Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[Malkmus]

<modsnip>

Raystar, would you like to discuss the reasons for thinking so?

 

[sherlockh]

Actually it does. Your skin is constantly exfoliating and your skin cells are probably all over your bed and in dust on the floor. I'm more interested in knowing who the unknown DNA profiles belong to. Do you have any idea?

No idea. The defense tries to throw a whole bunch of objections on the table during the appeal and I certainly don't just accept it as fact. Whether there actually are unknown DNA profiles and the importance of that remains to be seen. So if you don't mind, I rather just sit back and wait till this comes up (if it ever comes up) during the appeals.

 

[Allusonz]

Lol...of course..you can only bleed from cuts on your body

If she was hit in the nose and suffered a nose bleed, that required the amount of washing off as you are attempting to state would be required, why in your opinion considering the number of samples taken from MK's room, hallway, and bathroom would only one drop of blood of hers be found?

A nosebleed does not just stop like a water tap. You have also stated in a previous post that if they sprayed luminol in your home no DNA/agents would react to it.

Why are you so certain of this? I ask as my mother was a perfectionist, had people come in to clean regularily, yet when luminol was sprayed it lit up in various spots like a neon light. Do you equate a clean home as being DNA free? This of course would include things such as your vents, furnace/AC etc

 

[Malkmus]

No idea. The defense tries to throw a whole bunch of objections on the table during the appeal and I certainly don't just accept it as fact. Whether there actually are unknown DNA profiles and the importance of that remains to be seen. So if you don't mind, I rather just sit back and wait till this comes up (if it ever comes up) during the appeals.

By all means. This is more or less the same stance I've taken as well. Let's wait and see what transpires. You seem to want to take what the DNA experts say rather seriously, so I hope that includes the ones that have no stake in either side...

 

[Allusonz]

I should do the same. I keep writing when I am clearly too exhausted to do so. My last post is a tired mess.

In any case, to the rest of you: Is there truly no sign of clean-up? Even in the bathroom?

For my "presumption of guilt" scenario, I have to be operating off the idea that both Amanda and Raffaelle have all the facts. If they have all the facts (they know they showered there, stepped in blood there, that Sollecito touched Meredith's bra) then... the result is very convoluted.

The time of death, if they did it, has to be several hours after 9pm. Preferably around 11:30 pm (to have time to leave the evidence, dump the phones, and also to work themselves up into a sexual murderous frenzy). Their initial alibi would focus on how to make certain they were not there around that time. They wouldn't make up lies to explain any evidence of a cover up in the hallway because there was no cover up in the hallway...

Honestly, when I heard about this case when I started I thought it was pre-meditated (turning off their cell phones), which goes farther to explain the evidence collected. But since there is no way it was pre-meditated (both were supposed to be doing something else the night of the murder), then the evidence becomes much more difficult to fit into the correct scenario. The facts as presented really needs a clean-up to have taken place at the cottage. In the absence of the clean-up, we have a very strange story of toting a mop around everywhere.

Oh yikes emyr. Your post made perfect sense. I was merely making the observation that no matter how I looked at the prosecutions hypothesis it simply did not add up the more I looked at it. I am terribly sorry for not making myself clearer last night and apologize

 

[Malkmus]

Here I am trying to get ready for bed, yet it's hard to get rest knowing that Perugia is just waking up and getting ready for quite the showdown in just a couple hours...

 

[sherlockh]

You hold your head back, pinch your nose and feel your way to a rag or kleenex
yeah, I'm not buying the whole karate kid kick --

Sure, or if you don't have time to hold your head back and are in a rush for 'some reason' then you quickly grab a q-tip, stuff it up your nose and get the hell out of Dodge.

Or the bleeding didn't stop and she followed procedure:
http://www.andorrapediatrics.com/ap_folders/hand-outs/knowledge/nosebleeds.htm

If the nosebleed does not stop, use salt water nose drops and squeeze again. Use a Q-tip and coat the cotton tip with Vaseline. Insert the Q-tip into the nose only as far as the cotton tip and coat the inside lining of the nose.

A jar of Vaseline was found on the crime scene...mmhh...

 

[Allusonz]

No fact at all. During the trials the DNA expert pointed out that several mixed DNA spots consisted of both MK and AK's blood. I don't exactly which spots, and if it was the one in the footprint or not, but it certainly was discussed during the trials.

<modsnip>. Sure AK's smear (not drop) of blood right on top of the water tap, in plain sight, can not be dated. <modsnip>, if that is not suspicious then nothing is. JMO.

If she is such an expert why are so many "other worldwide experts" not agreeing with her. There is IMO a fundamental error in reasoning here. Even the Italian experts are calling her out so it cannot even be blamed on them not being Italian. How many experts have stated that her protocols/procedures are not in error?

 

[milliac]

@ milliac

:welcome:

gives you a designer straight jacket for this case

Thanks! I spent my weekend reading "murder in Italy". It does seem to be pro defense, and at this point I tend to lean not guilty. Where can I start to see evidence myself?

