Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[otto]

Take it up with Bonnano. He did the research and coined the term. Not me.

I haven't read this person you reference. I'm merely responding to your post about Hurricane Katrina.

 

[otto]

Well said.

Also I think those of us with experience in such fields are less likely to have an 'abnormal' view on this. It results in a broader spectrum of reference rather than a localised experience within one particular social arena.

Not to overlook the obvious ... that people in mental health industries are more likely to meet a lot of abnormal people, and it would be an error to imply that there's a high percentage of abnormal people in society because of what is encountered in the "sick" population.

 

[Sonata]

I haven't read this person you reference. I'm merely responding to your post about Hurricane Katrina.

My response was that this research exists. If you have questions about the legitimacy of the research or what exactly it involved or if you wish to criticise it that should be directed at Bonnano, not me as the messenger.

 

[Sonata]

Not to overlook the obvious ... that people in mental health industries are more likely to meet a lot of abnormal people, and it would be an error to imply that there's a high percentage of abnormal people in society because of what is encountered in the "sick" population.

Not really. As a psychiatrist yes. But not as a psychotherapist. That just entails finding out more about what people are going through or experiencing. It involves being a confidante. So the information you get is more personal, but the demographic is quite broad.

 

[Sonata]

In addition, as a member of the Health Professionals Council you are acutely aware of research in mental health and most likely have conducted a fair amount yourself or at least have written about it. So you are also privy to the more general observation of aspects of human behaviour, not just the one-to-one client information.

 

[otto]

<modsnip>
<modsnip>. We are aware that Mark Geragos argued ugly coping with Scott Peterson and Jose Baez argued the same with Casey Anthony. Now we hear it in connection with Knox. What is one to think? Is Knox to be proppred up beside Peterson and Anthony in the Museum of Ugly Coping? That ugly coping is the norm and it's just coincidence that we, and everyone we know, has never encountered it? I'm sorry, but partying hard with props after a murder is twisted.

 

[Sonata]

<modsnip>. We are aware that Mark Geragos argued ugly coping with Scott Peterson and Jose Baez argued the same with Casey Anthony. Now we hear it in connection with Knox. What is one to think? Is Knox to be proppred up beside Peterson and Anthony in the Museum of Ugly Coping? That ugly coping is the norm and it's just coincidence that we, and everyone we know, has never encountered it? I'm sorry, but partying hard with props after a murder is twisted.

When did AK party hard after the murder?

The only reference I have heard to her partying at all was the pizza party... hardly hardcore.

 

[otto]

My response was that this research exists. If you have questions about the legitimacy of the research or what exactly it involved or if you wish to criticise it that should be directed at Bonnano, not me as the messenger.

I'm only saying that holding up some stat from post-hurricane Katrina and trying to make some generalization about how people react to murder in their home does not compute. Ugly coping after a hurricane has nothing to do with murder.

 

[Sonata]

I'm only saying that holding up some stat from post-hurricane Katrina and trying to make some generalization about how people react to murder in their home does not compute. Ugly coping after a hurricane has nothing to do with murder.

I only referenced this research because you brought up ugly coping, and since I had to gain an understanding of it, I went to the father of the term to look into his research. To me, that makes it relevant.

ETA: Sorry otto, I'm ignorant on this... what does props mean in this context?

 

[otto]

Not really. As a psychiatrist yes. But not as a psychotherapist. That just entails finding out more about what people are going through or experiencing. It involves being a confidante. So the information you get is more personal, but the demographic is quite broad.

And that broad demographic might lead to the erroneious conclusion that a higher percentage of society are like that ... abnormal .. hopefully not leading to the error that it's normal to be abnormal.

 

[mdana]

Not to overlook the obvious ... that people in mental health industries are more likely to meet a lot of abnormal people, and it would be an error to imply that there's a high percentage of abnormal people in society because of what is encountered in the "sick" population.

Neither I nor my parents worked in the mental health field, just garden variety ICUs and ORs. It was a cross-section of the general population.

 

[otto]

I only referenced this research because you brought up ugly coping, and since I had to gain an understanding of it, I went to the father of the term to look into his research. To me, that makes it relevant.

How does this ugly coping apply to someone like Ms Anthony versus Knox? It seems they both have it ... according to arguments put forth to defend their behavior.

 

[otto]

When did AK party hard after the murder?

The only reference I have heard to her partying at all was the pizza party... hardly hardcore.

I was waiting for that. Knox was callous and cold from the minute others discovered the murder onward ... before too.

 

[Sonata]

And that broad demographic might lead to the erroneious conclusion that a higher percentage of society are like that ... abnormal .. hopefully not leading to the error that it's normal to be abnormal.

Why would a broad demographic give you a misleading conception of what is atypical?

A broad demographic is the ONLY way to ensure this does not happen. Am I wrong?

 

[Sonata]

How does this ugly coping apply to someone like Ms Anthony versus Knox? It seems they both have it ... according to arguments put forth to defend their behavior.

The point is it shouldn't apply to one versus another. Any method of coping is of that person and should not be relevant to another.

 

[Sonata]

I was waiting for that. Knox was callous and cold from the minute others discovered the murder onward ... before too.

You didn't actually answer my question. When did she party hard after the murder?

If you were waiting for it, you should be able to give an answer promptly.

 

[mdana]

Otto, I must say that your insistence on everyone being 'normal' in order to be believed or trusted makes me wonder how realistic your worldview can be, and how self-aware you are.

I do not mean this as an attack. I do not consider myself 'normal' as I don't believe such a thing exists. It is all relative. I would be shocked if anyone on this board has never been called abnormal at some point, or has never wondered that a thought or behaviour of theirs may be abnormal or odd. This is exactly how bullying persists; the extreme belief that someone is not 'normal' and should be punished.

We do try not to attack the person here. We are aware that Mark Geragos argued ugly coping with Scott Peterson and Jose Baez argued the same with Casey Anthony. Now we hear it in connection with Knox. What is one to think? Is Knox to be proppred up beside Peterson and Anthony in the Museum of Ugly Coping? That ugly coping is the norm and it's just coincidence that we, and everyone we know, has never encountered it? I'm sorry, but partying hard with props after a murder is twisted.

Sonata is not attacking you, most people would consider it communication which means a give and take on perspectives. Although, I can't vouch for the moderators here who err on the side of caution in most instances.

 

[otto]

Think about it. You're a 20 year old woman living in Perugia for a few weeks and you arrive home to find your front door wide open. You think it's wrong, but convince yourself it's okay. You go into your house, knowing that the front door was wide open, convincing yourself that it's normal, looking around to see who is home - who left the door open. You think maybe someone is taking out the garbage so you wait to see. No one else is there. Do you then decide your're not sure what happened, so you'll have a shower alone at home (even though you just had one 10 hours ago) when the front door was wide open and no one was home ... but that wasn't how you left it ... and you were the last person that was supposed to be there?

Is that "ugly coping" too, or is that just Amelie being Amanda?

 

[otto]

You didn't actually answer my question. When did she party hard after the murder?

If you were waiting for it, you should be able to give an answer promptly.

I know what you mean! I'm still waiting to hear the alibi.

 

[otto]

Why would a broad demographic give you a misleading conception of what is atypical?

A broad demographic is the ONLY way to ensure this does not happen. Am I wrong?

Why would anyone think that because there was ugly coping after Hurricane Katrina, it means that there is a higher incidence of ugly coping after the discovery of a murder in the home? There is no connection.