Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #7

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There is no evidence that proves AK sexually assaulted or murdered MK.

There is no evidence that proves RS sexually assaulted or murdered MK.

There *is* evidence (lots of it) that proves RG sexually assaulted and murdered MK.

When it comes right down to it, those are the plain facts.
 
Why all the fuss about an interpreter if Amanda spoke Italian? Did she, or did she not, need an interpreter? If she needed an interpreter, then she was not able to provide information prior to having an interpreter. Since she did need an interpreter and stated in court that she had an interpreter, I think we have to believe that she had an interpreter. Since the interpreter was able to understand Amanda's accusations against Patrick, and Amanda reiterated the exact same accusations without any police presence or coercion, we can assume the interpretation was 100% correct.

Come on, otto. You have extraordinary language skills (particularly by American standards) and you know better. You know perfectly well that knowledge of a language--particularly comprehension of spoken speech, which in my experience is far more difficult to acquire than a reading knowledge--isn't a matter of all or none.

Yes, AK needed an interpreter. That does not mean the first hour of the interrogation was spent in silence while police waited from an English-speaking cop. They spoke, AK understood some of it and replied as best she could. This would be extremely stressful for anyone. (I find it mildly stressful speaking Spanish (a language in which I am less than fluent) to the pool man, and I'm not being accused of murder.)

Just as there are varying degrees of competency in language fluency, there are varying degrees of competency in translation. We don't know how well the Italian cop spoke English. Yes, she served as translator for the occasion. Whether she did it well, we don't know. What we do know is that she was not a neutral translator, but part of the interrogation team working to get a confession from AK. Hardly the same thing.

Amanda signed her statement, written in English, at 1:45 in the morning; two hours after the questioning began. At 11 o'clock on Nov 5 she was talking to Filomina about whether they could still be roommates, then we have the gymnastics, and then the questioning.

Amanda made no effort to retract her statements. At 1:45 she accused Patrick, at 5:45 she accused Patrick, hours later she asked for pen and paper and again accused Patrick (this statement was admissible in court), and then two weeks later, after Patrick was released from jail, she then admitted that she knew he was innocent. Funny thing is that she couldn't know he was innocent unless she was there.

BBM: this is actually not true. If one reads her statements, all three of them from that day are full of qualifications attempting to negate the lies she was telling. AK was clearly under duress (and one may argue she was under duress because she was guilty). But it was not her "master plan" to blame Lumumba and make the accusation stick. She was taking it back even as she made it. (This does not excuse her. But it tells us quite a bit as to how much credence we should give those statements, i.e., none.)

As for admitting PL was innocent, AK merely meant she knew her own statements were false. Twisting that into some slip of the tongue that proves her guilt is mere word play.

Regarding Alibis: Raffaele has stood by his claim that he does not know if Amanda was with him through the entire night, and Amanda has placed herself at the scene of the crime.

Amanda lied, as you yourself are the first to point out.

Raffaele was asleep. He can't know what AK did while he was not awake. To my knowledge, he has never said, "Oh, Amanda left at 9pm and I didn't see her again until 2." If that is what he meant, he would have said so. He did not. Because it did not happen.
 
There is no evidence that proves AK sexually assaulted or murdered MK.

There is no evidence that proves RS sexually assaulted or murdered MK.

There *is* evidence (lots of it) that proves RG sexually assaulted and murdered MK.

When it comes right down to it, those are the plain facts.

I guess that means that even though Knox let the murderer in, staged the scene, fled the scene, cleaned up the scene, left mixed DNA samples at the scene ... and more ... like failing to assist the victim or report that she needed assistance ... she must be innocent. Raffaele claims he was at home and doesn't remember if Knox was with him, so he must be innocent too.
 
BBM. We don't know how they acted; we only know what some people claim and what others have imagined. Their interrogations were not recorded (they should have been).

RS never met Rudy before. AK had met Rudy at least once before, as he was a visitor to the guys downstairs and was (supposedly) a drug connection to them. Rudy also met Meredith and apparently was attracted to her (i.e. told someone).

Don't confuse the characters ... Knox imagines things, other people report them.

So now Knox only met Rudy once? I think the trial transcripts disagree with that.
 
Don't confuse the characters ... Knox imagines things, other people report them.

So now Knox only met Rudy once? I think the trial transcripts disagree with that.

Amanda in the company of Meredith met RG ONCE which is well known by you and they BOTH were introduced!!! .!.!

She recalled seeing him once whiled employed at Le Chic but that is it as you very well know
 
Come on, otto. You have extraordinary language skills (particularly by American standards) and you know better. You know perfectly well that knowledge of a language--particularly comprehension of spoken speech, which in my experience is far more difficult to acquire than a reading knowledge--isn't a matter of all or none.

Yes, AK needed an interpreter. That does not mean the first hour of the interrogation was spent in silence while police waited from an English-speaking cop. They spoke, AK understood some of it and replied as best she could. This would be extremely stressful for anyone. (I find it mildly stressful speaking Spanish (a language in which I am less than fluent) to the pool man, and I'm not being accused of murder.)