Having lived in Seattle area for 5 years, I think AK was very misunderstood in a different culture. I now live 2 hours North, but many of the same type of liberal culture and mentality here, just on a smaller scale.

I really laughed during parts of this book, and the prosecution's theory seems so unbelievably ridiculous. Anyway, I am still on a good place believing their innocence, as the law asks us to presume. Maybe I should read a pro prosecution book now. Any suggestions?

 

[sherlockh]

By all means. This is more or less the same stance I've taken as well. Let's wait and see what transpires. You seem to want to take what the DNA experts say rather seriously, so I hope that includes the ones that have no stake in either side...

Yes, good plan. Of course I accept whatever comes out of the trials. What else am I supposed to do?

 

[Allusonz]

The court is wasting its time and money trying to free this killer. She has been convicted. I believe Amanda and her boyfriend know they are the reason for this young woman's death.
I hope she stays where she is at!

I as well have to ask what evidence that has not been disproved to date in your mind makes her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? I see so many that post these things but I am still looking for those very elusive concrete facts that prove she did it

 

[SMK]

Here I am trying to get ready for bed, yet it's hard to get rest knowing that Perugia is just waking up and getting ready for quite the showdown in just a couple hours...

I know....wish they were not hours ahead of us.........:countsheep:

 

[RayStar]

I think it was that you said the court was "wasting time and money trying to free a killer"---it sort of irritated, because 1. this appeal is her due under Italian law and 2. many intelligent people believe she was wrongly convicted. Wrongful convictions happen all the time. Casey Anthony was NOT convicted, and yet millions are screaming that she OUGHT to have been. So we are saying Knox ought NOT to have been.

No, I stand by my post the court is wasting its time and money because she is GUILTY even though this process must proceed. <modsnip>??? Appeals are given and most convictions I have seen are not overturned. Don't know about the Italian courts and could care less as I live in the USA. Amanda is guilty as she was rightly convicted. No wrong conviction there. Casey was not convicted. People can scream till the moon turns blue it won't change the verdict of not guilty for Casey. Besides the hollers weren't members of the jury. Also, the we you mention were not on killer Amanda's jury either. Aren't there people still whooping and hollering about Jesus Christ doing something sinful? Can't stop that.

 

[Malkmus]

No, I stand by my post the court is wasting its time and money because she is GUILTY even though this process must proceed. <modsnip>??? Appeals are given and most convictions I have seen are not overturned. Don't know about the Italian courts and could care less as I live in the USA. Amanda is guilty as she was rightly convicted. No wrong conviction there. Casey was not convicted. People can scream till the moon turns blue it won't change the verdict of not guilty for Casey. Besides the hollers weren't members of the jury. Also, the we you mention were not on killer Amanda's jury either. Aren't there people still whooping and hollering about Jesus Christ doing something sinful? Can't stop that.

Raystar, I hope you stick around for the developments in this case. I'd still like to know what evidence you find most compelling for her guilt. Also, remember it's not just Amanda Knox, but Rafaelle Sollecito who is on trial.

 

[Nova]

Yes, of course it came from her nose. The water tap is right under your nose if you are washing your hands. So what do you do to stop the nosebleed? You grab a q-tip. The prosecutions theory fits perfectly together, even to the smallest details.

The blood on the water tap is strong supporting evidence and points directly at AK being the murderer. Maybe you know many people with blood on the tap but I certainly don't. And now there is blood and a bloody murder. Really what are the chances? I am not sure what is your point. Maybe we are agreeing after all

Um, I have quite a bit of trouble with nose bleeds here in the dry desert heat.

It would never occur to me to treat one with a Q-tip. Even now that you've suggested it, I can't imagine how that would work.

 

[RayStar]

I as well have to ask what evidence that has not been disproved to date in your mind makes her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? I see so many that post these things but I am still looking for those very elusive concrete facts that prove she did it

In your mind do you realize she is a convicted KILLER. That's on paper not in my mind. ok This is a message board not a fact sheet. Opinions Opinions

 

[Allusonz]

I was just stating what was said during the trials. Skin that just falls off does not contain any DNA, but I understand you don't believe a word that DNA expert says

If you truly thought about this statement, and taking into consideration the amount of skin cells alone that are shed, and if you really take into consideration the opinions of the experts stating that one expert is wrong ( I believe my count of experts is close to 20 stating she did not follow proper procedures/protocols) <modsnip>

 

[RayStar]

Raystar, would you like to discuss the reasons for thinking so?

There is nothing to discuss. She has been convicted of murder.

 

[Malkmus]

In your mind do you realize she is a convicted KILLER. That's on paper not in my mind.

ok This is a message board not a fact sheet. Opinions Opinions

So it's whatever on paper that makes up your decision? You know that may very well change.

 

[Malkmus]

There is nothing to discuss. She has been convicted of murder.

What a compelling argument...