Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #21

[believe09]

I do, and its not just an American thing. I remember the reaction of the British media when some British au pair, (forget her name), was on trial in the US for shaking a baby.

Matthew Eappen. I will never ever forget it. MA Court convicted nanny of second degree murder, and the judge overturned it and sent her home.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,987399,00.html

 

[belimom]

More about the attitudes: in thinking of past cases, there are several where I - and others - have been wrong.

Susan Smith: seemed completely innocent and heartbroken ---- GUILTY
Breann Rodriguez: some folks questioned her family's story, about her being on her bike then - poof! - was gone ---- INNOCENT
Marc Klaas: even he was looked at suspiciously by LE at the beginning ---- INNOCENT
(and others that I can't think of right now)

I guess that's the danger of thinking someone who is guilty or innocent should act a certain way and their stories should make sense or not to us - people who don't even know them and their normal mannerisms, etc.

It's my career, my life - I can't help but try to read people. Even so, it is still a dangerous thing when someone's life is on the line.

Okay, I think I'm off my soapbox! And maybe back on the fence...

 

[Cappuccino]

good job, she was convicted yet let go......a prime example of what happens with our friends, to keep a good relationship! And that is what happened here in this case!

She was convicted, and let go with time served, iirc. I can see how people would think its politics if the same happened here, (and the Italians did have that option).

However, they overturned the conviction on the grounds that she and RS didn't commit the crime. There was no need for them to do that in order to keep a good relationship with the US, so rightly or wrongly, I think they just gave their honestly held opinion on the case.

 

[sayd]

I'm enjoying Jane Velez Mitchell cover this case tonight. She's doing a great job. The Italian system is quite a bit different than ours, very interesting. The interrogation thing does bother me. Also very interesting that the prosecuter has been convicted of embellishing crimes. I think a prosecuter who did that here would be history.

I hope Amanda arrives home safely and quickly! Very happy for her parents tonight and her family!

 

[~n/t~]

Were RS parents in court?

 

[gitana1]

To be completely honest, it was her attitude. Both of their attitudes. Now that doesn't make them guilty, does it? But we are all human and it does color the lens through which I interpret everything else that was presented.

In recently reading more about Mignini, I'm starting to back off a little from being 100% of AK and RS's guilt.

I just cannot for the life of me understand why someone who is being falsely accused doesn't show more emotion or sobbing pleas for justice/release? I guess it's conceivable that after awhile some sort of desensitization occurs: if she was living with these accusations day in and day out, then after awhile you've cried a river and may not have much left. Whereas we only saw glimpses of her and for me I couldn't understand why she wasn't sobbing each time. But I guess one would have to learn how to survive on a day-to-day basis and not grovel in self-pity constantly.

Today is the first time I have seen any emotion that to me - a psychologist - indicated genuine fear and an understanding of the severity of the situation.

I have been given a lot to think about recently and I'll take it all to heart. I am still leaning towards guilty, though, but I do understand how RG could be 100% responsible alone. The story of a robbery gone bad and turned into a rape/murder makes sense and I could see how that could have happened.

God bless the Kercher family - the number one victims here. Well, number two: Meredith was number one...

No, I'm with you. Their attitudes, especially hers, that's what convinced me from the get go. Bu I began to dig in a bit deeper and started to feel something was wrong.

I now feel some of the behaviors were exaggerated or taken out of context. But they are still very off to me. She tries to explain it as a young person who was never touched by tragedy before or suffering, was in shock, didn't know how to respond.

My family is from Spain (dad's side), and we show emotion - a lot more than Americans. More like Italians. I never understood people being stoic at funerals or when their kid goes missing. I began to think some of that is cultural. Americans tend to be a bit more stoic than southern Europeans. Still, Knox's behavior was very troubling to me.

Nevertheless, again, as I said, I think context is important. In retrospect, for example, seeing her make out with her boyfriend was not at all like I had heard. It was just a little peck and her face looked sad. I think immaturity may have played a part in her seeming lack of concern, though. I remember being a little kid and my mom got a call that my grandma in Spain had died. She broke down at the kitchen counter. My older brothers and I inexplicably ran and hid under the piano, where we laughed. I don't know why.

That Christmas, my mom gave my dad a photo album of his mother. The last picture was of her waving goodby - gorgeous photo of her hand outstretched waving a handkerchief. My strong old dad started clouding up, began to cry and then screamed at God. We didn't laugh then. We got mad at my mo for upsetting him. But we began to understand the magnitude.

Granted, I was only 8. Knox was 20 (though dealing with the murder of a non-relative). That is a lot older but she may have been very sheltered previously, spoiled, etc. It's just that now that I have read the independent reviews of evidence, more about the prosecutor, etc., her weird behavior is not enough.

Regardless, while many Americans find such behavior troubling, Italians would find it much more disturbing. Such apathy is practically unheard of in Southern European cultures.

 

[darnudes]

I'm enjoying Jane Velez Mitchell cover this case tonight. She's doing a great job. The Italian system is quite a bit different than ours, very interesting. The interrogation thing does bother me. Also very interesting that the prosecuter has been convicted of embellishing crimes. I think a prosecuter who did that here would be history.