Just as there are varying degrees of competency in language fluency, there are varying degrees of competency in translation. We don't know how well the Italian cop spoke English. Yes, she served as translator for the occasion. Whether she did it well, we don't know. What we do know is that she was not a neutral translator, but part of the interrogation team working to get a confession from AK. Hardly the same thing.



BBM: this is actually not true. If one reads her statements, all three of them from that day are full of qualifications attempting to negate the lies she was telling. AK was clearly under duress (and one may argue she was under duress because she was guilty). But it was not her "master plan" to blame Lumumba and make the accusation stick. She was taking it back even as she made it. (This does not excuse her. But it tells us quite a bit as to how much credence we should give those statements, i.e., none.)

As for admitting PL was innocent, AK merely meant she knew her own statements were false. Twisting that into some slip of the tongue that proves her guilt is mere word play.



Amanda lied, as you yourself are the first to point out.

Raffaele was asleep. He can't know what AK did while he was not awake. To my knowledge, he has never said, "Oh, Amanda left at 9pm and I didn't see her again until 2." If that is what he meant, he would have said so. He did not. Because it did not happen.

What do you mean "full of qualifications attempting to negate the lies"? What wrong with saying "everything I said was a load of rubbish?" or "what I said was a complete lie"? It's not that difficult to tell the truth ... unless one wishes to keep the truth hidden, and then maybe we have some "qualifications attempting to negate the lies".

Amanda lied and claimed that she was deprived of the necessities of life, deprived of an interpreter and physically/mentally abused for 14 hours. She was not under duress in her two hours with police, she came up with a lie about 14 hours to cover the lie she told about Patrick after two short hours with police.

Amanda did absolutely nothing to assist Patrick after implicating him in a murder. She told her mother that Patrick was not involved, and then they both kept the secret ... which is really disgusting. I challenge you to find any information supporting the claim that Amanda went to police and told them that Patrick was not involved in the murder ... there simply isn't any.
 
Don't confuse the characters ... Knox imagines things, other people report them.

So now Knox only met Rudy once? I think the trial transcripts disagree with that.

Really? IMAGINE that
 
Italy has a completely different history, culture, justice system, political system, education system and people than the United States. That does not make them Martians, it makes them people that live in another country. And it's great to hear that people in the United States take jury duty seriously. Let's give people in Italy some credit and assume that they too take jury duty seriously ... that they do not base verdicts on newspaper articles. Now if we can also stop assuming that courts in Italy should abide by US laws, it will be easier to interpret the trial and decisions in Italy.

That works both ways
 
Amanda in the company of Meredith met RG ONCE which is well known by you and they BOTH were introduced!!! .!.!

She recalled seeing him once whiled employed at Le Chic but that is it as you very well know

This is from one section of the testimony. If you've read the testimony, you know that it was quite a struggle to get facts out of Knox ... meaning, read the entire testimony for all the details.

CP: You know Rudy Hermann Guede?

AK: Not much.

CP: In what circumstances did you meet him?

AK: I was in the center, near the church. It was during an evening when I met the guys that lived underneath in the apartment underneath us, and while I was mingling with them, they introduced me to Rudy.
____________________

CP: Did you also know him, or at least see him, in the pub "Le Chic", Rudy?

AK: I think I saw him there once.
____________________

CP: Listen, this party at the neighbors, it took place in the second half of October? What period, end of October? 2007?

AK: I think it was more in the middle of October.
 
None of the labs in the US disclose what they do during testing because it is proprietary information, yet the biologist says the opposite. I wonder why he is saying something that contradicts information published in the prestigious Nature magazine?

"Critics’ fears are confounded by an unwillingness of the labs that use the technique to reveal their guidelines for interpreting results. Labs should be forced to disclose details, says Budowle. Given the technique’s reproducibility problems, he argues it is imperative that these protocols are robust and reliable. But “none of the labs disclose what they do. They say it is proprietary information,” he says."

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100317/pdf/464347a.pdf

Definition of PROPRIETARY
1: one that possesses, owns, or holds exclusive right to something; specifically : proprietor 1
2: something that is used, produced, or marketed under exclusive legal right of the inventor or maker; specifically : a drug (as a patent medicine) that is protected by secrecy, patent, or copyright against

free competition as to name, product, composition, or process of manufacture
3: a business secretly owned by and run as a cover for an intelligence organization

Prosecutors in the US must disclose all evidence including .fsa files

Critics should be quite fearfull. I would hate for a person you SNEEZED on be the victim of a homicide and you be accused as your DNA would be on their clothing
 
Oops, now Amanda met Rudy a few times (later in the transcript):

GB: Miss Knox, you are accused together with Raffaele Sollecito of murdering Meredith together with Rudy Guede. I would like you to tell me exactly what kind of relations you had with Rudy Guede. You already said that you saw each other few times, but I would like to ask for more information about this aspect.

AK: I didn't have any relations with Rudy Guede. I knew him in the sense that someone said "Look, this is Rudy, this is Amanda." I saw him around a few times. But I didn't have any relations with him.

