Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

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"The experts also told the court that there was no DNA on Kercher's bra clasp that was recovered from the crime scene six weeks after the murder. Prosecutors had argued that the clasp contained Sollecito's DNA, a devastating piece of evidence that placed him at the scene of the grisly killing.

Before concluding their testimony today, the experts recommended that the bra clasp should be excluded from the case."

http://abcnews.go.com/International...tory?id=14151113&rss=rss-wabc-snippet-7091254

no dna whatsoever?

going back to the planting of the clasp ... I believe the clasp was planted underneath the rug so it could be discovered on video (live). I didn't think it was Stefanoni because she traveled in from out of town that day.. I thought someone put it there for her to discover

but do you believe Stefanoni is capable of fabricating the dna - sort of like Chris H. said about faking the negative controls?

ETA:
By ANDREW POLLACK
“You can just engineer a crime scene,” said Dan Frumkin, lead author of the paper, which has been published online by the journal Forensic Science International: Genetics. “Any biology undergraduate could perform this.” http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18dna.html
 
no dna whatsoever?

going back to the planting of the clasp ... I believe the clasp was planted underneath the rug so it could be discovered on video (live). I didn't think it was Stefanoni because she traveled in from out of town that day.. I thought someone put it there for her to discover

but do you believe Stefanoni is capable of fabricating the dna - sort of like Chris H. said about faking the negative controls?

ETA:
By ANDREW POLLACK
“You can just engineer a crime scene,” said Dan Frumkin, lead author of the paper, which has been published online by the journal Forensic Science International: Genetics. “Any biology undergraduate could perform this.” http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18dna.html

I don't know what to think. I considered that as a possibility up until I realized that they hadn't collected the purse, the jacket, none of that before that same day.
 
I wonder if this is true. I can't believe it!

The independent DNA experts told the court that the investigating team violated numerous protocols for the proper collection of DNA evidence. A ripple of laughter went through the courtroom at one point as the court was shown video of the detectives collecting DNA evidence, and doing the exact opposite of what the experts had just described was the proper method.

:floorlaugh:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-dna-evidence-challenged-experts/story?id=14151113

In addition, the experts presented a catalogue of errors allegedly committed by the prosecution's forensic team, including how the evidence could have been contaminated, the original reports were missing certain data, the DNA was not quantified at times, and how control tests were not used.

Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni, who led the prosecution's forensic investigation, looked uncomfortable during today's testimony. The prosecution will cross examine the two expert witnesses when the appeal hearing resumes on Saturday, July 30.
 
Just read over the Massai report again. (sigh) And was looking over the bathroom and footprint evidence again. The Massai report states that the mixed DNA results from the footprints were also LCN.

I think it's a little weird that Meredith's DNA was found mixed in the footprints in Romanelli's room, but not in all the footprints in the hallway. It seems that you would expect Meredith's DNA to be in the footprints in the hallway, and then fade out in Romanelli's room. Not the other way around. It also does say that there were other peaks present in the footprints.

Does anyone have pictures of the footprints?
 
I don't know what to think. I considered that as a possibility up until I realized that they hadn't collected the purse, the jacket, none of that before that same day.

They hadn't? They collected the purse 46 days later?
 
Yeah, that might be tough. :floorlaugh:

The closest was "Angel Face", but Barbie has since done an about-face.


Really? I did put it on hold at the library. I've seen this name "Barbie" around on websites.
 
16036916_400x240.jpg


Kercher Inquiry: 'Glaring Errors' By Police

Police forensic scientists made a series of glaring errors during the investigation into Meredith Kercher's murder, the appeal trial of accused Amanda Knox has heard.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/knox-appeal-dna-comes-under-spotlight-105541702.html
 
I don't know what to think. I considered that as a possibility up until I realized that they hadn't collected the purse, the jacket, none of that before that same day.

ah, I see what you're saying (about the collection issue) but what about the experts saying "no dna" found on clasp -
isn't there a difference between no dna vs. contaminated dna.

this issue I don't understand.
 
Just read over the Massai report again. (sigh) And was looking over the bathroom and footprint evidence again. The Massai report states that the mixed DNA results from the footprints were also LCN.

I think it's a little weird that Meredith's DNA was found mixed in the footprints in Romanelli's room, but not in all the footprints in the hallway. It seems that you would expect Meredith's DNA to be in the footprints in the hallway, and then fade out in Romanelli's room. Not the other way around. It also does say that there were other peaks present in the footprints.

Does anyone have pictures of the footprints?

A word about the MOT report, I read elsewhere, so it's hearsay, that the report wasn't translated 100% correctly, and on top of that, Massei takes and disregards evidence at his own discretion. He also disseminates it with his own twist (can't think of a better word), so it's very hard to discern fact from Massei's fiction--I mean interpretation--when reading it.
 
ah, I see what you're saying (about the collection issue) but what about the experts saying "no dna" found on clasp -
isn't there a difference between no dna vs. contaminated dna.

this issue I don't understand.

