterwards.

As mdana also points out, we sometimes speak generally on the phone without thinking our words will become evidence in a murder trial. Did RS mention the leak so as to get off the phone and back to his girlfriend? Did RS say they had eaten, or was that an assumption by his father?

These may seem like a lot of trivial questions, but this "trivia" is being used to put two people in prison for a quarter-century each.

Thanks.

I posted a long time ago when this same thing was rehashed that I am one who must wash dishes BEFORE I cook. IF I cook. And that usually because, being single, I have left cups, small plates for quick meals, coffee cups, spoons to stir coffee etc all over the kitchen counter.

So the once every week or two that I want to make a real meal, yeah, I gotta clean up the kitchen first or there will be NO room on the counter to cook on. Geez, the last time I cooked might have been over a month ago. Besides some little egg sandwich that is. and as of right now, I used both skillets to make my egg sandwiches over the weekend, so now if I want to use a skillet, I have to wash dishes first.

RS is a male college student, who had a maid. So I'm going out on a limb to say he probably left his dishes for her to, and that would mean that he'd have to clean up the kitchen before sponteniously cooking with AK.

I'm just guessing, but again, it's one of those things where people want to stereotype people as all being the exact same and if you deviate from what someone else THINKS your home life is supposed to be like, then that makes you a liar or killer. That is not logical.

 

[mdana]

:yourock:

:wagon:

I think somewhere in there, you got distaracted off your point, though. You were telling us about inconsistencies in AK's story, but then you got very intent on how inconsistent the MOT report is, that you never returned to that point, it seemed.

I was interested in hearing the other inconsistencies, but Welcome to the maddeness!

Are you referring to this passage? If so, that is from the MOT (the first half) not me.

<modsnip>

But Amanda Knox&#8217;s story also has significant inconsistencies.

First, the reason given by Amanda Knox for which she would return to the house in Via della Pergola 7 on the morning of November 2 does not appear credible. She states that she went back home to change her clothes, take a shower and fetch the mop to dry the floor.

Since she knew she and Raffaele had made plans for a trip to Gubbio on November 2nd, she could well have brought the clothes with her that were going to be needed for the next day, and there were no circumstances shown that, occurring and unforeseen, may have given rise to such needs; on the evening of the same November 1st, she had already showered and washed her hair at Raffaele&#8217;s house, and therefore it is hardly credible there is a need to repeat both those actions, and it is not understandable why, in addition, she would have to repeat all this somewhere else and not where she already just had a shower and washed her hair, especially since for the scheduled trip it would have been advisable to save time. (p.85)

http://truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/TheMasseiReport.pdf

First of all, this reminds of the confusion over the colloquial farewell &#8220;see you later&#8221; which in the U.S. means goodbye and until we meet again (indefinite frame), not literally I will see you later that evening, night, etc. (definite time frame). I know in France and other parts of Europe it is customary for many if not the majority to bathe/shower less frequently than in the U.S. The judge finds it unbelievable that a woman would shower/bathe after having showered the day before. This guy does not know U.S. college girls. I know many that showered in the morning and showered again in the evening if they were going out that night. Really, he finds it inconceivable that a young woman that was about to meet her new boyfriend&#8217;s parents for the first time would want to shower after having smoked illegal drugs and had sex the night before? I find this to ludicrous reasoning. He also finds it hard to believe she would want to shower in her own apartment? I find it very much like the behavior that my girlfriends exhibited in college. I also remember in college not utilizing the most efficient time management when we had a holiday road trip. I mean she lost approximately 10 minutes showering in her apartment if they had been able to leave for their trip.

Reading this report, Massei comes across as having a template for how a good young woman should comport herself, and if AK fails in Massei&#8217;s ideal of a young woman her failure to live up to Massei&#8217;s unrealistic representation is portrayed as nefarious.

 

[SMK]

Thanks.

I posted a long time ago when this same thing was rehashed that I am one who must wash dishes BEFORE I cook. IF I cook. And that usually because, being single, I have left cups, small plates for quick meals, coffee cups, spoons to stir coffee etc all over the kitchen counter.

So the once every week or two that I want to make a real meal, yeah, I gotta clean up the kitchen first or there will be NO room on the counter to cook on. Geez, the last time I cooked might have been over a month ago. Besides some little egg sandwich that is. and as of right now, I used both skillets to make my egg sandwiches over the weekend, so now if I want to use a skillet, I have to wash dishes first.

RS is a male college student, who had a maid. So I'm going out on a limb to say he probably left his dishes for her to, and that would mean that he'd have to clean up the kitchen before sponteniously cooking with AK.

I'm just guessing, but again, it's one of those things where people want to stereotype people as all being the exact same and if you deviate from what someone else THINKS your home life is supposed to be like, then that makes you a liar or killer. That is not logical.

I too often load the dishwasher before I can cook.

 

[SMK]

ooooh, just seeing the remarks on YouTube of today's Umbria coverage of the court hearing, someone saying "read the Massei Report, she is guilty as sin, hope she rots in jail"....i think Rudy is the one who is the evil doer....as someone said, the victim lie gasping as he violated her and he it is who does not care for the truth....ugh.....:razz::razz::razz:

 

[wasnt_me]

My interpretation was he not allowed to be cross-examined by the judge by the reports that I read. However, the reporting was so vague I am not really sure what happened today either. Reporting has gotten so awful, WWWW & H seems to have been forgotten.

I don't know. previous reports touted that he'd have to answer questions, but seemingly he really didn't. I remember the judge asked questions of the homeless man, so I assumed he'd do the same with RG. I just don't understand the special treatment. I hear what you're saying. Just disillusioned that the ONLY person who was a witness (and most likely the sole killer) was not grilled like a burnt steak on the stand.

 

[wasnt_me]

Even worse, they had said on IIP how the Defense had been hoping, praying, waiting for this day, this chance to tear Rudy to shreds on the stand. Well, they didn't. :razz:

Talk about false reporting!

I mean, in the interest of justice, I want the truth. If the truth is that RS and AK participated, so be it.

In the interest of the truth, I wanted RG grilled, flipped over, grilled again, left to simmer, and then grilled some more!

 

[wasnt_me]

They may of been hoping that they could but I believe realistically they knew this was not going to happen. He was brought in to state that he did not state these things to the other inmates and to state that AK and RS committed the crime. He truly could not state anything different without facing additional charges

But I surely thought that would open the gate to question him about what happened.

And what happened to the skype call and his friend who participated in the skype call? His statement contridicts what he said in that. The statement he read in court. So I thought surely, surely, surely, he'd be questioned about that. Was he? I don't even know.

 

[SMK]

Talk about false reporting!

I mean, in the interest of justice, I want the truth. If the truth is that RS and AK participated, so be it.

In the interest of the truth, I wanted RG grilled, flipped over, grilled again, left to simmer, and then grilled some more!

Yes, I agree. The truth is what matters, not some team winning. I am not "Team Knox" as some call it. I am on the side of truth. If someone can make me believe once again that Meredith is dead due in large part to AK and RS, then OK, let them be sentenced once more. Perhaps the Defense feels Rudy's reputation preceded him, and that they need not attack him? (I must admit, I was a bit upset to see how refined and handsome and well spoken he appears. If only people would just be all of what they appear to be.......ugh :razz: )