Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[emyr]

What's his alibi? His lack of alibi is certainly a big problem.

So you would convict him on:
1) You think 11pm dinner is a lie.
2) You think sleeping-in alibi is a lie.
3) You think writing in his diary about the knife is a very irregular lie.
4) You think the bloody footprint is a clear indication of his presence.
5) His testimony to the police on the night of the 6th, when told by the police that there was definitive proof placing Amanda at the murder scene that night, his statement that "his previous testimony was a load of rubbish" and that she must have left that night, is conclusive proof of murder.
6) He said he hoped Rudy didn't say "strange things" about him.
7) His computer records showing he watched a movie ended at 9:10pm. Then there is another record at 1am, and another record showing he played music at around 6 am. His other computer drive was fried. The gaps in these records gives him time to be at the murder scene so he has no alibi for the night of the murder.

 

[SMK]

Court will resume on Aug. 27 with more testimony from prosecution.

 

[sherlockh]

And that was the end of the independent experts report. Wiped off the table by the head of the Italian Police Scientific Unit in a letter read out loud by the judge Hellmann himself.

Contamination in the lab ruled out by the independents themselves. And even they couldn't come up with a minimal amount of DNA needed for a reliable test. In other words, the knife is a done deal and we can forget about Knox.

Then looking at Sollecito. I am not sure what he can still accomplish. Confess maybe and plead for a reduction? Doubtful. Stefanoni has been granted final say by the judges. Protests by the defense were overruled...ouch.

 

[emyr]

The fact that the machines had been sitting idle for 6 days is a pretty big deal. That makes the scenario of contamination harder to believe.

Edited to add: The fact that it is now agreed that the knife was never cleaned confuses me. If it was never cleaned then how can it possibly be the murder weapon? There must be something lost in translation here.

 

[SMK]

And that was the end of the independent experts report. Wiped off the table by the head of the Italian Police Scientific Unit in a letter read out loud by the judge Hellmann himself.

Contamination in the lab ruled out by the independents themselves. And even they couldn't come up with a minimal amount of DNA needed for a reliable test. In other words, the knife is a done deal and we can forget about Knox.

Then looking at Sollecito. I am not sure what he can still accomplish. Confess maybe and plead for a reduction? Doubtful. Stefanoni has been granted final say by the judges. Protests by the defense were overruled...ouch.

Well, all I can say is, this is what had me worried when all were declaring "game over", and the convictions overturned as a done deal. Time will tell now.....Nothing is certain....

 

[sherlockh]

Well, all I can say is, this is what had me worried when all were declaring "game over", and the convictions overturned as a done deal. Time will tell now.....Nothing is certain....

That is exactly why I am declaring "game over" now. As you can see this time the media doesn't follow. Oh well, it is all so obvious. To me at least

 

[SMK]

In some of the pictures, Knox looks quite upset. Of course the prosecution and police had to have their say. I don't know what Aug. 27 will be about; I suppose a continuation. Then 2 weeks later, roughly, the verdict. I hope the supporters of Knox at IIP will not be too sure of themselves; it is bad luck. http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Amanda+Knox/Amanda+Knox+Continues+Appeal+Over+Meredith/KWUhaATPFVg

 

[SMK]

That is exactly why I am declaring "game over" now. As you can see this time the media doesn't follow. Oh well, it is all so obvious. To me at least

Well, it is never, ever good luck for either side to declare "game over". Learned that with the Casey Anthony case. After the prosecution's closing remarks, all said "Death Penalty" - OK, she is free as a bird now. I think no one knows what Judge Hellman or the jury are really thinking now.

 

[sherlockh]

Well, it is never, ever good luck for either side to declare "game over". Learned that with the Casey Anthony case. After the prosecution's closing remarks, all said "Death Penalty" - OK, she is free as a bird now. I think no one knows what Judge Hellman or the jury are really thinking now.

I don't believe in luck. This is not a game.

 

[SMK]

I don't believe in luck. This is not a game.