I don't know about that either. I keep reading two different things. One, there is no RS DNA. 2, it's there, but due to contamination.

I personally think it's not even there, but comprised out of mixed aelles that Stephanonie mixed and matched herself to make it appear.
 
On the dirty gloves and bad collections:


[video=youtube;aJpkZ_u5VPM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJpkZ_u5VPM&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
I don't know about that either. I keep reading two different things. One, there is no RS DNA. 2, it's there, but due to contamination.

I personally think it's not even there, but comprised out of mixed aelles that Stephanonie mixed and matched herself to make it appear.

but was it based on deception or ignorance? (both?) I don't understand why basic rules were broken.. was it all bogus to begin with?
I can't figure it out.

from SMK's yahoo article above:
...He also highlighted how instead of putting the clasp into a paper bag it had been placed into a plastic bag adding that the risk of contamination was ''significant'' as a result of how it had been collected.​
 
I don't know what to think, Miley, for real.

I'd hate to say they were railroading her and RS from the start, but dang, we've gotten this far on the unlikely being likely. To know for certain what the intent was, we've gotta go back like I said before to the leader, and his experience with conducting investigations. Mignini being on trial for abuse of office says A LOT, in my opinion. The way he conducted other investigations says a lot, in my opinion. Did she do it on purpose?

She had to have done it on purpose. With mal-intent, I don't know. We see that the footprint analysis was done in the same way. They were suspect centered. We don't even have prints of others who lived in the house for comparison. It was as if they believed RF and LM for not being home, believed their alibis, which I do not know how air tight they were, but still didn't bother to take their footprints just to rule them out as being the ones in the hallway. I'd heard they hadn't even ruled MK's footprints out as possibly being in the hallway.

So when you don't take the inhabitants footprints and DNA just to rule it out as part of the evidence you have found, yes, you're being suspect-centric. When you compare the bloody footprint only to RS and RG, you are being suspect-centric.

Just like in a line-up, people who have nothing to do with the crime are asked to stand there while the victim or witness decides whom they saw at the crime. The footprints should have been the same way. I don't care if Mig himself volunteered his footprint to be slipped in for comparison. It needed to be done to keep the results unbiased.

Same with the DNA. It's possible that she matched up a DNA profile or two, then saw RS's profile and reevaluated her aelles to better match his. We dont know. I can see this happening. She could have thought, Oh, but if I excluded just these few, then "ding, ding ding!" RS's dna appears. That might be her reasoning for saying she didn't do it subject-centrically.

It might be that she did it without his profile first, saw that her results matched no one. Then went back, looked at RS's more (since he's in jail), and saw her "mistakes" in interpreting the DNA. Then she lined it up better with his by editing her results.

That's possible, which is also the reason she probably wanted to hide her files from the defense.

It's possible that she came up with several DNA profiles, scratched her head over it, because it made no sense that all these people had touched MK's bra clasp and she reworked it from there, thinking her first conclusions were errors. Afterward, she sought to hide the effort from the public.

All I can say for sure is that her stuff is wrong and she refused to release the files all the way through to this stage of the appeal. I find it hard to believe that Massei let her get away with that. Glad Hellman did not. Even Micheli severely defends her in RG's report.

My question is, how can they do that? did neither of them see the videos that we saw? Who could both judges have ignored the glaring mistakes in protocol? When you start asking questions like that....things start stinking....

Due to this expert report, the prosecution has become outnumbered. Independent experts that don't have anything to do with the case assert the same thing as the ind. experts appointed by Hellman. Additionally, the defense experts have been screaming the same thing for years. That's two against one, PLUS video and documented evidence that they botched the crime scene and that the experts can't even figure out how she drew her crazy conclusions. How could Hellman deny any of this as the other judges did?
 
but was it based on deception or ignorance? (both?) I don't understand why basic rules were broken.. was it all bogus to begin with?
I can't figure it out.

from SMK's yahoo article above:
...He also highlighted how instead of putting the clasp into a paper bag it had been placed into a plastic bag adding that the risk of contamination was ''significant'' as a result of how it had been collected.​
Well, sure is highly suspicious, isn't it? To make such errors seems more than incompetence.
 
Well, sure is highly suspicious, isn't it? To make such errors seems more than incompetence.

Well, I guess I could have put it as succinctly as this! LOL. I was just saying the exact same thing in like 6 paragraphs! :crazy:

thanks for keeping it simple and to the point, SMK!
 
Well, I guess I could have put it as succinctly as this! LOL. I was just saying the exact same thing in like 6 paragraphs! :crazy:

thanks for keeping it simple and to the point, SMK!
:great: thanks!
 
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