Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #7

[Allusonz]

Is the biologist not discussing the DNA on the knife?

You mean Dr. Greg Hampikian? The DNA specialist? Who is the Director of the Idaho Innocence Project?

 

[otto]

well that would so explain why so many of us were perplexed on how his sentence was determined but such strange numbers

Rudy's sentence reduction was not the least bit perplexing. He was sentenced to 30 years but when his co-conspirators were given sentences of 24 years, his sentence was reduced to match that sentence.

Then, because Rudy opted for the fast track trial, he was guaranteed the reduction (by law) of having 1/3 taken off his sentence. That meant that the 24 years was reduced by 1/3 to equal 16. That is Rudy's sentence ... a very straight forward calculation.

 

[otto]

You mean Dr. Greg Hampikian? The DNA specialist? Who is the Director of the Idaho Innocence Project?

Yes, the man that was introduced in the clip you keep posting ... he was introduced as a biologist.

 

[Allusonz]

Italy has a completely different history, culture, justice system, political system, education system and people than the United States. That does not make them Martians, it makes them people that live in another country. And it's great to hear that people in the United States take jury duty seriously. Let's give people in Italy some credit and assume that they too take jury duty seriously ... that they do not base verdicts on newspaper articles. Now if we can also stop assuming that courts in Italy should abide by US laws, it will be easier to interpret the trial and decisions in Italy.

Surprisingly while all may be true, but in the end we are only human beings and even human beings make mistakes...i am famous for them :giggle:

I am sure flourish could vouch for me and my seeming indiscretions in Perugia of which I have nooooooooooooooooo memory of after ONE bottle of wine

Of course it might of thinned my blood out to much!!!

 

[Allusonz]

Yes, the man that was introduced in the clip you keep posting ... he was introduced as a biologist.

Dang and even criminal justice, some people just have the SMARTS

 

[Allusonz]

for those of you that might be interested

Special Agent John Douglas

“Amanda is innocent—I’m convinced of it...The Italian police completely contaminated the crime scene..."

He is very highly regarded!!!

Special Agent John Douglas, a legendary figure in law enforcement and the model for the Scott Glenn character in The Silence of the Lambs. As chief of the FBI’s Investigative Support Unit Douglas is the man who ushered in a new age in behavioral science and criminal profiling.
'Robert K. Ressler entered the new program and authored the second book published on the unit, 'Whoever Fights Monsters'. John Douglas, who joined in 1979 and became unit chief, followed that with the bestselling book Mindhunter.'"
Together they authored the textbook 'Crime Classification Manual' which was given the 1994 award for 'Significant Contribution to Law Enforcement Literature' by the Intl Assoc of Law Enforcement Analysts."

 

[otto]

for those of you that might be interested

Special Agent John Douglas

“Amanda is innocent—I’m convinced of it...The Italian police completely contaminated the crime scene..."

He is very highly regarded!!!

Special Agent John Douglas, a legendary figure in law enforcement and the model for the Scott Glenn character in The Silence of the Lambs. As chief of the FBI’s Investigative Support Unit Douglas is the man who ushered in a new age in behavioral science and criminal profiling.
'Robert K. Ressler entered the new program and authored the second book published on the unit, 'Whoever Fights Monsters'. John Douglas, who joined in 1979 and became unit chief, followed that with the bestselling book Mindhunter.'"
Together they authored the textbook 'Crime Classification Manual' which was given the 1994 award for 'Significant Contribution to Law Enforcement Literature' by the Intl Assoc of Law Enforcement Analysts."

So ... he's an expert in the US, or is he an expert in Italy?

 

[otto]

Surprisingly while all may be true, but in the end we are only human beings and even human beings make mistakes...i am famous for them :giggle:

I am sure flourish could vouch for me and my seeming indiscretions in Perugia of which I have nooooooooooooooooo memory of after ONE bottle of wine

Of course it might of thinned my blood out to much!!!

Is there any reason to believe that the jury in Italy acted improperly? Has someone come forward claiming that jurors discussed the case with friends in order to arrive at a decision, or that they admitted making a decision based on what was written in the newspaper?