Luck need not apply only to games. "Never halloo until you are out of the woods" is good advice. How can we know what Hellmann and the jury will do?

 

[SMK]

I don't think we can know, and the European press does not indicate, which side Hellman will come down on:

Knox DNA evidence claims contestedSaturday, 30 July 2011 PERUGIA, ITALY

Prosecutors at Amanda Knox's appeal trial have battled it out with independent forensic experts who say some of the key DNA evidence used to convict the American student of murdering her British room-mate was unreliable and possibly contaminated.
Prosecutor Manuela Comodi sought to undermine the experts' conclusions and show that the forensic evidence used to convict Knox could stand.

The experts - who were appointed by the court to review the evidence and the procedures used to obtain it - maintain that the original investigation was marked by some glaring errors. They have mentioned more than 50, including the wearing of dirty gloves in collecting evidence.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...aces-appeal-trial-16030099.html#ixzz1TbWBqGhB

OK, here is the other side responding, but where does it say which side Hellmann and the jury will tip toward???:waitasec:

"There is a complete genetic profile, but it's not reliable," testified Carla Vecchiotti, one of the court-appointed experts. "We don't know if Meredith's DNA was on it or not," Ms Vecchiotti said. Ms Vecchiotti and her partner in the review, Stefano Conti, are forensic experts from La Sapienza University in Rome.

Ms Comodi insisted that the genetic profile found on the blade should not be thrown out. She argued that no amount of contamination could have led to Miss Kercher's DNA being on the blade. Miss Kercher never went to Sollecito's house.

The appeals court on Saturday allowed the police chief who conducted the original investigation, Patrizia Stefanoni, to take the stand, granting a prosecutors' request. The experts' strong criticism of the investigation methods led to a letter of protest by forensic police, which was read in court by the presiding judge. Piero Angeloni, head of the Italian police forensic unit, rejected the accusations, which he said hurt the image of police and undermined their work.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...aces-appeal-trial-16030099.html#ixzz1TbXX7dJR

 

[Malkmus]

And that was the end of the independent experts report. Wiped off the table by the head of the Italian Police Scientific Unit in a letter read out loud by the judge Hellmann himself.

Contamination in the lab ruled out by the independents themselves. And even they couldn't come up with a minimal amount of DNA needed for a reliable test. In other words, the knife is a done deal and we can forget about Knox.

Then looking at Sollecito. I am not sure what he can still accomplish. Confess maybe and plead for a reduction? Doubtful. Stefanoni has been granted final say by the judges. Protests by the defense were overruled...ouch.

I think you're greatly exaggerating the letter read out-loud in court. It simply stated that the forensics team goes through 4 months training and they've never been criticized like this before. Not sure how you can interpret that as "wiping" the experts' report away.

I also haven't seen anything claiming the knife is now suddenly reliable evidence. Perhaps you can cite what you're referring to specifically.

 

[SMK]

I think you're greatly exaggerating the letter read out-loud in court. It simply stated that the forensics team goes through 4 months training and they've never been criticized like this before. Not sure how you can interpret that as "wiping" the experts' report away.

I also haven't seen anything claiming the knife is now suddenly reliable evidence. Perhaps you can cite what you're referring to specifically.

I agree. Hellman read their protest, as a chance for them to respond to the 2 independent experts. Where is the indication that Hellman has chosen one side over the other? They have each spoken - it is for the Judge and Jury to decide which to believe. Casey Anthony was declared dead in the water after the prosecution gave a thunderous closing. It amounted to nothing. Time will tell......

 

[sherlockh]

I think you're greatly exaggerating the letter read out-loud in court. It simply stated that the forensics team goes through 4 months training and they've never been criticized like this before. Not sure how you can interpret that as "wiping" the experts' report away.

I also haven't seen anything claiming the knife is now suddenly reliable evidence. Perhaps you can cite what you're referring to specifically.