I hope Amanda arrives home safely and quickly! Very happy for her parents tonight and her family!

lol, you must have missed her comments on 'satanic theories'

 

[~n/t~]

I think RS may have more security issues than AK, imo. AK will get a welcome home party. Not so sure the public will be just as accepting of RS. He may have to hide just as much as CA.

 

[SilkySifaka]

More about the attitudes: in thinking of past cases, there are several where I - and others - have been wrong.

Susan Smith: seemed completely innocent and heartbroken ---- GUILTY
Breann Rodriguez: some folks questioned her family's story, about her being on her bike then - poof! - was gone ---- INNOCENT
Marc Klaas: even he was looked at suspiciously by LE at the beginning ---- INNOCENT
(and others that I can't think of right now)

I guess that's the danger of thinking someone who is guilty or innocent should act a certain way and their stories should make sense or not to us - people who don't even know them and their normal mannerisms, etc.

It's my career, my life - I can't help but try to read people. Even so, it is still a dangerous thing when someone's life is on the line.

Okay, I think I'm off my soapbox! And maybe back on the fence...

Now start thinking of the independent investigators reports on the forensics and you might need pillows on the fence

The Italians had a really face saving way out as well. They could have come to a decision that said the evidence was not sufficient and would have had the same result. In effect she would be out the doors tonight.

I think the fact they went further and gave the "she did not commit the crime" decision speaks volumes says alot about what I did not hear/understand or was not translated.

 

[Madeleine74]

Just heard on the NG show from Paul Ciolino (sp?) the independent investigator who has studied this case for 4 yrs that Mignini got his 'theory' of the satanic sex game gone wrong from an Italian psychic who claimed to channel the info from some long dead priest from the past.

This is the guy people have put their faith into to prosecute fairly? He's a menace to society, is what he is.

BTW, Mignini wrongfully accused US author Doug Preston of being a murderer when Preston came to Italy to write a book about an Italian serial killer there. Mignini decided that Preston must be him and accused him of (get ready for it).... .... satanic rituals leading to murder! Preston got out of the country tout de suit.

 

[belimom]

No, I'm with you. Their attitudes, especially hers, that's what convinced me from the get go. Bu I began to dig in a bit deeper and started to feel something was wrong.

I now feel some of the behaviors were exaggerated or taken out of context. But they are still very off to me. She tries to explain it as a young person who was never touched by tragedy before or suffering, was in shock, didn't know how to respond.

My family is from Spain (dad's side), and we show emotion - a lot more than Americans. More like Italians. I never understood people being stoic at funerals or when their kid goes missing. I began to think some of that is cultural. Americans tend to be a bit more stoic than southern Europeans. Still, Knox's behavior was very troubling to me.

Nevertheless, again, as I said, I think context is important. In retrospect, for example, seeing her make out with her boyfriend was not at all like I had heard. I think immaturity may have played a part in her seeming lack of concern, though. I remember being a little kid and my mom got a call that my grandma in Spain had died. She broke down at the kitchen counter. My older brothers and I inexplicably ran and hid under the piano, where we laughed. I don't know why.

That Christmas, my mom gave my dad a photo album of his mother. The last picture was of her waving goodby - gorgeous photo of her hand outstretched waving a handkerchief. My strong old dad started clouding up, began to cry and then screamed at God. We didn't laugh then. We got mad at my mo for upsetting him. But we began to understand the magnitude.

Granted, I was only 8. Knox was 20 (though dealing with the murder of a non-relative). That is a lot older but she may have been very sheltered previously, spoiled, etc. It's just that now that I have read the independent reviews of evidence, more about the prosecutor, etc., her weird behavior is not enough.

Regardless, while many Americans find such behavior troubling, Italians would find it much more disturbing. Such apathy is practically unheard of in Southern European cultures.

Thanks for adding your personal info. I agree with a lot of the cultural 'norms'. And within the cultures, there are also individual variance as well.

Even though I'm still leaning towards guilty, I thoroughly respect you and your sleuthing and your opinions, from what I've seen here and on many other cases. :seeya:

 

[Cappuccino]

@Gitana1 - You find Americans stoic?? I find them overly expressive!

Let's hope I'm never accused of a crime in Italy, they'd think I was a flat out sociopath.

 

[Rolfe]

However, they overturned the conviction on the grounds that she and RS didn't commit the crime. There was no need for them to do that in order to keep a good relationship with the US, so rightly or wrongly, I think they just gave their honestly held opinion on the case.

They also acquitted on the charge of staging the crime scene on the grounds that the crime scene was not staged. That's quite strong too.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Were RS parents in court?

For sure his dad was, he spoke after court

 

[Allusonz]

Were RS parents in court?

RS's mother died in 2006 IIRC. I believe his father remarried and yes he was in court with his sister and yes RS's father made a statement to the media

 

[ConstableCruller]

At least I'm consistent; I didn't think Louise Woodward was guilty either (watched every minute of her trial), and apparently neither did the judge who sent her on her way.