When a jury is not sequested in the US, is it assumed that their verdict was based on media publications? If so, it is difficult to believe that any trial can occur in the US without the jury being sequestered.

 

[missyjane77]

So ... he's an expert in the US, or is he an expert in Italy?

Does it matter?

 

[otto]

Does it matter?

Sort of. If one of his complaints is that there was a lack of transparency in the testing, and the biologist uses as an argument that everyone shares their test methods - implying that this particular lab has been secretive - then he has a faulty agument. I have posted the pdf article from Nature Magazine where it is clearly stated that labs do not share their test methods, as it is proprietary information. The lab is not being secretive or withholding information, but is instead doing what is commonly practiced by peers.

In the US, that may be okay ... to verbally contradict published information and be viewed as an expert, but apparently in Italy that is not an accepted argument ... so far.

 

[Nova]

Amanda slept with one of the guys downstairs (she can thank him for that cold sore she was sporting in court)....

Wow, that is tacky! More importantly, what is the source of this information and how could anyone be sure? Given the ease with which oral herpes can be transmitted, how could anyone know for sure where AK got it?

...and Raffaele even though she hardly knew them ... so that says to me "fast friends". Maybe she hadn't slept with Rudy, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't one of the first people she met and socialized with after arriving in Perugia. She knew Rudy better than she knew Raffaele in terms of having known him for a longer period of time.

Nice try. You start with AK knew RG first and then slide into AK knew RG "better." The one does not prove the other, my friend.

The prank wasn't invented by the prosecutor, that was based on information from someone that knew Knox in Seattle ... a previous victim of her pranks. You can research information that came out in 2007 to get those details - I do not intend to research that to satisfy anyone's curiosity ... take it for what it's worth.

Not much, IMO. Not unless it involved rounding up a group of guys to gang rape one of her friends. I'm think that never happened in Seattle or I would have heard about it.

Re-enactments, whether real or virtual, are nothing new. Crime re-enactments are commonly used all over the world.

Yes, but there are rules about re-enactments, the primary one being that whatever is shown in a re-enactment must be reasonably supported by direct testimony or circumstantial evidence. In this case, the court clearly erred. (An error, BTW, that could have happened in the U.S. This isn't Italy bashing.)

 

[Nova]

I guess that means that even though Knox let the murderer in, staged the scene, fled the scene, cleaned up the scene, left mixed DNA samples at the scene ... and more ... like failing to assist the victim or report that she needed assistance ... she must be innocent. Raffaele claims he was at home and doesn't remember if Knox was with him, so he must be innocent too.

The evidence for the charges on your list is weak at best, but even if all of those claims were true, AK isn't guilty of murder. She might be guilty of failing to aid or obstruction of justice, but not murder.

 

[otto]

Wow, that is tacky! More importantly, what is the source of this information and how could anyone be sure? Given the ease with which oral herpes can be transmitted, how could anyone know for sure where AK got it?



Nice try. You start with AK knew RG first and then slide into AK knew RG "better." The one does not prove the other, my friend.



Not much, IMO. Not unless it involved rounding up a group of guys to gang rape one of her friends. I'm think that never happened in Seattle or I would have heard about it.



Yes, but there are rules about re-enactments, the primary one being that whatever is shown in a re-enactment must be reasonably supported by direct testimony or circumstantial evidence. In this case, the court clearly erred. (An error, BTW, that could have happened in the U.S. This isn't Italy bashing.)

It is tacky ... hard to believe that Knox was so careless. Like I said ... take it for what it's worth ... you'll have to go back to 2007 and start reading.

I don't slide at all. Amanda met Rudy Guede a "few times" according to Knox, socialized with him in a private home (with 4 others) and smoked hashish with him. They had also seen each other at the clubs. They both knew they had a common interest in drugs, and were first introduced by the guys downstairs - Rudy played basketball with the guys and they were friends. She knew Rudy longer (not better) than she knew Raffaele, and she became fast friends with Raffaele - basically moving in with him the day they met.

I haven't heard anything about a group of guys, as far as I know this murder was committed by a woman and two men. Strange as it may sound, young
women committing bizarre murder in the US is not that rare.

