Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[mdana]

From my understanding Sollecito was very close to his degree before his arrest (my understanding he was just about to graduate). I don't know about AK's educational progress. Again what this has to do with innocence or guilt, I am at a loss, since guilty and innocent people get degrees and others do not while incarcerated.

 

[wasnt_me]

Not reliable to you. We will see what the judges say. Same for the shop owner. RG is the new guy. He wasn't part of the first trial.

Rafaelle is the murderer so luminol hits at his house don't seem so strange to me. I guess they got lucky that MK's DNA wasn't found there. Oh wait, it was found.

It might be an interesting defense tactic to show that in regular households you can also find full bare luminol footprints, but for some reason the defense didn't do that. I wonder why?

Probably because Stephanoni finally admitted there was no blood in the luminol? Probably because Stephanoni on the stand admitted that other things besides blood light up luminol?

You say you believe her, so believe her when she said these two things under oath.

 

[wasnt_me]

This is so stupid.

You find luminol spots at a murderers house so full bare luminol footprints at a very bloody crime scene are not important? Yeah right.

It would have surely helped if the defense had proved them. They also could have easily figured out who that guy was that walked barefoot in the girls house if it wasn't RS. They didn't do these things for a very obvious reason.

Another fictional post.

1. wasn't a very blood crime scene. Only the room with the body in it was bloody. The corridor where the footprints were found was not bloody, save for RG's fading prints.

2. Defense has nothing to prove, but they DID figure out whose footprint it was--Rudy's.

 

[otto]

In terms of the RS' DNA "profile" on MK's bra clasp, I have a few questions. And if anyone with any expertise can explain it to my limited understanding I would appreciate it.

I am not a scientific person, and I won't pretend to be one on the internet. My question is excluding the contamination factor, is it a "full" profile? I don't really understand the discussion of alleles and stutter. My understanding is that it can rule out certain people like Amanda Knox and Casey Anthony. However, is there a European DNA profile that would exclude most people that were born and perhaps have multiple generations of ancestors from North America compared to someone that was European? Is it something like the old school days of pre-1990's when the attacker had O+ it didn't really mean too much since approximately 1 in 4 to 1 in 2 had that blood type. However, if it was AB- or B- it was very incriminating since that was closer to a 1 in a 100 chance.

Also with the way Stefanoni did the test with the machine set at testing limits the machine was not designed to perform is it akin to one of those music graphs that show the treble, bass, etc. that may be able to assign a piece of music is heavy metal or rule out bossa nova, but it can't ascertain between Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, or Anthrax?

If this makes no sense I appologize, I am just trying to understand what it means as an extremely ignorant layman.

My understanding is that the DNA was a match to Sollecito. I don't understand what the experts report is all about because the report is in Italian. I don't think anyone here has any expertise in DNA analysis. My music training is limited to classical, so even with the music analogy I'm at a loss. Tomorrow's court hearing will hopefully clarify what's what.

 

[wasnt_me]

She cried when she first learned of it. She said it saddened her. As for the lack of "mourning": I don't think it is really any circumstantial evidence, though, because MK had distanced herself from AK, so it may have been something Knox felt uncomfortable with.

We have no idea if AK mourned or not. And no one can be the judge of the degree of how much mourning is apporpriate. If she'd grieved in public, believe you me, she would have been charged for years to come for faking it.

 

[otto]

From my understanding Sollecito was very close to his degree before his arrest (my understanding he was just about to graduate). I don't know about AK's educational progress. Again what this has to do with innocence or guilt, I am at a loss, since guilty and innocent people get degrees and others do not while incarcerated.

I can't remember anymore but I think that Sollecito completed his undergrad in prison and then went ahead to complete a masters during the last 4 years. What they do in jail has nothing to do with guilt or innocence, but this thread seems more about Knox than the murder of Meredith Kercher, so I thought it was a relevant question.

 

[otto]

Another fictional post.

1. wasn't a very blood crime scene. Only the room with the body in it was bloody. The corridor where the footprints were found was not bloody, save for RG's fading prints.

2. Defense has nothing to prove, but they DID figure out whose footprint it was--Rudy's.

There was blood in Meredith's bedroom, Filomina's bedroom, the small bathroom, the hallway, the living area and the front door area.

 

[otto]

We have no idea if AK mourned or not. And no one can be the judge of the degree of how much mourning is apporpriate. If she'd grieved in public, believe you me, she would have been charged for years to come for faking it.

