Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[Nova]

It's well known that Knox and Sollecito still do not have alibis. The lies they told about the night of the murder were revealed as nothing but lies.

They alibi each other and have always done so except for a few hours one night when they foolishly responded to lies they were told by police.

This is well known.

 

[Nova]

I find it amusing that so many are quick to state that AK and RS lied so much but if you actually take the lies of ILE and add them up it makes them look like saints

Hell, not just ILE. Some WS posters make AK and RS look like George ("I cannot tell a lie") Washington.

 

[Nova]

Individuals that want Knox to be released from prison can say what they want, but that doesn't change the fact that the pair lied regarding their activites on the night of the murder from their first interview onward. For example, they originally stated that they ate dinner as late as 10 or 11 PM and slept until 10 AM. The dinner time that they gave changed three times before Dr Sollecito's testimony proved that dinner was at about 8:30 PM. Neither Knox nor Sollecito offered the correct, truthful time about dinner.

But if they were guilty, surely they would have made sure to get their phony alibi straight.

That they were uncertain about something as trivial as dinner time speaks to their honesty and innocence.

 

[Nova]

Meredith's DNA was found on a knife at Sollecito's apartment.

Uh, no it wasn't. Try to keep up.

 

[Nova]

I beg to differ. As an English speaker who studied German for 7 years it is not that easy. The grammar is extremely contrary to the grammar of English. Spanish and Greek are considered two of the easier languages for English speakers.

Please bare in mind that I have also studied French, Dutch and Japanese and have a BA in Russian so I know my languages.

Do be careful. My son-in-law is Russian and, as you must know, they are very proud their language is so hard to learn. Don't give the impression that German is harder.

 

[Sonata]

Do be careful. My son-in-law is Russian and, as you must know, they are very proud their language is so hard to learn. Don't give the impression that German is harder.

Good gracious no!

It's friggin' impossible! German is about middling, Russian and Japanese are hard and French/Spanish/Greek are easier.

Dutch I'm biased as I have the benefit of having a Dutch mother.

 

[otto]

Until you experience the brutal, unexplained murder of your flatmate in a foreign country at the age of 20, then you cannot possibly comment on the 'normal' mourning process in said situation.

If you have experienced this I am very sorry for your loss, but I would imagine you have been blessed enough for this NOT to be a part of your life.

I get it. In the US, it is normal to party when in mourning. US trials and courts prove this to be true.

The rest of the world understands that this is a normal way to mourn in the United States.
The rest of the world also has a different definition for mourning.

 

[otto]

Each made a statement he or she quickly recanted.

When did they "admit lying to police throughout a murder investigation"?

That's a really wild invention, even for this case.

Knox and Sollecito did not recant the statements they made about the time of dinner ... they were caught out by Dr Sollecito. Knox did not recant the statements she made about Mr Lumumba ... she was caught in the lie by police two weeks after she made the statement.

There was no recanting done by any of the convicted murderers.

 

[Sonata]

I get it. In the US, it is normal to party when in mourning. US trials and courts prove this to be true.

The rest of the world understands that this is a normal way to mourn in the United States.
The rest of the world also has a different definition for mourning.

I've actually lived in England my whole life otto, apart from a year in Russia and have two foreign parents. So what I am saying is not at all US centric.

 

[otto]

I didn't see people mourning like that after Joanna Yeates was murdered. Not one person ... not even the man that murdered her.

 

[Sonata]

I didn't see people mourning like that after Joanna Yeates was murdered. Not one person ... not even the man that murdered her.

Well if Vincent Tabak didn't mourn like that and has CONFESSED to her murder then surely that suggests that if there is a pattern for murderers mourning - Amanda Knox didn't fit it?

People mourn in all different ways. My father was criticised for not attending his Grandmother's funeral despite the fact that she raised him. My partner upon unexpectedly losing his father had a way of mourning that his wife at the time could not understand, and as I am told this ultimately led to their divorce.

You cannot expect everyone to mourn in the same way or that mourning should always be very outward or you will consistently be shocked. It is a deeply personal thing.

ETA: Technically VT didn't confess to her murder, but he did confess to manslaughter.

 

[otto]

Mark Geragos introduced the abnormal grieving as normal when defending Scott Peterson, Ms Anthony's lawyer picked up on it. If we are attributing abnormal grieving to Knox, then she is not in very good company. Ugly coping is what Peterson and Anthony did. Are we saying that Knox was "ugly coping" when she was crass while providing new information to Meredith's friends about how she died, went lingerie shopping right after the murder and blew off the memorial?

 

[Sonata]

Mark Geragos introduced the abnormal grieving as normal when defending Scott Peterson, Ms Anthony's lawyer picked up on it. If we are attributing abnormal grieving to Knox, then she is not in very good company. Ugly coping is what Peterson and Anthony did. Are we saying that Knox was "ugly coping" when she was crass while providing new information to Meredith's friends about how she died, went lingerie shopping right after the murder and blew off the memorial?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'ugly coping'?

 

[otto]

Sonata, can you think of any trial in the UK where ugly coping was used as part of a defence?

 

[Sonata]

Sonata, can you think of any trial in the UK where ugly coping was used as part of a defence?

I am not intimately familiar with many cases. I only became a true crime junky about 2 years ago, so I'm afraid I can't.

 

[otto]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'ugly coping'?

I think Baez said it best when he said that anyone that does the opposite of what is normally accepted by society after the death of a loved one can fall into the realm of ugly coping. Funny thing ... haven't heard that term outside the US, haven't heard that term outside of a murder defence argument. There is a normal human way that people respond to death. That has been established for centuries. All of a sudden, murder trials in the US today introduce this fantastic theory that normal people have completely abnormal reactions to death and murder, but we should view it as normal. We're supposed to believe that behavioral science is suddenly turned on it's head, and the reactions of Knox and Sollecito, right down to blowing off their day trip and sticking around to lie to police, were completely normal.

 

[Sonata]

Ok, no need to define it as I just looked it up.

Ugly Coping was coined by a man name George Bonnano.

"Bonanno coined the phrase "coping ugly" to describe his finding that grief and coping with grief take many forms. Behaviors that may not be healthy ordinarily may be helpful in times of stress, such as self-serving biases" from wikipedia.

So the man who coined the term did so as an example of how grieving can seem counter-intuitive and that it CAN TAKE MANY FORMS. Seems like this is self-explanatory as he obviously didn't mean it as a criticism of those who were seen to be 'ugly coping'.

 

[SMK]

I was talking about my dog who died last year. She drowned in her own blood and her lung was pierced. Most awful thing I ever went through. Completely helpless while she suffered. I just didn't know what the problem was because she'd had a chest xray and the idiot doctor said the lungs were clear.

Oh, that is just awful. So sorry to hear about the poor pooch.

 

[Sonata]

Bonnano actually did research after Katrina about 'ugly coping' and found that 2/3 survivors fell under that category which is linked to general resilience. Only 10% of survivors needed professional mental help.

 

[mdana]

I get it. In the US, it is normal to party when in mourning. US trials and courts prove this to be true.

The rest of the world understands that this is a normal way to mourn in the United States.
The rest of the world also has a different definition for mourning.

Under your hypothesis that would lead to RG and not AK nor RS.