That's right, the re-enactment was based on the facts.

 

[otto]

The evidence for the charges on your list is weak at best, but even if all of those claims were true, AK isn't guilty of murder. She might be guilty of failing to aid or obstruction of justice, but not murder.

You don't think there's a bit of a problem with someone that locks the door and throws away the key while knowing that the person in the room is bleeding to death?

Hopefully future experts will say something that can be corroborated.

 

[Nova]

What do you mean "full of qualifications attempting to negate the lies"? What wrong with saying "everything I said was a load of rubbish?" or "what I said was a complete lie"? It's not that difficult to tell the truth ... unless one wishes to keep the truth hidden, and then maybe we have some "qualifications attempting to negate the lies".

Because saying so directly is an admission of perjury. As we now know, a false accusation nets one at least a year in jail in Italy.

Amanda lied and claimed that she was deprived of the necessities of life, deprived of an interpreter and physically/mentally abused for 14 hours. She was not under duress in her two hours with police, she came up with a lie about 14 hours to cover the lie she told about Patrick after two short hours with police.

The fact that you can say "she was not under duress in her two hours with police" shows you are either simply saying black is white and night is day for argument's sake, or you really don't understand police interrogations.

Do you ever ask yourself WHY AK accused PL? What did she hope to gain? For all she knew, he had an airtight alibi--in fact, he did!

Amanda did absolutely nothing to assist Patrick after implicating him in a murder. She told her mother that Patrick was not involved, and then they both kept the secret ... which is really disgusting. I challenge you to find any information supporting the claim that Amanda went to police and told them that Patrick was not involved in the murder ... there simply isn't any.

What I said was that her statements retract the accusations even as she makes them. And you know exactly what I mean. That Perugia LE took her statements as sufficiently compelling to lock up an innocent man ought to tell you something about the incompetence of Perugia LE. But that would interfere with your favorite narrative wherein AK is the Wicked Witch of the West and the source of all villainy.

 

[Nova]

Oops, now Amanda met Rudy a few times (later in the transcript):

GB: Miss Knox, you are accused together with Raffaele Sollecito of murdering Meredith together with Rudy Guede. I would like you to tell me exactly what kind of relations you had with Rudy Guede. You already said that you saw each other few times, but I would like to ask for more information about this aspect.

AK: I didn't have any relations with Rudy Guede. I knew him in the sense that someone said "Look, this is Rudy, this is Amanda." I saw him around a few times. But I didn't have any relations with him.

GB: Can you tell me if you frequented each other, if you went out together? Because you said that once you saw him at a party.

And a little later in the transcript:

CP: Rudy asserts that he saw you in VIA DELLA PERGOLA-- [raising voice to speak over further objections]:

When asked if she knew Rudy, we go from "not much", to they'd met "a few times" (keeping in mind that she'd only been in the country a couple of weeks), to partied together, to Rudy placing Knox at the scene of the crime.

You are misquoting her. She said she "saw him around a few times." That doesn't even tell us if she spoke with him, much less that she "met him." It is entirely consistent with her testimony that she didn't know him well or "much". In fact, "seeing someone around" in American English distinctly means not by design; i.e., AK did not intentionally meet with Rudy Guede. They were casually introduced at a party and she "saw him around" a small town.

Hardly a ripe candidate for an on-the-spot rape/murder conspiracy.

Knox is clear: she had no relationship with Rudy Guede. To my knowledge, there is no evidence to the contrary.

 

[Allusonz]

It is tacky ... hard to believe that Knox was so careless. Like I said ... take it for what it's worth ... you'll have to go back to 2007 and start reading.

I don't slide at all. Amanda met Rudy Guede a "few times" according to Knox, socialized with him in a private home (with 4 others) and smoked hashish with him. They had also seen each other at the clubs. They both knew they had a common interest in drugs, and were first introduced by the guys downstairs - Rudy played basketball with the guys and they were friends. She knew Rudy longer (not better) than she knew Raffaele, and she became fast friends with Raffaele - basically moving in with him the day they met.

I haven't heard anything about a group of guys, as far as I know this murder was committed by a woman and two men. Strange as it may sound, young
women committing bizarre murder in the US is not that rare.