She mourned in that funny way that isn't the same as regular people.

 

[sherlockh]

This could be. I hope not. But I also hope those who expect to see both convictions overturned do not forget that this is not a done deal.

I really don't know. Maybe it is better not to make any predictions. One thing I do know is that no matter the outcome I will be so happy when all this is over

 

[wasnt_me]

I think, as it currently stands, you could potentially see Amanda stay in jail for murder and Sollecito go free. If the clasp and knife are thrown out, there is nothing besides the fact that he provided an alibi to Amanda, and he was incorrect about waking up at 6 am that morning, to indicate he would have anything to do with the crime. Otto, sherlockh, would you agree with that? If you had to delete the knife and clasp from your memory would there be enough evidence for you to find him guilty in a legal sense? Did I miss something that convicts him?

ETA: Of course, the number one issue would be his testimony that changed on the 6th from: Amanda was with me all night to: Amanda convinced me that this story was true, if you say Amanda left then she must have left.

I've never been precisely sure which story he's talking about. Is it the story of spending the night together or the story of her leaving to go take a shower, and what happened between that time and when he saw her again?

 

[wasnt_me]

In terms of the RS' DNA "profile" on MK's bra clasp, I have a few questions. And if anyone with any expertise can explain it to my limited understanding I would appreciate it.

I am not a scientific person, and I won't pretend to be one on the internet. My question is excluding the contamination factor, is it a "full" profile? I don't really understand the discussion of alleles and stutter. My understanding is that it can rule out certain people like Amanda Knox and Casey Anthony. However, is there a European DNA profile that would exclude most people that were born and perhaps have multiple generations of ancestors from North America compared to someone that was European? Is it something like the old school days of pre-1990's when the attacker had O+ it didn't really mean too much since approximately 1 in 4 to 1 in 2 had that blood type. However, if it was AB- or B- it was very incriminating since that was closer to a 1 in a 100 chance.

Also with the way Stefanoni did the test with the machine set at testing limits the machine was not designed to perform is it akin to one of those music graphs that show the treble, bass, etc. that may be able to assign a piece of music is heavy metal or rule out bossa nova, but it can't ascertain between Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, or Anthrax?

If this makes no sense I appologize, I am just trying to understand what it means as an extremely ignorant layman.

You might visit that view from wilmington blog. he does a fabulous job breaking down what all the DNA means. Also might review the report which someon translated on a blog. I'll try to find the links for you.

http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/

http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot....d-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=7

You gotta search through to find what you need.

 

[emyr]

In terms of the RS' DNA "profile" on MK's bra clasp, I have a few questions. And if anyone with any expertise can explain it to my limited understanding I would appreciate it.

I am not a scientific person, and I won't pretend to be one on the internet. My question is excluding the contamination factor, is it a "full" profile? I don't really understand the discussion of alleles and stutter. My understanding is that it can rule out certain people like Amanda Knox and Casey Anthony. However, is there a European DNA profile that would exclude most people that were born and perhaps have multiple generations of ancestors from North America compared to someone that was European? Is it something like the old school days of pre-1990's when the attacker had O+ it didn't really mean too much since approximately 1 in 4 to 1 in 2 had that blood type. However, if it was AB- or B- it was very incriminating since that was closer to a 1 in a 100 chance.

Also with the way Stefanoni did the test with the machine set at testing limits the machine was not designed to perform is it akin to one of those music graphs that show the treble, bass, etc. that may be able to assign a piece of music is heavy metal or rule out bossa nova, but it can't ascertain between Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, or Anthrax?

If this makes no sense I appologize, I am just trying to understand what it means as an extremely ignorant layman.

A profile consists of 30 peaks. Thanks to PMF we know that Sollecito and Meredith share 12 out of 30 peaks. (This is certain) Of the 18 unique peaks to Sollecito, the experts say you can only look for 15 on a shared profile with Meredith since her very strong peaks would cause a "stutter" in the exact spot and exact peak height you'd expect to find Sollecito's DNA. (I think this is correct. That there were 3 that shouldn't be used.)

The clasp had a mixed profile, consisting of Meredith and others. Meredith's peaks were quite high (600-800 RFU). Then there are a set of 16 peaks that are around 100 RFU in height. Of the 15 unique peaks we are looking for, they match 13.