GB: Can you tell me if you frequented each other, if you went out together? Because you said that once you saw him at a party.


And a little later in the transcript:

CP: Rudy asserts that he saw you in VIA DELLA PERGOLA-- [raising voice to speak over further objections]:

When asked if she knew Rudy, we go from "not much", to they'd met "a few times" (keeping in mind that she'd only been in the country a couple of weeks), to partied together, to Rudy placing Knox at the scene of the crime.
 
This is from one section of the testimony. If you've read the testimony, you know that it was quite a struggle to get facts out of Knox ... meaning, read the entire testimony for all the details.

CP: You know Rudy Hermann Guede?

AK: Not much.

CP: In what circumstances did you meet him?

AK: I was in the center, near the church. It was during an evening when I met the guys that lived underneath in the apartment underneath us, and while I was mingling with them, they introduced me to Rudy.
____________________

CP: Did you also know him, or at least see him, in the pub "Le Chic", Rudy?

AK: I think I saw him there once.
____________________

CP: Listen, this party at the neighbors, it took place in the second half of October? What period, end of October? 2007?

AK: I think it was more in the middle of October.

If you would continue further in the testimony and get it accurate they all then went back to the boys appartment including MK and ALL smoked cannabis
 
Why all the fuss about an interpreter if Amanda spoke Italian? Did she, or did she not, need an interpreter? If she needed an interpreter, then she was not able to provide information prior to having an interpreter. Since she did need an interpreter and stated in court that she had an interpreter, I think we have to believe that she had an interpreter. Since the interpreter was able to understand Amanda's accusations against Patrick, and Amanda reiterated the exact same accusations without any police presence or coercion, we can assume the interpretation was 100% correct.

Amanda signed her statement, written in English, at 1:45 in the morning; two hours after the questioning began. At 11 o'clock on Nov 5 she was talking to Filomina about whether they could still be roommates, then we have the gymnastics, and then the questioning.

Amanda made no effort to retract her statements. At 1:45 she accused Patrick, at 5:45 she accused Patrick, hours later she asked for pen and paper and again accused Patrick (this statement was admissible in court), and then two weeks later, after Patrick was released from jail, she then admitted that she knew he was innocent. Funny thing is that she couldn't know he was innocent unless she was there.

Regarding Alibis: Raffaele has stood by his claim that he does not know if Amanda was with him through the entire night, and Amanda has placed herself at the scene of the crime.

It is my belief that you know about DIALECTS
 
Definition of PROPRIETARY
1: one that possesses, owns, or holds exclusive right to something; specifically : proprietor 1
2: something that is used, produced, or marketed under exclusive legal right of the inventor or maker; specifically : a drug (as a patent medicine) that is protected by secrecy, patent, or copyright against

free competition as to name, product, composition, or process of manufacture
3: a business secretly owned by and run as a cover for an intelligence organization

Prosecutors in the US must disclose all evidence including .fsa files

Critics should be quite fearfull. I would hate for a person you SNEEZED on be the victim of a homicide and you be accused as your DNA would be on their clothing

My point is that the link with the knife that you've posted several times has the biologist claiming that LNC DNA analysis is completely transparent in the US, but according to the prestigious Nature magazine, the methods for analysis are not made available and are proprietary. I'm wondering whether the biologist knows what he's talking about since he contradicts respected published information.
 
Gee, otto, why do you suppose Great Britain bans almost all pre-trial publicity? Why are jurors ever sequestered? Why are gag orders ever imposed on trial principals?

The answer is that all or nearly all countries recognize that it is difficult-to-impossible for jurors to confine their focus to trial evidence alone. Even in Italy, there are rules of evidence, a recognition that jurors can be unfairly swayed and some care must be taken with the info that is put before them.

As I said, I've had good experiences on juries; but the experiences were good because whenever anybody mentioned something that was not part of the formal trial evidence, there was always someone else to gently remind everyone that we couldn't consider anything but the evidence presented (and our own common sense). In discussions here at WS, other posters have described very different experiences with juries where one or more people essentially bullied the others or insisted their prejudices were facts.

It happens.

Let's indeed give people in Italy some credit and assume they are human beings. They aren't supermen just because they returned the verdict you like.

As for demanding Italy conform to U.S. law, I don't know who has done that. Anyone is entitled, however, to believe in his own standards of justice (even while understanding that Italy isn't necessarily going to conform to his standards). And anyone is entitled to decide that Italy (or any other country) falls short of true fairness, just as most of us are entitled to believe that public beheadings in Saudi Arabia are barbaric.

Thank you for pointing out that there is a GAG order imposed on reporting of such things in the UK

I to would like to know why
 
My point is that the link with the knife that you've posted several times has the biologist claiming that LNC DNA analysis is completely transparent in the US, but according to the prestigious Nature magazine, the methods for analysis are not made available and are proprietary. I'm wondering whether the biologist knows what he's talking about since he contradicts respected published information.

Maybe that would be true if the article was not discussing LCN DNA which is in fact what they are discussing
 
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