That's right, the re-enactment was based on the facts.

Your right TACKY, TOTALLY INCORRECT INFORMATION

The virus can only be transmitted by close personal contact such as kissing. Most people will have come into contact with the virus between the ages of three and five but will not show any symptoms until after puberty.

HSV invades the cells of the epidermis, the outer layer of the skin, causing fluid-filled blisters to appear. The virus travels from the epidermis along the nerve paths to the roots of the nerves where it becomes inactive.

A weakening of the body's defences, due to a severe cold for example, can lead to a reactivation of the virus and a return of the blisters.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/coldsores.htm

You get the first episode of herpes infection from another person who has an active lesion. Shared eating utensils, razors and towels, as well as kissing, may spread herpes simplex virus type 1.


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cold-sore/DS00358/DSECTION=causes


The virus that causes cold sores is known as the herpes simplex virus (HSV). There are two types of HSV, type I and type II. Cold sores are usually caused by type I. Herpes simplex infections are contagious. The virus is spread from person to person by kissing or other close contact with sores or even from contact with apparently normal skin that is shedding the virus. Infected saliva is also a means of transmitting the virus. People are most contagious when they have active blister-like sores

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/cold_sores/page2_em.htm


The herpes simplex virus, or 'cold sore virus', is highly contagious and can be easily passed from person to person by close direct contact. Once someone has been exposed to the virus, it remains dormant (inactive) most of the time.

However, every so often the virus is activated by certain triggers, causing an outbreak of cold sores. The triggers that cause cold sores vary from person to person. Some people have frequently recurring cold sores, two to three times a year for example, while others have one cold sore and never have another. Some people never get cold sores because the virus never becomes active


In newborn babies or people with weakened immune systems, cold sores can be life threatening

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cold-sore/Pages/Introduction.aspx


Herpes simplex is most easily transmitted by direct contact with a lesion or the body fluid of an infected individual. Transmission may also occur through skin-to-skin contact during periods of asymptomatic shedding. Barrier protection methods are the most reliable method of preventing transmission of herpes, but they merely reduce rather than eliminate risk. Oral herpes is easily diagnosed if the patient presents with visible sores or ulcers


Infection usually occurs in childhood when someone's kissed by a family member who has a cold sore. The virus passes through the skin, travels up a nerve and hides in the nerve root until it's activated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/coldsores1.shtml


Cold sores are a skin infection caused by the herpes simplex virus. Most people are infected in childhood but do not experience any symptoms. Some people with the virus experience cold sores, which are fluid-filled blisters. People with cold sores can transmit the virus through saliva or by contact with the sores

People with cold sores should wash their hands after touching their cold sore and should be especially careful to avoid touching their own eyes after touching their cold sore. It is the fluid contained in the blisters that is considered to be infectious. People with cold sores should also avoid sharing:
Toothbrushes
Drinking glasses or bottles
Cutlery
Towels or other personal items.
They should also avoid:
Close contact (such as kissing and hugging) with newborn and young babies
Kissing others
Close contact with children with burns or eczema
Close contact with people with suppressed immune systems

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Cold_sores

 

[Allusonz]

So ... he's an expert in the US, or is he an expert in Italy?

Hampikian, a forensic DNA expert, Boise State biology professor, is in high demand by cops, prosecutors and

inmates alike for his skill at obtaining and analyzing DNA evidence. Hampikian directs the Idaho Innocence

Project, part of the now-international network of groups looking to DNA evidence to assist wrongfully

convicted prisoners. As a scientist, and the only Innocence Project director with a scientific background,

Hampikian assists victims and suspects in getting to the bottom of their cases.