Then there are many smaller peaks, ranging from 25-75 RFU. 2 of these smaller peaks match the two remaining peaks unique to Sollecito that we are looking for.

Meredith's DNA to the profile is an order of 8 to 1 (her profile is 8 times the size of this profile). The 100 RFU profile is roughly 1.5 times the strength of the other profiles on the clasp. There is at least one profile, possibly two more on the clasp.

We know that a profile under 50 RFU is considered highly probable to come from trace contamination. Is a profile of around 100 RFU's likely to come from trace contamination? I don't know.

 

[emyr]

Yep ... luminol means nothing in the murder investigation of Meredith Kercher ... but oddly, it is widely accepted in courtrooms around the world. Weird huh.

Yes, it definitively proved that the dingo did NOT eat that baby, in fact, her mother tore off some metal from her car and slit that baby's throat...

Or wait. I'm wrong. It convicted an innocent woman. Is THAT why they require confirmatory tests for blood after luminol is used???

Edited to add this cute little face:

 

[wasnt_me]

I was looking at the footprints again. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is number 9 a foot print? because if so, the trial didn't lead directly out of Mk's room. If it's not a footprint, what is it?

 

[wasnt_me]

See the Levis tag on her jeans? I wonder if it was ripped like that during the murder.

 

[emyr]

Sollecito has no alibi for the night of the murder. The things he said he did have been proven untrue. He lied to police. He claims he was with Knox, and she claims she was at the cottage. Sollecito wrote, while in jail, that Meredith's DNA got on his knife because he cut her when she was at his apt., which is a very irregular lie. We have his footprint on the bathmat ... and I'm sure there's plenty more.

So, in answer to your question about whether the only evidence used to convict the murderers is the knife and the clasp ... no, I don't believe that.

So you would still convict Sollecito based on:

1) You think 11pm dinner is a lie.
2) You think sleeping-in alibi is a lie.
3) You think writing in his diary about the knife is a very irregular lie.
4) You think the bloody footprint is a clear indication of his presence.
5) His testimony to the police on the night of the 6th, when told by the police that there was definitive proof placing Amanda at the murder scene that night, his statement that "his previous testimony was a load of rubbish" and that she must have left that night, is conclusive proof of murder.
6) He said he hoped Rudy didn't say "strange things" about him.


If there's more, you're going to have to come up with it and include it. I personally can't think of anything. He'd had maybe 3 conversations total with Meredith so the fact that he wasn't sad about her death doesn't really amount to much.

 

[emyr]

Speaking of Knox, I'm surprised she hasn't made better use of her time in prison. Sollecito managed to do a degree behind bars - a computer degree without a computer. Any thoughts on why Knox hasn't done anything towards her dreams about getting a degree? I realize that all she wants to do now is get married and have babies, but what happened to those aspirations about writing and being a translator?

I thought she'd learned several new languages? French and Chinese? She was trying to earn credits through UW but they have to do it by letter which is a problem. Am I wrong?

 

[otto]

So you would still convict Sollecito based on:

1) You think 11pm dinner is a lie.
2) You think sleeping-in alibi is a lie.
3) You think writing in his diary about the knife is a very irregular lie.
4) You think the bloody footprint is a clear indication of his presence.
5) His testimony to the police on the night of the 6th, when told by the police that there was definitive proof placing Amanda at the murder scene that night, his statement that "his previous testimony was a load of rubbish" and that she must have left that night, is conclusive proof of murder.
6) He said he hoped Rudy didn't say "strange things" about him.


If there's more, you're going to have to come up with it and include it. I personally can't think of anything. He'd had maybe 3 conversations total with Meredith so the fact that he wasn't sad about her death doesn't really amount to much.

What's his alibi? His lack of alibi is certainly a big problem.

 

[otto]

I thought she'd learned several new languages? French and Chinese? She was trying to earn credits through UW but they have to do it by letter which is a problem. Am I wrong?

What's wrong with snail mail? Knox seems quite capable of writing letters to friends, why not complete some courses via correspondance while she's sitting in jail.

 

[Allusonz]

What's wrong with snail mail? Knox seems quite capable of writing letters to friends, why not complete some courses via correspondance while she's sitting in jail.

AK has been continuing her studies via mail. She has also learned a number of languages which of course include Italian but also German which as many know is a very difficult language to learn.

I am not certain where you source your information but the above which I have supplied can easily be googled. Again you are misinformed