At any rate, I'm glad Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito are free for now. If I were the latter, I'd leave Italy until that rogue prosecutor gets locked up as he so richly deserves.

 

[Allusonz]

I think RS may have more security issues than AK, imo. AK will get a welcome home party. Not so sure the public will be just as accepting of RS. He may have to hide just as much as CA.

It has been stated that RS will be going to Canada to get away from Mignini et al which IMO would be a good idea at this point in time. I hope he does spend some time with his family first

 

[gitana1]

@Gitana1 - You find Americans stoic?? I find them overly expressive!

Let's hope I'm never accused of a crime in Italy, they'd think I was a flat out sociopath.

LOL! Where are you from!!! Man, I come from a family of wailers - at least the women. It's like a funeral in a third world country where they're pulling hair out and stuff. Scares the carp out of many of my American friends. They are not used to shrieking in the church! Or collapsing on the steps!

 

[~n/t~]

No, I'm with you. Their attitudes, especially hers, that's what convinced me from the get go. Bu I began to dig in a bit deeper and started to feel something was wrong.

I now feel some of the behaviors were exaggerated or taken out of context. But they are still very off to me. She tries to explain it as a young person who was never touched by tragedy before or suffering, was in shock, didn't know how to respond.

My family is from Spain (dad's side), and we show emotion - a lot more than Americans. More like Italians. I never understood people being stoic at funerals or when their kid goes missing. I began to think some of that is cultural. Americans tend to be a bit more stoic than southern Europeans. Still, Knox's behavior was very troubling to me.

Nevertheless, again, as I said, I think context is important. In retrospect, for example, seeing her make out with her boyfriend was not at all like I had heard. I think immaturity may have played a part in her seeming lack of concern, though. I remember being a little kid and my mom got a call that my grandma in Spain had died. She broke down at the kitchen counter. My older brothers and I inexplicably ran and hid under the piano, where we laughed. I don't know why.

That Christmas, my mom gave my dad a photo album of his mother. The last picture was of her waving goodby - gorgeous photo of her hand outstretched waving a handkerchief. My strong old dad started clouding up, began to cry and then screamed at God. We didn't laugh then. We got mad at my mo for upsetting him. But we began to understand the magnitude.

Granted, I was only 8. Knox was 20 (though dealing with the murder of a non-relative). That is a lot older but she may have been very sheltered previously, spoiled, etc. It's just that now that I have read the independent reviews of evidence, more about the prosecutor, etc., her weird behavior is not enough.

Regardless, while many Americans find such behavior troubling, Italians would find it much more disturbing. Such apathy is practically unheard of in Southern European cultures.

With respect, I don't think culture has anything to do with it. Odd behaviour after a crime especially a murder is what criminal profilers and psychiatrists look at all the time. CA's behaviour after knowing her daughter was dead was considered odd regardless what nationality or country you're from (as an example). AK's behaviour was just as odd.

 

[SilkySifaka]

No, I'm with you. Their attitudes, especially hers, that's what convinced me from the get go. Bu I began to dig in a bit deeper and started to feel something was wrong.

I now feel some of the behaviors were exaggerated or taken out of context. But they are still very off to me. She tries to explain it as a young person who was never touched by tragedy before or suffering, was in shock, didn't know how to respond.

My family is from Spain (dad's side), and we show emotion - a lot more than Americans. More like Italians. I never understood people being stoic at funerals or when their kid goes missing. I began to think some of that is cultural. Americans tend to be a bit more stoic than southern Europeans. Still, Knox's behavior was very troubling to me.

Nevertheless, again, as I said, I think context is important. In retrospect, for example, seeing her make out with her boyfriend was not at all like I had heard. It was just a little peck and her face looked sad. I think immaturity may have played a part in her seeming lack of concern, though. I remember being a little kid and my mom got a call that my grandma in Spain had died. She broke down at the kitchen counter. My older brothers and I inexplicably ran and hid under the piano, where we laughed. I don't know why.

That Christmas, my mom gave my dad a photo album of his mother. The last picture was of her waving goodby - gorgeous photo of her hand outstretched waving a handkerchief. My strong old dad started clouding up, began to cry and then screamed at God. We didn't laugh then. We got mad at my mo for upsetting him. But we began to understand the magnitude.

Granted, I was only 8. Knox was 20 (though dealing with the murder of a non-relative). That is a lot older but she may have been very sheltered previously, spoiled, etc. It's just that now that I have read the independent reviews of evidence, more about the prosecutor, etc., her weird behavior is not enough.

Regardless, while many Americans find such behavior troubling, Italians would find it much more disturbing. Such apathy is practically unheard of in Southern European cultures.

Even her attorney mentioned how much she has matured over the four years today.

When I watched the "making out" I was struck by how RS was stroking her arm, exactly as we often do when telling someone we are hugging or talking to that it will be ok. I didn't get any sense of a sexual make out session, just upset and worry while with someone you care for. But we all see things differently