ACADEMIC DEGREES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•Postdoctoral Associate, Worcester Foundation for Experimental Biology, 1992
•NSF International Centers of Excellence Postdoctoral Award, 1990-91
with Jennifer Graves, La Trobe University, Australia
•Ph.D., University of Connecticut, Genetics, 1990
•M.S., University of Connecticut, Genetics, 1986
•B.S., University of Connecticut, Biology, 1982
Professional Positions

•Professor, Biology, and Criminal Justice, Boise State University, 2006
•Director of the Idaho Innocence Project, 2006
•Associate Professor, Biology, and Criminal Justice, Boise State University, 2004-2005
•Professor, Biology, Clayton State University (CSU), 1993-2004
•Board Member, Georgia Innocence Project, DNA expert, 2003-present
•Grants Coordinator for the School of Arts and Sciences (CSU), 2003-2004
•Biology Coordinator, Natural Science Department, (CSU) 2001-2002
•Visiting Research Faculty, National Science Foundation, Georgia Tech,
Biochemistry Department, 1997-98
•Visiting Scientist, Emory University and The Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention (CDC), Atlanta, 1994-95
•Research Assistant, Yale University Medical School, Dermatology, 1983-84

http://boisestate.edu/biology/hampikianoldweb/hampikian.shtml

 

[otto]

Any comment on the bigger picture? I've seen questions asking for the one point that tipped the scales ... but anyone that has followed the case knows that it was a circumstantial case supported by DNA evidence.

Rudy was one of the people that Amanda befriended when she arrived in Perugia. She later met Raffaele and quickly befriended him too. She also befriended one of the guys that lived in the downstairs flat. It's interesting to note that one thing all of Amanda's new friends had in common was illegal drug use. Chances are that if she were not roommates with Meredith, they would never have met - as Meredith was not drawn to her as a friend, they had different social circles, and did not attend the same school. For Amanda to get together with two guys that she had come to know while getting stoned in Perugia is nothing strange ... she had been in Perugia less than a month and they were her first friends (Meredith was distancing herself from Knox). Meredith and Knox both spoke English, but they had little else in common.

The two men met through Amanda. They most likely consumed drugs together ... since they all like drugs. They did not enter a conspiracy, but instead there is the possibility that Amanda decided to play a prank on Meredith (she was known to pull sick pranks on people when she lived in Seattle) and got Rudy and Raffaele on board. After letting Rudy and Raffaele in through the front door, it's possible they smoked some more, or drank some more, and then decided to have some fun with Meredith. Meredith was tired; having been out late celebrating Halloween the previous evening, and had borrowed a textbook to prepare for an exam. She had to return the textbook the following day. Meredith was probably in no mood for Amanda bringing men to the cottage. It was her home, not a party house for Knox to use while she lived with Raffaele. According to Rudy, Meredith, who had rent money in her room but had not yet given it to Filomina, confronted Amanda about missing money. We don't know if this is true. Something went wrong, whether it was a prank, or Meredith confronted Amanda (men visiting, noise, missing money???) which ultimately led to Meredith's assault and murder. The three then took Meredith's two cell phones and ran away. It looks as though Rudy ran home (the clamouring up the metal staircase while the other footsteps ran away), changed and then went clubbing, while Amanda and Raffaele probably smooched a bit, and then decided to return to the cottage and clean up the scene. There was reportedly no activity on Raffaele's computer at this time.

It looks as though they took the lamp from Amanda's room and put it on the floor to look for something. It was also discussed, long ago, that the blood pooling in Meredith was on her shoulder, yet she was found in a prone position covered with a duvet - suggesting that she was moved after she died. At some point, Amanda and Raffaele took the keys, locked the bedroom door, staged a break-in but ransacked the room before breaking the window (another oops), cleaned up and left.

When they realized they'd left the lamp in the room, they tried to break down the door but only cracked it. When Filomina and police arrived, Amanda was tossing between frantically running around the cottage looking for the boys (even though she first denied and then admitted that she knew they were away) or ways to get into Meredith's room and claiming that Meredith routinely locked her bedroom door so there was no reason to break the door. Police did not want to break the door because of liability issues. Filomina disagreed with Amanda and insisted that the door be broken, at which time everyone was huddled around the door except for Raffaele and Amanda ... who were in the kitchen ... while a friend of Filomina broke down the door to find Meredith on the floor with only one foot exposed under the duvet.

 

[Allusonz]

Is the biologist not discussing the DNA on the knife?

As well as a SCIENTIST, besides DNA expert, FORENSIC expert, BIOLOGIST, need i go on?