JMO. He sent the letter, the letter was read out loud. The letter said a little bit more than just not criticized before. It also says they follow protocol just fine and are up to date with their equipment, etc. They also say they do thousands of investigations a year. In other words, he doesn't agree with the report, and indicates that if the court is really going to make any use of it, they might as well open the gates of all Italian prisons. The report went over board in its analysis IMO. Should have been much more balanced and less personal.

Two important points regarding the knife were successfully countered by Comodi. The small amount of DNA and possible contamination in the lab. What else is going to be problematic you think for the test results? I think these 2 were the main factors.

 

[SMK]

JMO. He sent the letter, the letter was read out loud. The letter said a little bit more than just not criticized before. It also says they follow protocol just fine and are up to date with their equipment, etc. They also say they do thousands of investigations a year. In other words, he doesn't agree with the report, and indicates that if the court is really going to make any use of it, they might as well open the gates of all Italian prisons. The report went over board in its analysis IMO. Should have been much more balanced and less personal.

Two important points regarding the knife were successfully countered by Comodi. The small amount of DNA and possible contamination in the lab. What else is going to be problematic you think for the test results? I think these 2 were the main factors.

How can you be sure that Hellman's reading of the letter aloud means he has discounted the independent experts' report? He may have, but how did he indicate this? :waitasec:

 

[Malkmus]

JMO. He sent the letter, the letter was read out loud. The letter said a little bit more than just not criticized before. It also says they follow protocol just fine and are up to date with their equipment, etc. They also say they do thousands of investigations a year. In other words, he doesn't agree with the report, and indicates that if the court is really going to make any use of it, they might as well open the gates of all Italian prisons. The report went over board in its analysis IMO. Should have been much more balanced and less personal.

Two important points regarding the knife were successfully countered by Comodi. The small amount of DNA and possible contamination in the lab. What else is going to be problematic you think for the test results? I think these 2 were the main factors.

A letter generalizing how ILE always follows protocol does not trump video and citations of the more than 50 violations Stefanoni and her team made. The experts report has made clear the problems underlying the LCN DNA found on the knife and the poor handling and collection of the bra clasp. As others have stated, both sides have spoken and we'll have to wait and see who the judge and jury believe. I'll take an unbiased report over the prosecution or defense any day.

 

[wasnt_me]

I have come across Halkides quite often and in the past have found him very informative. However, on this issue I have found his writing very obtuse and too oriented towards a reader with a much higher level of understanding of the concepts than an average person of normal intelligence.

A person with little to no background on these ideas and concepts need analogies or some form of reference. That is lacking in all his postings on these findings. It reads too inside baseball for me.

Well, I think he also posts on that JREF board about this case, and he discusses it in that forum. So you might be able to ask him questions over there.

Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case - JREF Forum

If it's the same guy. I thought it was, since the poster on that board said he was a biochemist.

 

[Malkmus]

Well, I think he also posts on that JREF board about this case, and he discusses it in that forum. So you might be able to ask him questions over there.

Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case - JREF Forum

If it's the same guy. I thought it was, since the poster on that board said he was a biochemist.

Yes, Chris Halkides is Halides1 on JREF, and he's very knowledgeable about his profession.

 

[SMK]

So now I have it straight:
Aug 27 - closing arguments
Sep 15 - verdict

I do not know how the prosecution, responding as is normal to the independent experts' report in open court, has wiped that report away. It is fitting and proper that both sides declare their views on the collection of evidence. Judge Hellman and the jury will weigh all in the balance. To me, this is still very up in the air. ETA: I think Judge Hellman is being fair. In over-ruling the defense objections, and allowing the prosecution to speak its side, he is maintaining objectivity and fairness. It would come in on appeal if he did not. But which side has convinced him, he cannot and will not let on.

 

[wasnt_me]

Live tweets from the hearing:

http://twitter.com/#!/dougbremner



http://translate.google.com/transla...30/t_01_04_2011-07-30_130607755.html?ultimora

Thanks, and is it possible to get back on topic, instead of talking about mourning? Thanks!